Illegal Childcare

[NotQuiteCockney]

In our neighbourhood, there are a couple of illegal nurseries. They're parent-run, and take place in parents' homes.

The nurseries advertise quite a bit, in the library and in local stores. I even saw one of them mentioned in a newspaper article on the weekend (with enough details that anyone who knew anything about nurseries would know it was illegal).

How illegal is this? Who would be charged? And with what?

I'm concerned that something will go wrong (accident, fire). I'm also a bit concerned that the childcare co-op I'm in (which is Ofsted inspected etc etc) will suffer as a result, as people are made nervous about parent-run childcare.

Yes, one of the big problems with this scheme is there isn't anyone obviously in charge. Would the homeowner be sued? Would the parents on the committee? (they do have a committee, I think - the one mentioned in the paper did) Would the employees?

I never considered using this scheme. I have used random nannies on an adhoc basis (a few hours here and there, with the nanny taking my kid or kids to random places) but haven't gone any further down the random childcare route, so to speak.

MrsBadger - nannyshares don't have any official paperwork - the children are looked after within their own homes and there is no legal requirements for qualified nannies etc.

NQC - It does sound very dodgy - but I'm aware that a neighbour of mine has asked for my nanny's phone number to give to a friend looking for childcare because she had got the impression that the nanny was running some sort of illegal childminder operation from my house! (It's just a nanny share between 2 families)

I would keep out of it. I'm sorry, but I don't really see why you would intervene here.

I don't see the children will be any more at risk than say, four children and one nanny at home or four children as part of a nannyshare, with two of the children being in the other home.

That's some of why I haven't said or done anything about this before. I just always figured they'd get caught eventually anyway. But they're more and more open, and nobody seems to report them to anyone. Probably most people assume they are Ofsted-registered etc, at least people who aren't using them? Maybe some of the people using the nursery think it's legal?

It does seem less safe to me than four kids in a house with a nanny. It's more children, and more carers, and in a space that changes regularly.

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Woah, I said this sounds less safe than four kids in a house with a nanny! I didn't say four kids (assuming ages are good) with a nanny wasn't safe.

i think that if a child care service is being provided and paid for, then basic rules and regs should be adhered to ..to cover the carers if nothing else....there are reasons for inspections and for rules etc regarding child care

parents might presume the care they are using is safe , inspected and adequate ..but if it is moving from place to place,how can it be?

if i am paying someone to look after my child, i expect they will have done their homework and are prepared to abide by law..it might be working for the parents now, but what if something goes wrong?

it is a tricky situation , but there it is essentially children's safety here ?

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Are Nannies OFSTED checked? I don't think they are, are they? LL - is yours?

Are Nannies regulated in a different way to a nursery set up. One would assume so, in the same way a nanny won't be regulated the same as a playschool?!?!

Tell me if I'm totally off whack here - but it seems that Nanny sharing, and setting up a 'nursery' in your home can't really be compared, or can they?

I know my old childminder use to be OFSTED registered, and had to have her house checked by social services and OFSTED, as well as her and her entire family police checked. She was limited by law to the amount of children she could look after for two reasons;

1 - child to adult ratio
2 - the size of her house (apparently you need so much square footage of playing space per child!)

I think she was allowed to look after 4 (including her own child.) Two above the age of 14 months, and two under.

She also had to have insurance and have her house risk assessed (i.e; she had to put a fire guard around her electric fire, a stair gate to the kitchen (even though she lived in a flat!) Lockable gates to her back garden etc.)

My friend used to be a Nanny some time ago. I think she was police checked, but I don't think they are OFSTED inspected etc because they aren't providing education.

I guess that the only thing that bothers me is the fact that they are advertising it as some sort of nursery set-up? Usually nanny shares aren't advertised as an ongoing thing - you get you other family and work from there. There is a difference in accountability between one nanny looking after the children of 2 families, and 3 nannies looking after the children of up to 12 children. Does each new parent check the CRB records on each nanny, and each person living in the house hosting? This is one of the blurred areas as I wouldn't check the records for each worker at a nursery but i would definitely check a nanny.

Randomly, I ended up talking to someone who used to use one of these nurseries, and apparently they became legal(ish) a little while back. Apparently, the way they're doing it is, the parents who are hosting employ the nannies themselves, and then do a share with the other parents.

I can't see how it can be legal for one family to employ three nannies and then share them with 10 other kids, but at least it shows they're trying, I guess.

If I couldpool together with 3 or 4 families to share my nanny and save some money, I would do it. It might get a bit complicated with various activities, meal times, nap schedules, school runs, etc. But, yeah, deffo I'd consider if I could cut my outrageous childcare costs.

When you hire a nanny to take on the resposibility of being an employer. You check her qualifications, you monitor and manage the job she is doing. You review the activities and so on... It is part of being an employer. And, as a nanny employer, I am adomately opposed to regulating nannies through OFSTED (or any other organisation). It will just add red tape and more cost to childcare. I decide the job description. And I define the activities which are appropriate. AndI decide what qualifications/experience someone needs to get the job.

I know people who let other people look after their kids on a regular basis who are not 'registered/legal', obviously they are friends etc and it's one hell of a lot cheaper than paying a CM/Nanny. There are arrangements like this all over the place.

Personally I wouldn't put my kids it now, but saying that, I didn't have any friends/family here who could when I went back to work or I may have had a different attitude.

Unless I saw a child being abused I wouldn't say anything. Childcare can cripple some peoples finances and you could really screw up some people. To be a CM nowadays involves an awful lot of paperwork and jumping through hoops, and it will get worse with the red tape until no one wants to do it anymore.

Yeah, I know a couple of unregistered childminders. Ofsted requirements are really onerous these days, I know because the co-op goes through it all.

a family hiring a nanny or a nanny share is different comes under a different set of regulations from an organisation which is operation as a defacto nursery.

But couldn't anyone set up an informal nursery like this then? Let's say that I can't become a CM becuase dh is on the sex offenders register. But it is fine for me to hire 3 unqualified women (or men) to look after my children, and advertise in libraries etc and charge other familes for the privilege. Do the parents who use this provision really know the risks they are taking?

Informal arrnagements for friedsn and family is one thing - you usually know what you're getting into. it is the advertising in public places that bothers me. Someone else might be more naive and doesn't know to watch out for one of the dhs or "uncles" or whatever.

Never thought of that Ladymuck, sorry NQC, you are totally right in that sense and yes, I would report then. I was talking in the sense of friends/family when talking unofficial childcare.

Hmmm, yes, that may be the bit about the advertising that bugs me. It isn't as simple and straight-forward as a nanny share, and yes, other adults are in the houses, sometimes.

mmm, I think I know who you are talking about NQC, and it's true one was mentioned in the papers at the weekend. I almost used this sort of arrangement when my ds was 2 and a bit merely because it seemed the nicest nursery around here. We keep talking about Ofsted, but I have seen nurseries here in the Eastend, very cheap ones, Ofsted regulated, with insurance etc, but to be honest I feel sorry for anyone forced by lack of money to leave their kids there and it amazes me that Ofsted does not close them down. Some of the cheap nurseries around here are very sad, with bored looking carers, ignorant managers, but they have all the papers in order! As it happened we never did use the parent led nursery, but it was definetely my first choice.

I would never use this kind of arrangement and the description eastend uses re: registered nurseries bears no resemblance to any nursery I've ever visited, especially the one we've used very happily for 5 years.

There are some bad registered nurseries, it's true. I certainly visited one. The Ofsted rules can't say "carers must be upbeat and really care about their jobs" can they.

There is an official parent-run nursery in Wapping, though, that's a full-day setup, and is registered etc, from what I know. And it's meant to be very nice.

I should have pointed out that we only visited very cheap nurseries that cost about 25/30 quid a day because that's all we could afford at the time. There are plenty around here that are this cheap and are Ofsted regulated. And they are not very nice in my opinion. The parent led nursery which is as cheap and possibly cheaper if you offer the use of the house was the best of the lot. I am sure the Montessory across the park is a lot better, but it is a lot more expensive too.