would you discount what seems like an excellent nursery because it has an unguarded pond?

[onesock]

Just been to see a nursery for DS which has been recommended to me. It had a wonderful, homely feel and all the children seemed stimulated and motivated.
However, in the garden area they have a small pond. It's about 4ft by 4ft and 1ft deep. It had a tiny fence around it but that only came up to DS's chest and he's only just under 2 at the moment. It has no guard over the top.
They tried to reassure me by saying there is always 2 members of staff outside when the kids are but the garden is quite busy with apparatus, rabbit hutches, summer house etc and it goes around 2 sides of the house/nursery.

Am I worrying about nothing? Everything else was great; they(kids) grow their own veg, climb trees and learn through exploration. Just what I was looking for. I suppose it's the sort of environment in which you'd expect to find a pond but I know it would make me very nervous.
Thanks

My dd also fell into a friend's swimming pool in a garden full of people, and no-one knew anything. It was a sixth sense that told me something was wrong - my dh nearly died of embarrassment as I ran across the garden and leapt into the pool fully clothed (obviously until he realised what had happened). She had just sunk to the bottom and, thankfully, was OK - but told us all about the stars and fairies that she had seen.

As a childminder, I wouldn't be at all happy about a pond that is potentially accessible. I can't see Ofsted thinking that it's a wonderful idea either, however well-supervised it may be. The nursery sounds really lovely, and it surprises me that they wouldn't automatically put a decent cover over the top of the pond.

Another short answer - yes. If they cannot appreciate how dangerous an uncovered pond is then they are not taking the children's best interests into consideration. Shame if it really is a good school!!

Thank you everyone for your views.
I have checked the ofsted report and they actually mention it as a positive saying that the nursery use it not only as a tool to teach about nature but also to teach about water safety. The trouble is DS is the type of boy who would sit and carefully listen to all that then still try to get in as he would find it so interesting.
I phoned back this afternoon and asked the owners if they ever considered putting a grill over the top and they said no because then the children would never learn how to show respect for the dangers of water. She told me she disagreed with stairgates for the same reason. I still close mine at night in case he falls in a sleepy haze. Guess I am a little over protective.

I have decided that I don't think I could relax knowing that such a potential risk was there. I actually feel really disappointed as the two other local nurseries are very pushy academic types and I just want him to socialise and play. Oh well, number chanting and reading schemes it is then!

For all of you who mentioned ofsted, it was graded outstanding at the last inspection so I don't think covering the pond is a legal requirement.

just to add (even though you've already made your decision)onesock, that it would worry me a lot, particularly since they seem to think it's a good idea not having substantial safety.

Nurseryvoice, take a look at this

One death is enough for me to say, Yes I would discount it.

Yes, I would disregard the nursery. I can't believe they are allowed to have it.

A child can drown in an inch of water. Even a grille on the pond would leave an inch of water for an exploring child to trip over and land face-down in. How many of you safety-conscious people have turned the knife-block 90degrees so that the knive handles do not poke out towards the kitchen? Is every single packet of cigarettes high above the children's reach or locked away? Eating just one cigarette can poison a toddler. Is the TV bolted onto the unit? A cruising baby can pull a TV over, they're lighter than they look. What about that garden swing? When your children are playing they could swing into each other. Do your children hold hands as you walk along the pavement, or do you let them run ahead - what about the car reversing out of a driveway?

I think sometimes people take safety a bit too far. I bet that none of the things I've mentioned have occurred to most people, yet your willing to slate what sounds like an extremely good nursery on the grounds of that pond - which is fenced and supervised. Yet you can be certain that the nursery has considered every single point that I've mentioned. I know that mine did.

I'm not criticising your decision, onesock. Your child, your responsibility, your choice. But I'm shocked at the sweeping negativity from other Mumsnetters.

Well actually PrettyCandles I would have done all the things you've mentioned (except the cigarettes which are the devils spawn and wouldn't be in the house anyway ). And I'm not claiming to be perfect just cautious before you shout at me! There may be many other things I wouldn't think about. BUT I still think we're all right to say don't touch the nursery with a bargepole because who would forgive themselves if something happened? If you have any misgivings at all where your child's safety is concerned, walk away imho. We are all entitled to our opinion - that's what makes the world (and MUMSNET) an interesting place.

abosultely NOT .. NO WAY WOULD I LET MY CHILD GO TO A NURSERY WITH A POND LIKE THAT .. that's just stupid

I think there is a HUGE difference between 'risks' you take when you are supervising your own child and putting them in a place where you pay for other people to look after them and are worried about the safety of their facilities

YOU WILL NOT BE THERE to watch him .. there will be 2 staff? how about if 2 children fight or fall over .. 1 child each yes? and 14 children running around being ignored

there should be no obvious risks to a child's life

I think you're right and as milward so rightly said, if you are worried about it now, you'll worry all the time he is there

The thought of a pond and young children automatically makes me nervous. I would have made the same decision as you onesock. I would not have been able to relax knowing that there was a hazard at that nursery and my child was there without me. Clearly there are parents like PrettyCandles who it wouldn't concern, otherwise they'd have no children at the nursery. I guess it's whatever floats your boat, if you'll excuse the pun. For me I'd rather "take safety too far" and be kissing my dd goodnight each night.

Yes there's no way I'd touch it with a bargepole. I'd tell them that was the only reason as well. If enough parents tell them that, they'll do something about it.

Oh God that awful story UCM. And possibly one of the most tragic aspects is the bricklayer who didn't stop for fear of being accused of abduction.

No way would I go with it. What would OFSTED say? I think we all know the answer.

Caligula is right I would tell the nursery especially if it is so good in all other asepcts.

For me it would really depend on the fence and how secure it is, having worked at nurseryies where we have to supervise outside areas I am glad none had a pond, its hard enough stopping kids putting sand on each others heads and stopping fights over the ever popular cosy coupe. Easy for 2 carers to be distracted by other things going on. Fence would have to be totaly and utterly child proof, if it was then fine.

Don't have a knife block. Don't smoke. Our TV is not lighter than it looks ([b]I[/b] can't pull it off its stand). Don't have a garden. Get DS to hold hands or at the very least walk right next to me (running ahead -> carrying).

At home there is DS and me, or DS and DH, or DS and me and DH. At this nursery there are lots of children and potentially only two supervising adults. If another child is hurt and needs one-on-one attention there are lots of children and effectively one supervising adults. It depends on the child but, for example, I know my DS is extremely fascinated by water and is more than capable of climbing over a chest-high fence. So for my DS, under those circumstances, I wouldn't risk it. On the other hand my parents have a similar-sized pond in their garden that I wouldn't suggest they cover with a grille, because whenever we're there DS will have at least one-to-one supervision.

You can get grilles that go above the water and would not leave an inch of water for a child to land in -- in fact these are the styles of grille that are recommended if child safety is the priority - as per the ROSPA information that twwtswah linked to earlier.

I may be sensitive but the two-year-old brother of one of my good friends drowned in a small pond when we were seven or eight and it's always stuck with me. He'd been playing with us just the week before.

i would discount it

Had to laugh as all those safety points seem normal to me, perhaps I am an safety freak but hey.

I think that every year I seem to read/hear on the news about a child drowning in a pond! If all it would take is to put a grill on it, then I don't think that is too much to ask. If the Nursery was that great I would offer to pay for it, just so I had my mind at rest.

Pretty Candles, your points are extremely valid, but when someone else is looking after your child, there can't be any niggles or you would drive yourself mad whilst not there. I take responsibility for what happens when my Ds is with me but one of my first CM's gave me niggles when I went to work and it was awful. I couldn't stop worrying and changed them because of this.

I turned up to collect dd early from nursery one day to find one member of staff 'supervising' 14 kids in the garden. The other was wiping tables in the dining room.

The kids were age 14 months - 4. The nursery didn't even get particularly defensive about it - said it's bound to happen now and again when someone's on a break. They were also highly rated by Ofsted.

So you can't assume anything on the basis of regulations - it has to be a common-sense decision. SOunds as though you've already made it.

haven't read the whole thread and don't normally post here as mine are 11 & 14.
But had too.
I would not go there.
dd's friend fell in a pond when he was 18 months old. he is now severly disbled. just not worth the chance. It has tottally changed his life. and caused so much distress to his older brother who saw the after effects.
you could try telling the nursery your concerns and see if they will act on them.
hope I am not repeating any one else

Thanks everyone for your posts.
PC, I understand what you are saying although I am always careful with the knife block and DS knows he must either hold my hand or get in the pram.
However, I think this just seems like an unnecessary risk. I know I can't wrap him up in cotton wool but I also know that there's a difference between when he's with me and when he would be one of 14 other children enthusiastically running around.

I'm not slating the nursery as you suggested, on the contrary, the reason I started this thread was because I was torn between their excellent facilities and ethos and the fact that they have this pond.

I'd probably almost made up my mind that I couldn't feel at ease before I posted but knowing that most of you have also expressed concerns has made me feel happy with my decision.

Thanks again.

Sorry, onesock, I didn't mean to imply that you were slating the nursery, but that others are -when you're the only one who really knows about it.