Can’t start nursery at Easter?

[CosmicComet]

Started looking at nurseries for my DS because I want to put him on the waiting list for when he turns 3 and gets free hours. But I’ve been told I can’t, because he was born in January.

The kids who turned 3 over the summer are eligible to start nursery in September. Then the kids who turn 3 before Xmas are eligible to start in January. And finally those who turn 3 in the Spring are eligible to start after Easter.

Basically the local nursery has spaces in September because that’s when kids leave to go to school. So the September starters take some places, and if there are places left the January starters take them. And there are no places left for Easter starters. So the nursery said there’s no point putting my DS on the waiting list because there’ll be no places left by the time he’s eligible to start.

AIBU to think this is unreasonable? Their only advice was to “choose a crapper nursery because they’re more likely to still have places left at Easter. Try X nursery in the next town because Ofsted has rated it as Poor”. Why should my DS have to go to a nursery rated Poor just because of when his birthday falls?!

A child is a choice. We all decide if we can afford the time off work, if we even want to stay at home with a child etc. We all know that even with a few funded hours a day, we wouldn't be able to work unless we paid to top up those hours. We all know that in some circumstancea it simply doesn't make sense to go back to work until the kid is in primary school, and then after school clubs are around £5-10 a day. It's more manageable.

If you want to return to work just for the distraction, then of course do it. But then you need to be the one to find a nursery space instead of complaining about it and saying "they" should do it for you.

The nursery ds is at gives priority for the free hours to those kids already enrolled
So not only do those kids benefit from their family being able to afford to work and cover childcare, they also get given priority for nursery spaces. While people who are poorer and relying on a free place to afford to go to work are lower priority. Basically giving priority to the least needy!

How goady can you get, do you think - If I could have afforded to, that I wouldn't have preferred to have stayed at home with my son until he turns 3 like you are able to? Instead I had to pay over £500 a month for him to go into nursery at 8 months old because we couldnt afford either of us to be SAHP. Our nursery is £4.50 an hour, even NMW is higher than that - therefore working, no matter how little, is profitable to us and enables the bills to be paid which wouldn't be otherwise. Damn right he should then get priority in the nursery we have paid for for over 2 years when it comes to enabling out bill to reduce slightly.

You also don't know the other nursery is shit as you haven't looked at it for yourself

Who do you mean by 'they' anyway?
The LEA or whoever.

Many children don't go to preschool at all
Many children don’t go to school either. That doesn’t mean it’s best for them. If my child is entitled to a free education (and I’m entitled to free childcare) then they should have to ensure he gets it. Not tell me he can only have it if I search around for a place and probably won’t find one.

Only this one preschool has said this to you. Why are you not looking at others?
According to them it’s universally known that there are no places in April.

If you're not working up to promotions to earn more money then getting back into work isn't as big a deal
Maybe I don’t want to sit at home on my arse for any longer than I have to, even if I don’t have a “career”?

According to one nursery! You haven't been bothered to check!
This is so frustrating. You do know when you look for schools you will have to go and look and investigate and apply?
You are entitled to up to 30 hours term time only. Good luck finding a job that matches that!
And....HAVE YOU WRITTEN TO YOUR MP???

You said there was space in the shit nursery
They said there might be. Not that there would be.

Have you spoken to the other nursery and gone to actually look at it?

If I could have afforded to, that I wouldn't have preferred to have stayed at home with my son until he turns 3 like you are able to?

It’s not because I can afford to. It’s because I can’t afford not to. I won’t earn enough to pay for childcare. Good for you that you can pay for childcare and have money left over to pay bills. I’d have nothing left over.

For goodness sake, those are financial calculations every parent needs to make.

Childcare costs the same as one person currently earns, but by going back to work they'd get a raise in a year, then another. Or, they'd continue to gain experience and get their name known so they will get promotions and raises. So, to that person, paying for childcare makes financial sense. If they wait 5 years for primary, then their career is on hold and they'd need to go back after a longer break and find it harder to move up. It makes sense to spend a couple years working for very little leftover.

Someone else, childcare costs more than what they'd earn. There's no potential for growth. It makes no financial sense to return to work. If they desperately want too, then they take the hit and work for nothing then continue to work for minimum wage whilst kid is in school.

You get funded hours, that helps ease the pressure and makes working more financially viable. But it's your job to find a place. If you don't want to pay from the September term to guarantee a place then someone else will, the nursery cannot keep empty spaces when they have bills to pay.

Like lots of others. Including my sister in law. Who is now a SAHM looking at retraining while utilising the 15 free hours.

If your husband earns too much that you aren't entitled to any benefits towards childcare costs, how can't you afford to pay for nursery? Is it just a case that you don't want to?

My son is booked in to start nursery in September. He'll be 9 months old. He's booked in to do 9-3, 3 days a week and I'll be working those days, probably 20-25 hours a week. Between me and my husband, we will then be earning £30k between us in total, before tax, and we will still be better off before looking at things like universal credit contributions, or the tax free childcare system.

There are benefits to you going back to work other than just financial gain - regaining your identity as someone other than just Mum, NI contributions, pension contributions, minimising gaps in your CV

They are not free spaces. They are funded.

If you’re not picking up the tab for the funding gap then your childcare setting will be.

Maybe finally people are seeing what a shit vote ‘winner’ this was and stop voting Tory.

And a lot of nurseries charge less per hour than the minimum wage. So you'd still be making money, just a very small amount. But if you really want to work then that would be worth it.

From a nursery point of view..... my hrly rate for a 3 yr old is £4.75.

I receive £4.08 from the gov to pay for the funded hr.

So.....I stand to lose 67p per hr for every funded hr I offer. So lets just say I offer 40 funded places (either a large nursery or several smaller ones) I stand to lose £26.80 per funded hr. (.67p x 40 children ) Times this by 15 hrs a week if its the universal funding =£402 a week. (£26.80 x 15 hrs a week) Times this by 38 weeks of the yr =£15,276. (£402 x 38 weeks a yr )

Now add on another 15 hrs a week making the extended 30 hrs of funding. This now adds up to be a loss of just over £30k..... a year!!!

This is why nurseries are struggling with this. We are not allowed to charge a top up- the difference between my hrly rate and the hrly rate I get given by the gov. I am allowed allowed to charge for consumables.... as long as its voluntary so basically in a nut shell... I rely on the goodness of my parents paying this top up to enable me to survive.

Why would any nursery do this.... imagine I say no... no funding offered here. So my parents pay £142.53 for their 3 days in nursery. The nursery down the road says yes to funding so the same child pays just a small 'voluntary' daily charge of say £6.70 meaning their 3 days costs £20.10.

What choice do I have??!

Some nurseries might choose to spread the funding in order to try and balance their books better- so 30 hrs a week over 38 weeks a yr turns into 22 hrs a week over 51 weeks for example. Each nursery has to decide the best way to make this work for them taking into account their own circumstances.

So whilst I fully understand the frustrations of the funding for parents who might struggle to find places etc/ don't understand that the advertised 'free' places' don't actually mean free.... it does help if you can understand it from a nursery point of view as well. We.... really do want to work with parents. I certainly see the benefits of this funding in allowing parents to return to work etc but if we were funded the correct amount or if we were allowed to charge the difference it would make everyone life so much easier!!

As for places- depending on what area you are will very much mean that spaces are easy or hard to come across. In my nurseries we get very few new 3 yr olds. We take babies and tend to keep them until they go to school- so when their funding starts- term after they are 3- it will just come off their normal sessions at nursery but some do choose to increase their hrs from 2 days to 3 for example as now they are getting extra help. This does mean I have very few free spaces for new 3 yr olds but we do have some- so its worth looking around- I am sure you will have a few private nurseries in your area and also as someone else mentioned childminders.

Georgie - they haven't listened to the nurseries saying this for over a year. Nor while providers are closing. Even here the OP doesn't understand despite repeated explanations.
If you think childcare should be fully funded by the state, contact your MP and use your vote accordingly.

Feel sorry for child now. Wish it could go to nursery right now because spending every day with someone as rude and frustrating and ignorant as you are being is going to be tiring. Everything people advise you is being ignored - maybe because you are bored being stuck on your arse as you put it.

UP to 30 hours are available in a nursery somewhere near you IF you visit and call them . You may have to pay extra for this or may not but you won’t know till you call around.

I do think it is hardest for people like you OP who are in or will be in lower paid jobs, as it is harder making it financially worthwhile to go back to work.

Both my DS were in nursery from 11 months old which killed us financially for a bit but now the free hours have kicked in for DS2 it is easier. With a 'career' job you at least have the thought that you will go back to being a good earner once the pre school years are done.

Both of mine have done 3 full days a week and I naively assumed like you that they would easily be able to claim as many free hours as they were in nursery, so 9 hour day in nursery 8-5 would mean 9 free hours, times 3 then just pay extra for meals. Of course it doesn't work like this and the nursery can claim max 6 hours of funding a day per child so parents still pick up the slack.

Our nursery (which is outstanding) the naturally limits the number of kids it has who 'only' do the free hours as it can make more money from the kids (like mine) who do extra hours. They still make a loss on the 3-4 year olds! Crap system all round really.

grammarteacher I’m a childminder providing funded hours, I’m well aware thanks.

Our nursery is £4.50 an hour, even NMW is higher than that

Factor in tax, transport to work, the cost of insurance and training courses. Then factor in the fact that I only get paid for the hours I work - not my lunch break, or the hour that I commute to work, or the hour that I commute home. To work 8 hours I’d need to pay for 11 hours childcare. NMW is not higher than the total cost of working.

Traditionally though the nurseries had an intake in sept and then jan. anyone who’s birthdays were after that would have to wait till September. It’s only recently when they have started taking children sooner. Some schools will still even now only take children the sept before they go to school. A lot of parents use a private nursery or a childminder to use their hours before they go to school nursery. It’s not like the nurseries can keep a space open for a whole term or two because they have a child that may or may not start at Easter. It’s just not viable

If your husband earns too much that you aren't entitled to any benefits towards childcare costs, how can't you afford to pay for nursery? Is it just a case that you don't want to?
We could pay for it but we’d be out of pocket and worse off for me working. Which doesn’t make sense. I’m sick of being stuck at home and my HV told me I was entitled to free childcare so I could return to work when DS is 3.

You really need to chill out @CosmicComet . You sound as though you're getting really stressed about this but it's 2 years away and anything could happen in that time. Maybe someone will open a nursery down your road that will have space for your DS immediately upon his 3rd birthday. Maybe not. But either way, getting irate about it isn't going to change anything. Look at other options like childminders etc but remember that people don't know what the situation will be in 2 years time. Maybe the Government will have stopped the free hours altogether by then!

cosmicComet I too pay tax on my wage, and commute, and don't get paid for my lunch. We do have the tax free childcare so the £4.50 an hour costs us only £3.60 per hour. A full day at nursery for my boy (drop off 8am, pick up 5:30) is £44.50 (cost to us with Tax free childcare £35.60) Between us DP and I earn under £40k, it is still more feasible, in our situation, to both work 5 days a week.

They are not free spaces. They are funded

Clearly says FREE.