can someone please explain the difference between a day nursery and a pre-school?

[Tutter]

am a tad confused

Yes - and the 'curriculum' bit was only for part of the day, so the rest was very much 'fun, play and care' - the typical nursery stuff

I think some people are a bit hung up on the 'educational' element of 'pre-school' verus the 'care' nature of nursery. I remember an exchange with the Dad of a child in our NCT class who remarked, when his child started 'Pre-school' at the local private school for 3 mornings a week. I mentioned that our son was also in 'pre-school' at the local nursery he'd been attending for the last 2 years. "Oh no," said the Dad, " this isn't nursery, this is proper school, it's quite different..."

and then another friend, who had been a pre-school teacher, pointed out that she knew they followed exactly the same curriculum...

I guess the key difference is that as pre-school is usually term time only, it prepares parents for school by making them realise they have to sort out care over the school hols!

Lolol

Hmm.... not anti nursery by any chance are you Clary?

I think we've established that 'Pre-school' doesn't exist exclusively in term-time/ school setting anyway!

this is confusing cuz obv you have pre-school children in a nursery, and nurseries are open 5 days a week 8-6 or wotever, and i know in those pre-school classes they are getting prepared for school, with maybe readin and learning to count etc.

daisy - exactly.

My DSs did all their Jolly Phonics, numbers 1-20 (IIRC?), shapes, etc in the pre-school in the day nursery setting.

So that's what I meant about some people mistakenly confusing 'nursery/ daycare' with 'just playing' and 'Pre-school' with 'early education'.

It's just that in the nursery/daycare setting there are obviously other times when there is more 'free play'/ stories/ craft etc.

no legacy, not anti nursery, tho it wasn't my childcare choice for a number of reasons.

I do get irritated by people who confuse day nursery with the kind of nursery school we are lucky enough to have where I live tho - staffed by trained early years educators, ie teachers, which I would suggest most daycare nurseries and indeed privately run playgroups (certainly our local one) are not...

Clary - you've just confirmed exactly the point I was trying to make. It's not as cut and dried as "Day nursery" = care (not education) and "pre-school/ nursery school" = education.

OK, so I don't know your local nursery, and you don't know mine, however I get as equally irritated by people who assume that day nursery staff have no education training.

My son's pre-school teacher was a former state nursery school teacher. Other staff had equal amounts of Early Years education training, and infact, many moved between the nursery school and the private day nursery (which included 8-6 care, if required).

The Early Years curriculum was the same in both places. That's why private nurseries are Ofsted checked - to check progress against early years learning goals.
It's also why Government funding for early years education for 3-4 year olds is transferable between different establishments. We used our 2.5 days a week 'allowance' at DS's pre-school. Establishments have to meet the same educational requirements to be eligible for this funding.

I'm sorry, but your comment,
"I do get irritated by people who confuse day nursery with the kind of nursery school we are lucky enough to have where I live tho - staffed by trained early years educators, ie teachers, which I would suggest most daycare nurseries and indeed privately run playgroups (certainly our local one) are not... " just sounds as smug and ill-informed as my NCT friend's husband

sorry legacy, not meaning to sound smug and ill-informed.

My experience of nurseries (not wide I agree) and our local playgroups is that they are not staffed by trained teachers.

If yours are then I think you are very lucky. Most of the nurseries hereabouts as far as I can tell from chat to other mums are staffed by youngish women with childcare training, who I am sure are excellent at their jobs and well trained for what they do. I doubt if many of them are teachers tho.

I never said "day nursery is not education". Of course pre-school children will be learningn in whatever setting, be it the home, childminder, day nursery, playgroup, nursery school. And what they learn will vary according to the facilities, the staff, their own abilities and interests and many other variables. And yes, thanks, I have heard of the early years curriculum and I am aware that it is followed by day nurseries 9and my childminder too, if it comes to that)

I have worked in a few nurseries, i'm a nursery assistant but iv'e had allot of experience and I work damn hard with the children, whatever it is i'm doing with them. Sometime I even do a better job than the qualifieds and can be more organised.Now adays most nurseries have to have qualified staff but not necessarily and also, these young or middle aged qualifieds are for mursery nurses not everyone has to be a teacher for toddlers and pre-schoolers

OK daisy, if you look at my post I said that nursery staff are excellent at their jobs and well trained for what they do. Doesn't make em teachers tho, any more than I am a novelist, tho I write for a living.

No, you probably don't need to be a teacher. All I said was that my DS's nursery school is staffed (partly) by teachers. And that's different (IME tho not Legacy's) from most daycare nurseries and playgroups.

yeh I know, I see what you mean

Well, we clearly have different opinions and experiences on this one.

I guess the point I would make to Tutter would be not to judge different pre-school environments by their 'label' and e.g. whether they are provided as an attachment to a school, or via a day nursery. Instead, evaluate each on its own merits.

Ask questions about the staff qualifications, the learning environment. Check out the Ofsted report for progress against learning goals etc.

Not all school-based nurseries will be good, and not all daycare will be bad. Probably most importantly, ask parents who already have kids in a particular pre-school what they feel about it. Some school-based nurseries can be very 'formal' which may be too much for a young 3-4 year old.

And trust your own instincts too of course when you visit - do the children look happy? Are the facilities conducive to learning through play?

Good luck!

Just to confirm Clary's distinction between a daycare nursery and a nursery school ( I always use the term pre-school for nursery school as for me it clarifies the difference) - if they are run by your LEA whether they are attached to a primary school or stand alone establishments, they are run by the same people who run the schools, staffed by teachers and nursery nurses (usually half and half) and their primary purpose is education rather than childcare. Unless they are private schools, they are not commerical ventures but funded out of the education budget.

I have used both - daycare when DD was little and pre-school + nanny when she was older and DS came along.

OK, Sinclair, that's fine if that's your personal distinction, but trying to help the original poster, I am trying to point out that this is not a universally accepted definition.

so, for example, my sons went to a Pre-School that :

• was not attached to a primary school
• was not LEA funded
• was approved for the Early Years funding grant for parents of 3-4 year olds
• was staffed by qualified teachers and nursery nurses, and
• had education as a primary purpose, for at least part of the day (with childcare available as 'wrap around' if required)
• was privately funded

So lots of people chose to use their funding for 5 mornings a week at the Pre-school, rather than at the (over-subscribed) nursery class of the Infant School my children now attend.

So it's just not as straightforward as people are trying to make it.

Lots of nurseries have a kind of 'upper school' which is the point at which pre-school education kicks in.

I have to say, I just don't get the people who always try to argue that unless it's attached to a school it's not 'proper education' - sorry, but it's B&ll*cks !

Not sure if this all got answered but thought I would chip in. I have worked in childcare for yonks and have worked in all sectors so think I might be able to help. What a childcare setting calls itself is completely up to the owner, it can be a nursery, nursery school, pre-school etc. These titles are mostly quite meaningless. What you do have are maintained or state settings (those owned and run by the local education authority), private settings (such as your private day nursery), independant settings (e.g. pre-prep and prep schools) and voluntary settings (these are run by charities or organisations such as the pre-school learning alliance). All of these have to follow the foundation stage curriculum and employ qualified staff that meet the National Daycare Standards. The variations you will get will be around hours offered, fees and the philosophy and approach to delivering the childcare.
So - to sum up, the terms 'pre-school' or 'day nursery' don't actually tell you much!

Legacy, of course I agree with yr post about not judging by the label, and looking at what they offer, how the children are etc.

I think we all agree that that is the best way forward.

Yr DSs' pre-school sounds excellent. So is my DS's nursery school (LEA funded but not attached to a school, actually). I don't think it's only proper if attached to a school, but I do think this nursery school offers a betetr quality of pre-school learning than the local playgroup. Mainly because of the purpose built setting and excellent staff, which of course a playgroup or daycare could also have.

Hello Sinclair btw

thanks all

it's clear that there is no real distinction

am going to go with gut feel

My dd's nursery had a pre-school class where I presume they stepped up the reading and writing and basic maths and eased off on the learning through play in preparation for reception.

day nursery = offer full daycare all year round and also will offer nursery education sessons funded by the government 5 x 2.5 hours per week

preschool - this is a word some parents like to use usually for the LEA run nursery schools which run term time only 9-330
again you can have your 5 x 2.5 hour sessions here if you wish.