Nursery top-up fee / 'voluntary' contribution

[Pierrette]

I've posted on this topic before, but feel like things are coming to a head. I've 2 girls who both attend a private nursery for 14 hours each a week. Although the nursery is signed up to the govt scheme and supposedly provides free places (15 hours a week), I have just been billed over £1,000 for this term for both of them (supposedly the difference in the nursery's fees and the local authority grant). In the past, when I had just one daughter at the nursery, and she only did 9 hours, I was billed around £250 per term (which annoyed me, but I paid it). I have some sympathy with these nurseries having to make ends meet if the govt funds don't cover their costs, but £1,000 (£500 each) is hard to swallow when it's supposed to be a free entitlement. The thing is I like the nursery and my daughters are happy there - so I veer between thinking I just won't pay the amount (it is labelled 'voluntary', but you get an invoice and chased if you don't pay), reporting the nursery to the council, or just leaving and trying to find somewhere else. I don't mind paying a bit (and I know lots of nurseries break the rules and charge top up fees), but this is excessive... Has anyone else encountered such a high 'voluntary' payment? Grrrrr.

It's 15 hours a week for 38 weeks only. Are you attending a full year?

No, the nursery closes for the holidays.

No, this isn't right. Nurseries must provide 15hrs per week over 38 weeks completely free of charge. It is your local authority's job to ensure this is being carried out and that providers are NOT charging any kind of top-up fees for the 15hrs.

I would ring your LA.

Can I ask how they've said they have calculated the £1000?

Their fees are quite high (and have gone up massively in the past year), and so it is the difference between the normal fee for 14 hours, and the grant (apparently £666 for 14 hours). I've been asked for £527 for each child.

No then, absolutely not. If they have signed up to the scheme your children are entitled to the 15hrs completely free of charge. No registration fees, no upfront charges, no pay-now reimburse later.

They are in the wrong and you need to let your LA know. I'll try and find you a link. Which council do you come under?

Thanks. I know they're in the wrong (have checked council policy, it's Oxfordshire) but I just wonder if this is common practice and something councils turn a blind eye to, as they know the funding is rubbish and many nurseries would have to close if they didn't get additional funding from parents? (Btw, is that true about no registration fees?! I paid £75 for each child. Even more pissed off now.)

Have a look at the code of practice here

Local authorities are legally obliged to provide 570hrs for 3&4yr olds and it must be free at the point of delivery. And yes providers cannot charge a registration fee.

The whole idea is that it IS free so that EVERY 3 and 4yr old can access it, so if private nurseries sign up to the scheme they must adhere to this. If a child does more than 15hrs then of course they can charge the extra, and possibly at a higher hourly rate than normal to try to claw back the lower rate they get for the first 15hrs.

But if your child does no more than 15hrs then it must be free.

Thanks for that. My two have never done more than the 15 hours, so guess I've been stitched up. The nursery doesn't do full days (just 9-2), so I guess it's hard for them to claw back their costs. That's where my sympathy comes in, but I feel so angry about the registration fee as it's very deceptive to charge (at least the fees were labelled 'voluntary' even if they aren't!). Had to pay the reg fee to secure the places.

I've copied this from the Oxfordshire CC website (sorry it's a bit long), it says clearly that providers must not charge extra - see the last bit in particular.

Will I be expected to make a financial contribution towards my child?s free early education place?

No. You cannot be required to contribute to the cost of the basic free entitlement. Settings are not allowed to charge parents fees in advance for the free entitlement to be refunded at a later date, nor require that extra services are purchased as a condition of taking up the free place.

How is the free place funding paid?
The funding is paid directly to the early years education setting by the local authority.

My nursery is asking for a deposit - can they do so for a funded place?

No, not for a free early years place, but they can ask for a deposit if you are taking up any place which is not part of the free entitlement.

My provider wants to charge for snacks and lunch - can they do that?

A compulsory charge for lunch and snacks is not allowed as part of the free entitlement. You should be able to give your child a packed lunch if they are staying at the setting for lunch, and snacks for snack-time. However, if parents choose to take up lunch or snacks provided, the charges must be agreed in advance.

I pay for extra hours but I am not sure that I am being correctly credited with the free entitlement?

The rates settings charge for additional hours or services is a private matter between the setting and the parent . Your setting should tell you beforehand about any additional charges if your children have more than the free entitlement per week. The statement you receive from your childcare/nursery education setting should clearly show which hours are funded from this free entitlement and which are chargeable to you. You should not be obliged to buy additional hours or pay lunch time charges in order to secure the free entitlement

My child's setting has asked me to make a voluntary contribution and I am worried I may lose my place if I don?t pay it. What can I do?

Settings may raise funds but voluntary contributions must be voluntary and not a requirement of a place. If you have any concerns discuss them with your setting, or contact us directly.

My sons old nursery was doing something similar. Basically, the free allowance was stipulated from 9-12 five days per week. If my son did the 15 hours over 3 days, his free allowance was still just between 9 -12, and I would pay the extra hours myself as a top up, so 2 hours per day paid by me, and 3 hours funded by the council.

Sorry Quint this isn't allowed either (although I think it used to be - have they now changed?)

Providers must now be flexible to accommodate the varying needs of parents, and not just offer 5days x 3hrs as they may have done previously. They should also now offer 3days x 5hrs free, and most now should offer all sorts of other combinations up to a max of 10hrs per day.

Having said that, every LA is different and I'm not sure whether they actually set out their own guidelines within those set out by the DofE but each LA should have an Early Yrs dept that you can contact for confirmation.

Mine went to a private Montessori Nursery, while my nephew went to a local free one.

The extra money paid for the montessori trained staff, 6 acre playground / woods, purpose built premises, it was fab and I accepted that by choosing the nursery I would have to pay. I could see the differences to my nephews one (which was also lovely, but a bit more makeshift in a church hall, older / fewer toys, fewer staff etc).

Our nursery grant used to cover half the fees I budgeted about £1500 a year in extra fees, so similar to you. I used our child benefit to pay for it.

It could have been before they made the changes. Because I was working only three days per week, we did not need a full time place.

Hmmm, problem is I'm topping up the free hours as we don't do extra hours! Thanks for the council info RollerCola, I had looked at this - but I still wonder how widespread the problem is. Are you in the know?

And it's so awkward refuse to make voluntary payments when you are told the govt funding is inadequate. I really worry about feeling unwelcome and my children suffering as a result.

I work for a large nursery group which has nurseries spread over numerous council areas, in England and Scotland. Each LA has slightly different rules and are quite bad at passing on any changes to the nurseries themselves, so to be fair your nursery may well not know that they can't charge extra.

Having said that I think it's been well known for quite some time now - it's the flexibility part that's quite new. We'd be in big trouble if we charged for anything less than 15hrs.

Do you know if everyone pays the 'voluntary' charges?

I think they know alright - each term we get a note about how our 'donations' make up the shortfall. I feel a mixture of sympathy and rage. What to do! (I never would have joined the nursery had I known of the hidden costs, the donations came as a big surprise when I received my fist invoice). Problem is my older girl took so long to settle as she's v sensitive, so would worry about moving her before she starts school.
And no, don't know if everyone pays - have spoken to a few and they all seem to cough up. There are quite a few foreign families who probably aren't aware of the rules...

Have you got the original contract with them? It must specify fee somewhere. Have you agreed to say, paying for snacks or meals? Also looking at the hampshire free nursery entitlement page, it also stipulates that

A child attending one day can claim a maximum of 10 hours

A child attending two days can claim a maximum of 12.5 hours

A child attending three or more days can claim the full entitlement of 15 hours

I assume it'll be in the contract somewhere how you claim for these? Because in the end, you might have signed and agreed that you'll pay for the extra things.

How many months is for the £1000 btw?

Well if you're going to struggle to pay it (£1000 is a lot of 'donation' ) I would ask to meet with the manager and explain your situation. It doesn't have to make things awkward for your girls.

Point out what you know and see what they say about it. I think they're treading on thin ice, but maybe there's a loophole if they call it a donation. But a donation is entirely voluntary surely?

If you feel bad about them losing money, maybe offer half? Or ask if you can pay smaller amounts in installments? It's an awful lot of money to be asked to find for something that should be free. Just explain to them that you really don't want to take your girls out and ask if there's anything they can do to help.

You might find they're alright about it. Maybe they set the charges high in the hope that people won't question them and pay up, giving them a buffer for those that don't/can't.

Yes, you're right - thanks for the advice. One helluva donation as you say! And onelittleBabyGirl, the donation is per term, over £500 for each child - around 13 weeks. There is nothing in my contract about this side of things.

So it's about £38.50 per week. FYI, I looked at my nursery website. (It's a 51 week one). It charges £1.50 for lunch and £1 for tea. Hours above the free entitlement is charged at £4.25 ph. Even if they charge you for the difference between 51 and 38 weeks, and charge you a lunch, it's still no where near the £38.50 they asked you! And as you say, they are only open for 38 weeks. It's far too excessive, and they should have information in the welcome pack/website about the charges. It should be a hidden bill that's never mentioned when you sign on. It's just not right, isn't it?

shouldn't be a hidden ...

If it's £527 per child for a 13 week term, that works out as around £40 I think. That would buy you a whole day at my DD1's day nursery- 10 hours. It is absolute extortion to expect you to pay that for your child's free nursery place.

It's so utterly ridiculous that I would almost say they missed the decimal point off the invoice. I can't believe people are really paying it. I would phone the LA and complain.