Is it me or is this nursery shit? Should I move DD?

[nothappywithnursery]

Is it me or is this a shit nursery?

I’ve put DD forward to be investigated for some behaviours she’s displaying (most likely ADHD). For over a year now, nursery staff have dismissed any behavioural concerns I’ve had for DD as “it’s a phase and she’ll grow out of it” kind of thing and I stupidly (or because I’ve been in denial) believed it thinking maybe her behaviour was down to life events beyond her control- lockdown, her dad getting married to his partner, them having a new baby, etc. That is, until I observed DD at a party at a friends house a couple of weeks ago and it was so obvious she was different from the other children around her. So, I instigated a referral through the GP for DD to be seen by the local child development team and asked nursery what their thoughts were re: DDs behaviour, emotional regulation, etc. This time, I got something along the lines of “we’ve not been too worried but now that you mention it, there are some things that aren’t quite right…” so I asked them if I could have some observations of DD in certain situations so I could recommend strategies that might help her stay on task, keep focussed, etc. (I work in a related field) and was promised they’d get onto it straight away. Apart from two photos uploaded on the parent portal (where DD looks miserable ‘playing’ with a toy designed for babies- she’s 2.5 and wouldn’t normally touch toys like that- the entire situation looks staged), nothing else materialised. Today at pickup, I get told DD had refused her lunch and had only had a few sips of water all day and that she’d also pushed over another child when she didn’t get her way. I’m so disappointed as I’ve asked to come in and speak to her key worker (who we’ve not yet been officially introduced to) to explain what works for DD at home and I’ve been refused this (covid rules mean they won’t allow anyone in and the key worker is too busy during the day to talk to me) and also written in with a list of things that I find helps keep DD calm and engaged but I was made to feel like I was a meddling parent and my advice wasn’t needed because their staff is “highly qualified and trained and knows what to do” (nursery manager’s words).

What do I do now? Do I withdraw her from the current nursery and keep her at home and focus on correcting certain behaviours until I know what the outcome of her assessment is/a place becomes available at a new nursery? This would mean me giving up work (something I can’t afford to do) and forfeiting the £3000+ fees I’ve paid for DD attending nursery this term.

I’m really confused and could do with some advice.

* There has been some regression in skills when it comes to attention (the little she does display). Previously DD would be able to answer basic questions. Now, there are sensory lapses and she genuinely doesn't hear parts of a conversation and will look very upset if she's asked why she hasn't done XYZ. She'll reply 'because you didn't tell me' or 'I don't know'.*

I would record these sensory lapses if I were you so you can show the specialist. Does she respond during them? Have Absence seizures been mentioned by any of the specialists or doctors you have seen? AS aren’t always a sign of ASD - the only toddler I knew who suffered them was eventually diagnosed with severe anxiety (caused due to hostilities between parents impacting the attention they could give him. The seizures did eventually resolve).

I am based in the East Midlands but if you want to find a good nursery I would say go for an Outstanding one that provides daily written observations to you. You will find a lof of MNetters are against daily obs because they mistakenly believe it takes time away from playing with the kids, but in my experience they are essential in the early years so you know what they are and aren’t doing. Where are you based? If midlands / south east I might be able to suggest some nurseries to visit.

. Previously DD would be able to answer basic questions. Now, there are sensory lapses and she genuinely doesn't hear parts of a conversation and will look very upset if she's asked why she hasn't done XYZ. She'll reply 'because you didn't tell me' or 'I don't know'.

Sounds like very complex questions for a three year old
Does she ask "why" questions herself?

If she can say "because you didn't tell me'" seems pretty advanced

You say she is 2.5
" Why "is more for three to four yr old
www.entwellbeing.com.au/when-should-a-child-be-able-to-answer-questions/

So too early to worry about answering those kin d of questions?
Go back to what where etc

@Embracelife

So too early to worry about answering those kin d of questions? Go back to what where etc

Dd has moments of brilliance where she can be on-board, engage and hold a two-way conversation. These moments are very brief though and mostly in the car where she is belted into her car seat and can't move/run away! So I know she is capable of thinking for herself and interact well. It's the rest of the time I'm worried about. I need help. I thought nursery and I would be able to work together and support each other but for the reasons mentioned above, it doesn't seem this is likely.

Listen to your instincts! I kept DS at the Outstanding nursery everyone raves about for long after I had concerns. He became a biter with an horrendous temper. Went on to attack mode constantly. Nursery we're equally uncooperative.

Moved him at 2 years old exactly to a childminder/nursery hybrid (5-10 children depending on day, home setting) and he's transformed. Still energetic but sweet, caring, a joy to be around. I get all these stories from the childminder about who his friends are and what he's done. I think the other place was too much for him and too formal. I don't think he developed those close, intimate relationships they need.

I hope something similar could work for you. The sleep thing is really concerning - she must be knackered.

I think ASD would be investigated at around 2.5 - 3 years, my son's was, but caution would be taken in terms of applying a diagnosis, that early. A good paediatrician would consider all potential diagnoses.

I think you are right to want to discuss in what way your daughter is behaving differently, or not in a way that you might feel is as socially aware as some of the other children of her age, whom you know. I can imagine that you want some detail and professional insight, whether or not the nursery staff agree with you or disagree. I would, if I were you. You've done so much to assist them, with ideas and strategies, to help them to help your daughter to get the most out of nursery.

No, the nursery isn't being supportive or professional at all.

All 2 year olds have adhd

She is two
She wont have great attention all the time
But
Just look at other nurseries if you don't feel happy with current one

"She's not even visible in the weekly newsletters. It's 6 weeks into the new term and she was featured in 1 newslette"

What are these newsletters?
Why should she be featured?

If you feel she needs assessed then get some assessments rolling which you are doing .

If you unhappy with nursery look for another. See what the options are.

[quote Embracelife]You say she is 2.5
" Why "is more for three to four yr old
www.entwellbeing.com.au/when-should-a-child-be-able-to-answer-questions/[/quote]
Some kids get the grasp of their surroundings and language a lot earlier than others. It really isn’t unusual for a 1.5-2.5 yo to be asking or trying to understand ‘why’ something happens.

Sorry to interject but my sons been at his preschool now since March 2020 and I’ve not had 1 observation. Are they supposed to be doing them?

I think the problem is sometimes as teachers we look for issues as to why our children are behaving a set way because in work that's what we are trained to do. A lot of what you have stated to me sounds typical behaviour, my 3 year old will go from having a conversation to laying upside down on the sofa making moo noises.

They often don't have a particularly good attention span. I often find I want an explanation beyond what his preschool offer but a lot of that is how my brain works and wanting to know the reason for it to understand why they have made choices.

I would be frustrated by the nursery not speaking even if it's just 5 minutes at the end of the day at pick up. Will they not answer questions at pick up if you ask?

The lack of observation, planning and refusal to engage with you would make me choose another setting ASAP.

The nursery does not sound very helpful OP. We would always listen to a parents concerns and try to come up with a plan to support them. In reference to observations, the new EYFS published in Sept 2021 actually states that there is no requirement for written observations anymore as long as staff have a good knowledge of how each child is progressing. However if you have concerns, I would expect them to spend a few weeks observing her fairly intensively tbh. I would make an appointment with the manager and/or ask to speak to the SENCO

Has your child had their 2-2.5 year health review with HV?
They can refer on if there are developmental concerns.

It is so young for a diagnosis of ADHD - I’m not saying it couldn’t be the case but I think at 2.5 years old you won’t get anywhere with this. Remember a diagnosis isn’t some magic fix either. I’m not sure they would prescribe medicine to help with ADHD to a child that young anyway so until she gets to school she won’t really get anything out of a diagnosis.