Nursery charge during lockdown when you keep your baby at home

[Famoona]

Hi, I have a situation that is a bit similar to some of the previous threads: what do you have to pay during lockdown? In my case, I have been keeping my baby at home during the peak covid period (Jan until now). I still pay the nursery in full with the idea that when things get better I can send her back anytime.
Today I called and ask if I can send my baby in from tomorrow, but the nursery said they need a week notice in order to keep the right ratio of staff - children. They had not mentioned this 1 week advance notice before and they do not agree to refund me the fee for this week. Does this make sense? Do you think this is still in line with gov guildline?

@Famoona

Its also funny when in the past, I sometimes had urgent work to do and had to send her in for extra day (she’s only on 3 days a week) and they always able to make extra space for her and just charge me the extra days in the following month.. now when I paid in full and they refused almost instantly!

What’s funny about it? You’ve heard of bubbles, yes?

I'm usually on the side of the nursery in threads like this, but I'd be unimpressed to be paying for a space and then be told we couldn't use it. I can't see our nursery doing that.

The exception is of course if you told them you wouldn't be using it until a later date, or if they asked you for notice of coming back when you pulled out.

The nursery might not be furloughubg staff and still charging you, as others have suggested. Perhaps one person is on holiday, or off sick? They havent planned on your child coming in, and it's not always possible to get staff at short notice, especially if you dont want agency people coming in and potentially bringing infections from elsewhere.
They need correct ratios, and cant take unplanned children even if they have paid. A little consideration goes a long way, OP.

@noimnotdoingit

OP I agree with you. If parents are being charged full fees then nursery shouldn't be double dipping by claiming furlough for staff. So you're paying for an "on call" nursery place but you've not got that. I suspect if you point this out to them they'll manage to squeeze her in.

Squeeze her in? What, by going over their ratio or magicing up an extra staff member? You have to give notice, hardly rocket science.

@FuckyouBrennan I'll wager that govt guidance is not also telling nurseries to charge full fees while they've furloughed staff! That's the issue, the double dipping.

If you choose to keep your child off then of course you pay
And give more than a days nutice to return
Rotas are done in advance

I think you have every right to send her when you are paying full price my nursery has children shielding or parents keeping their children off for the same reasons but if a parent said they were bringing their child back then we would have staff to facilitate this. In fact we have had parents who haven't phone and just brought their child in. It was not a problem. I know things are tight in nurseries with the fund crisis. But they shouldn't be making an extra profit from parents.

@noimnotdoingit our LA is yes. We provide childcare to many families that would be very stuck if we had to close. What would you all do without nurseries ?
You do realise that if your child is entitled to EYF or FEL and they don’t attend, then we don’t get the money from the government. Given a lot of 3 year olds now receive 30 hours instead of 15, that’s a hell of a lot of income we’re loosing!

@noimnotdoingit we also can’t retrospectively furlough and our wages are processed on the 15th of the month to be paid on the 27th. So if we have, for example, 3 members of staff who then have to isolate after the 15th- they’ve already received full pay for that month and we have to stand to it, even though we won’t of received the income if parents didn’t pay while the room was closed.
Guidance is to flexi-furlough staff who are isolating- not SSP.

What's your answer then @FuckyouBrennan?

You seem to be saying OP should accept paying full fees for a service (nursery place) that is not being provided.

OP's contract is with the provider, not the LA or the individual staff or payroll provider (the LA, staff and payroll processor no doubt have contracts with the provider). It helps to think of a chain of contracts and work out who is a party to which contract.

Not much more I can advise other than to check the nursery Ts&Cs for any requirement to give "notice" that you intend to take up a place you are already taking up (which would be an unusual provision to include in a commercial contract).

Under normal circumstances it would be perfectly acceptable to expect the nursery to have that space for your child but these are not normal times and operating procedures are different. Staff can’t just move rooms - they stay in a consistent bubble to limit the amount of children who may have to self isolate in the event of a positive case
You told the nursery you didn’t need the place so they have adjusted their staffing accordingly
It is totally your right to then use that place but they need some notice. They can’t just magic up a member of staff from nowhere and there are legal ratios that need to adhered to

I think fine for them to need notice, though that should have been made very clear. However also think that you shouldn’t have to pay for that week. Should be a credit though otherwise parents can give notice that child is attending next week, get the notice money and not send the child.

They might not have known that it would be an issue down the line
I’ve had staff off this week self isolating and while we could cope with the children we had there was no way any extra children could have come in at short notice as I also had staff on annual leave and staff not contracted to work as it’s half term
All I’m saying is it’s difficult times for everyone and people need to realise that there are reasons why their request might be denied

@noimnotdoingit to give more than 24 hours notice in future

I'd be fuming tbh, you are paying for a place and I would expect that place to be fully available to me the day I want to use it. Otherwise I would have expected a reduction in fees.

Staff are probably being deployed differently due to the numbers they have in different bubbles - they wouldnt keep something g in the baby room twiddling their thumbs until all the children return. A weeks notice would be required in my nursery to prepare the change in staff between bubbles.