Big chain nursery ok?

[theotherfossilsister]

Are big chain nurseries ok? The only one we have been offered is Busy Bees. I liked the idea of somewhere not a chain so we wouldn't have the layers on management in the way. I'm also maybe bring hesitant as I want more time with my baby, but realistically we ought to send him in August

What is it about the management structure that bothers you?

On the plus side - if there are shortages of staff at one nursery they can sometimes move them around between branches.

It will be fine, probably more flexible and better organised

Ultimately it depends on the staff and how they interact with your child.

We used a nursery part of the old station group and they were great. Like another poster said if there's sickness/issues with the venue they can move them to different locations nearby.

DP works at a Busy Bees and a friend's child goes there too. Layers of management have been helpful for both the staff and the parents, from what I've heard. Parents know exactly who to go to if there's an issue and as the manager is not in the room with the staff regularly, she's more objective and able to tackle issues head-on without worrying about her own personal friendships/loyalties.

As there are area directors etc and an added layer of accountability, standards are high as they want consistency throughout all their nurseries. Issues (in this case problems in the kitchen but I can't see why it wouldn't be true of rooms etc as well) are identified and dealt with promptly to maintain the expected standard.

Also, consider that there will be consistent policies and procedures that you can refer to if there's ever a problem and you will have a clear chain of command that you can escalate through (though we of course hope that will never be necessary!)

I too had an inexplicable prejudice against nursery chains but I'm a bit of a convert now!

Thank you. I think it's because in big chains a lot is about following procedures rather than looking at individual situations/children. I don't know. I'm probably being silly

@CremeEggsForBreakfast thank you, I love the idea it's helpful rather than obstructive. Maybe it is an irrational prejudice. I also think I loved the little family run one and sort of had my heart set on it.

Can you think of any examples? The procedures are there to help them. So it would be things like accident forms, evacuation procedures, sickness procedures, food handling.

All things a good independent nursery should have

You will get a lot more variability in small nurseries though, for that reason.

For example when you say about 'looking at individual situations', you are talking about individual staff and nurseries making decisions without so much behind them in terms of guidance and policies.

They might be really good decisions (unrestricted by beauracracy) - or in some cases, they might be really bad decisions (staff who don't know what they're doing).

You roll the dice a bit to be honest, but doing your research and going to look around helps a lot of course.

In a big chain, yes you might get a more 'generic' approach and they might be more middling quality because they might have more children. You might not get the super outstanding individualised care (but you might be surprised!) But the advantage is that, with the procedures and training that they have, you will hopefully avoid the 'really bad' end of small independents with less knowledgeable/ experienced staff making it up as they go along.

It can be a bit swings and roundabouts. If you go with a smaller independent nursery, do your research because it could be great or it could be awful. Whereas a big chain will almost definitely be a decent, safe nursery, if not spectacular.

Those all sound like positives. I'm probably just nervous. We will meet the nursery manager on Thursday so we can ask things then.

I just don't want very stringent, this is how we do it, type rules.

I know nothing about Busy Bees but my DS attends a nursery that’s part of a massive group of nurseries, schools and colleges and I couldn’t say a bad worse against it. I would have thought that you want them to have clearly defined procedures and follow them- that way you’ll know exactly what the absence policy is, how much time the kids will spend playing outside, when exactly they move them up to the next room, how they support potty training etc. etc. - it’s all positive to have this stuff spelled out!

Oh! The other plus is the amount of training Busy Bees staff have. It's not just the standard first aid and safeguarding but all sorts of other areas that I now typically cannot remember 😂 Even the chef has to complete them all!

So I'd say that whilst there are concrete procedures that must be followed, they mean things are communicated consistently.

From what I can see, it doesn't come at the expense of the staff being aware of and responsive to individual children and their needs. It means that all staff know exactly what they're looking for and will respond to situations in a consistent fashion. I can't say for certain, but I imagine they will have a huge bank of resources and experience to draw on so, for example, if a child is bereaved they can ask their partner nurseries for their experiences.

I totally see what you mean about small/independent/family-run places having a different atmosphere and feeling perhaps more intimate but I think it's a case of swapping one set of benefits for another rather than one being better than the other overall.

Some big chain nurseries are good. I've worked in 4 busy Bees as supply staff. Quality varied from just about OK to...I don't want to get sued. Is it really Busy Bees or nothing?

Also worked at a Busy Bees, not worried about being sued. It was shit and my experiences there have made sure I will never, ever send my children to a Busy Bees.

They worked 16 year old girls 40 hours a week illegally.

Staff worked 12 hour days because ratios were not adhered to. Overtime was not paid.

There was no time for paperwork beyond scribbled notes on nappies and mealtimes. I was asked to hand over to parents when I hadn't actually even seen the child in question that day and had no idea what they had done. "Just say they had 4 wet nappies and ate all their meals and played outside".

Ratios were all over the place, staff placed simply due to ratio with no knowledge of the children.

Staff turnover was horrifying. New people basically every week.

Regular, qualified staff were kept on bank staff hours and wages because it was cheaper. Jobs were going but it was easier to keep the bank staff and shuffle then between rooms as needed, because they could pay the lower wage.

I stayed two years because it was convenient and I cared about the children.

My DM worked at Busy Bees, wouldn't touch it with a barge pole after what I've heard!!
Inexperienced staff, not enough staff to child ratio adhered to and many other worrying stories.
It all seemed very much profit before anything else.

Our local Busy Bees has a poor reputation and one of the rooms closed unexpectedly last summer for around a month due to staffing issues, which suggests to me they don't treat their staff that well. The posts above suggest that too, and for me this is a fundamental aspect of choosing a nursery - I know nurseries typically don't pay that well anyway but I would want to know the staff caring for my child are being treated fairly.

Busy bees are also the first to announce that they will be extending they ratios to the new 1:5 for 2 Yr olds.

Not talking about this place specifically, but generally managers or specialists for certain roles can be a good thing because then people are working on what they are good at, eg I'd rather someone who was good with kids looking after my DC and not someone who was average at that but also good at paperwork

@BernadetteIsMySister what was the ratio before?
i thought it was already 1:5…

It's currently 1:4. In the budget Hunt announced they could rise to 5 if they wanted to but didn't have to. It doesn't start until September but busy bees were quick to conform they would be doing this.

Yes. The local nursery in our area have stated they'll be keeping the 1:4 ratios! I'm not at all surprised though that BB and soon others will go 1:5, it makes financial sense, especially if the funding isn't covering costs.

With that.OP check all the hidden/extra costs. Do they charge a materials fee, nappies fee, snacks, for Bank Holidays/closures etc the fees may not cover everything.

Oh ok I just looked it up.
I am in Scotland - it is 1:5 in Scotland. England, Wales and Northern Ireland are all 1:4

The other ratios are all the same.

I work in a nursery with two colleagues who have worked in a Busy Bees previously. They have horrendous stories of how staff were treated and how children had poor experiences. They both get very sad when talking about their experiences there, to the extent that I warn my friends and family not to send their children there. Of course, their experiences were centred on mainly one branch but it does sound like the poor practice is widespread from what they saw of other branches and other colleagues.

My almost 2 year old and 3.5 year old go to Busy Bees and we've had a great experience!
The younger one can't talk yet but the older one tells me how much she loves going. The staff are all lovely and I feel that they have gained so much confidence and actually learned new skills since joining

It sounds as if there’s a great deal of variation within the chain then my kids went to a busybees & it was brill. There was some change in staff - that will always happen, but the same core of staff all the way through. All the staff seemed knew all the kids, they did lots of stuff & addressed any issues pretty quickly. Very engaged parents though, so perhaps that kept things tighter?