Our childcare is the second most expensive in the world

[BlodynFioled]

Our childcare sector is the second most expensive in the world and is forcing many women out of the workforce. This is definitely worth the read:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/graziadaily.co.uk/amp/life/parenting/childcare-campaign/?fbclid=IwAR3hf7N4vZs--PQpvL89dP7PHcyryGzxcRWgREeQn5RkbMMBGlIQjQDB7bI

The alternative is
Care for your own children
OR
Don't have children
Childminders work very hard for little pay.
(I will now shield as I get pelted)

Well… the last couple of replies don’t address why it’s so expensive here particularly, as opposed to nearly every other country in the world.

There’s also the other classic for threads like this - enough people delay or agree against having children, and down the line there’s a shortage of people to pay taxes, wipe asses in care homes etc.

@Fliss444

The alternative is Care for your own children OR Don't have children Childminders work very hard for little pay. (I will now shield as I get pelted)

And if people do that, childminders and nurseries wouldn't have any business! How would you like people to pay their bills if they can't work due to child care?

Many nurseries struggle to stay afloat anyway and some childminders have to take the maximum amount of children to make a decent living.
It is only a suggested alternative to care for your own children at home for the pre school years. Most schools in my area provide breakfast clubs and after school care once they start school.
On this flipside as there are more SAHM there will be more job vacancies.
Nannies are also a good alternative which I appreciate can be costly but surely parents to be will consider this when planning to have children?

But a lot of families rely on that second wage to help contribute towards bills I'm going back to work full time and nursery fees will take a considerable amount of money from our wages but we couldn't afford not to Plus, it gets baby used to going to a different setting

Not sure why people are bringing up the low pay of childcare workers as a means to slate the petition. It’s mentioned in the petition that 1 in 10 live in poverty.

The system doesn’t work if people are having to pay more than the cost of a private school in nursery fees yet the staff are paid so poorly.

Tbh if the eventual outcome of this debate was that government funding allowed childcare workers to be paid more but my family still paid the same I still see that as a win.

The argument for more Government subsidised childcare is that it’s an investment in our economy (more parents working), and an investment in the future of our society. People who resent their taxes being spent on this presumably would also resent any other Government funded “care”. But some people are just me me me (the Thatcher ideal). I tend to take more of a whole society view.

Flip this around, why should I as a tax payer subsidise your childcare? I mean you could ask this of social care too, why am I subsidising baby boomers who don’t want to sell their house or whose kids don’t want them, or who didn’t go to uni when it was free and who generally are way richer than I will ever be.

Things haven't changed since I was a young mum, couldn't afford the childcare then so I stayed at home. I then worked part-time, then back to full- time, but things move on and I always felt it did disadvantage me. It's one of the reasons I help out with my grandchild. If myself and my husband couldn't, I don't know what my family would do. Childcare is and always has been very expensive. No government, no matter the party, has done anything about this for as long as I can remember.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Flip this around, why should I as a tax payer subsidise your childcare? I mean you could ask this of social care too, why am I subsidising baby boomers who don’t want to sell their house or whose kids don’t want them, or who didn’t go to uni when it was free and who generally are way richer than I will ever be.

Why should they have to sell the house that they worked hard for? What about prisoners who contribute nothing towards their keep? As people get older, they require care through no fault of their own. Prisoners however, have a choice in committing crimes yet pay nothing for their accommodation etc whilst in prison!

@DocsRock if someone resents childcare being subsidised, I think it’s logical to assume they resent adult care being subsidised.

Bringing in prisoners to this conversation is a complete non-sequitur.

@Faithless12 The previous comment mentioned 'boomers' which I disagreed with. I commented about prisoners as may way of comparison

Why should they have to sell the house that they worked hard for?
Did they work hard? Or did they buy a house for the equivalent of roughly twice the average salary and then watch it grow to roughly 10 times while doing nothing
And now they need somewhere to live that provides care so surely they just swap their u suitable home for a suitable one with care staff

What about prisoners who contribute nothing towards their keep?
Most prisoners work in prison, partly as rehabilitation and skills training and partly as contribution towards their costs
They even get to keep a bit of the cash they earn on their release

As people get older, they require care through no fault of their own.
So let them pay to be housed somewhere suitable for their needs
We fully accept people downsize to bungalows when they need to, and know that attracts moving costs, so why should moving to a care home be any different?

Prisoners however, have a choice in committing crimes yet pay nothing for their accommodation etc whilst in prison!
As we’ve established, this isn’t correct

@GappyValley Of course they worked hard for their money! Like they've worked hard over the years to keep their homes and maintain them.

'Most prisoners. And how many hours do they work in prison? Do they do the equivalent of full time hours to contribute to their keep? Or do they work some hours and have their keep topped up by the tax payer?

[quote DocsRock]@GappyValley Of course they worked hard for their money! Like they've worked hard over the years to keep their homes and maintain them.

'Most prisoners. And how many hours do they work in prison? Do they do the equivalent of full time hours to contribute to their keep? Or do they work some hours and have their keep topped up by the tax payer?[/quote]
Work hard how?
I don’t ‘work hard’ for my house. I pay he mortgage, I do some upkeep (or pay someone to do it) but it isn’t hard work
My grandparents certainly didn’t work hard for their house. They bought it for a pittance, paid a pittance for the mortgage and did basic upkeep. It isn’t hard work by any stretch

You’ve got a bizarre view of what is required to, y’know, live somewhere

And maybe Google is your friend if you don’t know how the prison work system works. It’s pretty common knowledge, hence the very very common film and TV trope of prisoners sewing clothes, working in kitchens, working in the gardens

You may not 'work hard' but I do, as do many people I know.

I've Googled it and I'm still none the wiser. How many hours do they actually work?

There is already the 30 free hours in place for 3 year old and subsidised care for those on benefits. Which is a lot more than people got in the past. And I wouldn't agree with even more subsidies. Especially for people nearly in the higher tax band

Whilst childcare is a joint cost, in reality it is normally mums who sacrifice their careers. I am the breadwinner and yet still have just gone PT. DH “couldn’t”. I am glad to have a day with our baby toddlers but find the extortionate cost of childcare depressing, especially for those with multiples.
Despite a decent salary, after paying our nanny £3k a month plus other bills, it is hardly worth me working.

I'd like employers to be compelled/encouraged to offer reduced days/hours for parents of young children. So rather than subsidise babies and toddlers being put into full time daycare - which I think does not benefit the child - let's have a work culture change similar to what I understand is common in Scandinavia and the Netherlands.

Men and women work reduced hours so they can spend more time with their children.

Funding should be put into the really important preschool years - including Reception - with well educated teachers paid professional wages to lead well trained staff.

Back to the childcare issue, I dont understand when people say the cost shouldn't be solely the womens burden, it should be shared between both partners. Surely the net result is the same if it's taken out of the household budget.
If the mother earns 1500/month and the father earns 2000/month and childcare is £1600/month....that still leaves them with less than 1 full wage between them, however you share it!
Where I live nursery, was £56/day, 15 years ago, add train fare and I would have been working for nothing. I dont have the type of job that has different levels or promotions available so it wasnt worth it to work when DC were little when we would have been relying on the amount that DH earned (whether that was solely his wages or split between the 2 of us) , whether I went to work or not. I went back to work when the youngest started school.

@DocsRock

You may not 'work hard' but I do, as do many people I know.

I've Googled it and I'm still none the wiser. How many hours do they actually work?

Yes, I bet you're there up a ladder fixing the roof yourself, and ferreting away in a workshop making new windows!

've Googled it and I'm still none the wiser. How many hours do they actually work?
Literally the first hit on google explains it can be full time or part time depending on the prison, the category of offender and whether they are required to do any other rehabilitation or education courses

Maybe if you get time between your back breaking house maintenance work, you could do a course on googling..!

But this is a total sideshow and doesn't detract from the fact that plenty of other countries are able to keep criminals in prison for the greater good of society, AND subsidise childcare for the greater good of society

My dad left my mum when my sister was small. My mum couldn't afford to work and lived on benefits for a few years until her mum retired and offered to help with childcare.

Me and DH are on not that great a wage and can afford 2 days a week childcare so we worked our sifts to make that happen. When DH lost his job for almost a year due to covid it was such a challenge to pay to keep DS's place.

@GappyValley Well aren't you pleasant. Have a nice day

The prison argument is non sensical - prison is not a free home it’s a form of punishment- getting old and needing care isn’t anyone’s “fault” but it’s inevitable, you know it will happen (touch wood)- you sell your house to pay for YOUR care. At least funding childcare enables parents to work, the next generation to hopefully be better educated, to put it bluntly funding someone’s care to guarantee their child’s inheritance is of zero benefit to society

@OnlyFoolsnMothers I do understand what you're saying but by that argument, committing a crime means its inevitable you're going to end up with the punishment of prison?

On the other hand, it's people's choice to have children. Growing old isn't a choice