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Original poster

shook up by horrible nursery biting incident today(sorry bit long!)

26 replies

lunaturkey · 07/12/2005 21:40

took my ds to visit the school(for the first time) where he starts reception in the new year and took my dd (20 mths) to the parent and toddler group too
she was acttacked (and i mean attacked) by another little girl of 17 months .
they had been playing on the see saw dont think the other child wanted her to get on at first but then they shared happily for a minute or two with us mums there. then when my dd decided to get off the other little girl got mad and kept trying to push her .her mum said 'shes a little toughie ' and i said dont worry shes used to her big brother pushing her about a bit.
10 minutes later id almost forgotten this the other children were eating there toast round a table at he other side of the room my dd was playing near me and i was talking the little girl who had pushed dd before marched from the table over to dd pushed her over (with her shoulders and head not a little push with her hands) jumped on top of her pinned her to the ground and bit her hard right at the side of the eye.
it had all happened before i stopped it.
i could hardly believe that a child so young could be so malicious because the scary thing was the pure intention if it had happened spontaneously as they were playing i could have understood more
it was really nasty and my dd really is very innocent and sweet she just smiles and loves every one.

cant really remember if the mum apologised properly (the lady running the group did) i talked to mum later and said i didnt blame her but to be totally honest i dont know if thats true cause i cant help thinking what sort of environment has your child encountered to be able to behave like that.she said she has older sister with 'problems'
i obviously can blame the other baby and i know 'blaming' is really right but i cant help but feel angry
apart from this incident the toddler group and every one there was lovely.i have said ill go next week but will probably feel pretty aprehensive when the time comes
incidentally the lady(a grandma) sat next to me when it happened was a nursery nurse said it was the worst incident she had ever seen

OP posts:
Mincepiedermama · 07/12/2005 21:56

That's a big reaction from one so young. Very upsetting for you. You don't expect such violence and anger at this age do you?

Is your dd OK?

Original poster
lunaturkey · 07/12/2005 22:06

yes thanks mincespider (like your chrissie name btw) shes forgot about it now i hope it was truly shocking though i fell stupid for not intervening sooner but there was no way i thought it would end up that bad. i gave her some arnica for her eye and luckily its not bruised too much
the irony is its a nice school and everyone else there was brilliant

OP posts:
kleist · 07/12/2005 22:21

Gosh, this is ever so hard isn't it. My dd's 3 and just a week ago when visiting a friend she was badly hurt by the other little girl who pretty much teased, goaded, and physically attacked mine. I saw her whack her over the head hard enough to knock her over twice. And later at bathtime I noticed she had bruises on her bottom and thigh which she told me the other girl had done by pinching her when they were playing in her room. Her mother is in a bit of a state with PND and a new baby so I tried to handle it as best I could. I hope your little dd is ok ...

Sorry I only have sympathy, not an answer.

nzshar · 07/12/2005 22:24

awwww lunaturkey i really feel for you. Sounds like this little girl has a lot of anger and unfortunately your dd was in the firing line today.

Mincepiedermama · 07/12/2005 22:26

When I was picking up my 3.5 year old from a party at the weekend, the birthday girl was hissing at him, 'Go away. You're can't come to my party again. Get out.!'.
I had no idea what was going on. He carried on smiling sweetly at her and saying, 'Happy birthday. Bye bye.' It was really odd that he didn't seem to be affected by her aggression at all. I know my dd would've been mortified in the same situation.
It's probably more upsetting for the mums than it is for the kids though.

kleist · 07/12/2005 22:44

I don't know. My dd was VERY upset after the afternoon with my friend's cross little girl. And she gets upset now when she talks about it.

GemgleBells · 07/12/2005 22:48

I don't know what to say. I'm so angry for you. Have the group said anything to this girl's mother? Is she allowed to come back next week? or have they asked her to stay away for a little while?

Just shocked!

Original poster
lunaturkey · 08/12/2005 08:13

gemglebells dont think she will be 'barred' as the lady running group said she had never bitten anyone before -and it was our first time and she is a regular - think she probably already has a reputation though- i am prepared to give her and it another chance -its a big lesson for me -to open my eyes as to what children even this young can be like
maybe she hasnt bitten before cause other mums intervened sooner or maybe (hopefully) its a one off

sorry for all spelling mistakes/lack of punctuation etc in post (just read it) i had dp hovering over waiting to get back on his online gaming (hes a big saddo!)

OP posts:
Original poster
lunaturkey · 08/12/2005 08:15

oh mean 'blaming isnt really right' (of course)

OP posts:
Original poster
lunaturkey · 08/12/2005 08:18

kleist your poor dd too

cant help felling sorry for the kids that are behaving badly too cause they cant be happy with whatever is goying on in there lives

OP posts:
misdee · 08/12/2005 08:23

i'm sorry your dd was bitten.

siblings/parents being ill/with problems can affect kids greatly, i know it has affected my kids, dd1 is more lippy and stroppy, dd2 went through a violent stage a couple of months back. even now she does, she whacked her sister in the mouth with a broom and made her bleed.

Original poster
lunaturkey · 08/12/2005 08:26

aw how old are your kids misdee ?

OP posts:
misdee · 08/12/2005 08:28

dd2 is 3, she was 2yrs old when peter fell really ill and was in and out of hospital most weeks, dd1 is 5years old.

Original poster
lunaturkey · 08/12/2005 08:57

how is peter now ? i was on in summer when he was in hospital but i havent done much mumsnetting recently. i often think of you and hope youre all ok (i know that sounds a bit corny) but i do !

OP posts:
throckenholt · 08/12/2005 09:22

one of my twins is a biter - but only in the heat of the moment and only with his brothers (although that is still bad enough). As you say the premeditation is the worrying thing.

In your situation I would have been concerned with the message given to the little girl by her mother - in that situation I would have given lots of attention to your dd, and then taken my child home, telling her clearly that biting is not allowed, and she will not be able to go to playgroup if she behaves like that. And keep a very close eye on her in the future in similar situations.

I once had a friend whose little boy picked on toddlers smaller than him (biting, pushing, pinching), and annoyingly she only ever said "oh - that's not nice" and did nothing else - which given the repeated nature of the behaviour was not very effective.

Original poster
lunaturkey · 08/12/2005 09:31

she sat her on the naughty chair for about 10 mins and told her off but i thought that the best thing would have been to take her home and then the child learns that if she does something so unacceptable she cant stay in the nice environment she likes playing in
seems that would be the best lesson and the easiest/most direct way of letting her know its wrong to bite

OP posts:
kleist · 08/12/2005 11:03

misdee is right, usually really violent behaviour in kids is happening for a reason, I don't believe they are 'naturally' cruel to other children. Although they do seem to take a while to understand that other people / children actually have feelings ... I didn't get mad at my friend's dd because this behaviour is new and is, I think, more or less directly related to my friend's new baby / PND / partner very absent. BUT it does leave one in a tricky situation because your duty is also to protect your own child and by the end of a few hours of really non-stop vile behaviour by friend's dd I was ready to really shout at the girl. Which I hate the thought of having to do.

Somehow or other for the violent child's own sake someone has to intervene or they will end up an outcast, avoided by mums and other kids. Or, as has happened to some mums I know, banned from toddler groups and nurseries. Awful.

Anothermum · 08/12/2005 20:36

I have (well, I hope had, but not sure) a violent biter. I had a very miserable time for over a year (age 18 mo to 2.5yr), when I knew he would attack anyone - especially other children who weren't doing what he wanted. He often appeared to attack in an unprovoked way, though didn't save up his range for an attack later. I used to keep a VERY close eye on him, standing no more than 1 foot away at all times (made for a prety boring toddler group time for me). I would, however, react fairly blandly at the time, so I guess other mums may have been as aghast as you. I did this for two reasons (1) it was the advice I had ben given by the HV and family care worker I had asked for help, and (2) I was constantly trying not to burst into tears over it. If I had stayed away, I would have simply not seen anyone from Mon am to Fri pm, and gone off my trolley. None of his attacks were as bad as this sounds.

DS is now a little less violent, though not reliably so (I am usually contantly bruised) and has a diagnosis of autism, which explains his behaviour, but was not obvious at the time.

I worry constantly about what reputation I have got as a lax mother and DS has got as a violent boy, I was absolutely doing the best I could at the time, but that was prbably not apparent to other mothers, especially as I was too embarrassed to talk about the struggles I was having.

PeachyPlumFairy · 08/12/2005 21:25

Yes, my Sam did this (and still does but rarely) as a toddler, went on to get DX of AS.

It does sound like an awful lot of anger though, and if she doesn't go on to develop ASD symptoms, then I'd say she has a tough time at home.

I wouldn't necessarily blame the Mum though: I used to get very down following Sam about all the time, and I bet I looked very lacklustre to other people. truth was I was surviving on 4 hours sleep a night at that point, and doing my best.

Original poster
lunaturkey · 10/12/2005 15:18

thanks every one it makes it a bit clearer as to why this little girl behaved like that

OP posts:
hercules · 10/12/2005 15:32

My sister has a little boy who often acts like that and he has been banned before from a playgroup. He has had an awful upbringing and my sister adopted him when he was 2. I know it's a horrible thing to happen but it doesnt mean too much in a 17 month old baby.

hercules · 10/12/2005 15:33

In fact it makes meeting up really difficult as my dd ends up in tears most of the time.

merglemergle · 10/12/2005 18:37

Hi lunaturkey, very for your dd, I remember spending most of last year looking out for ds cos he was always being hit etc by bigger kids. Its vile, isn't it?

Would question though whether a child of 17 months can premeditate to this extent? Would certainly not worry about going back next week! They are both babies really and unfortunately a lot of biting and hitting goes on. Remeber you are perfectly entitled to protect your child, don't let social niceties stop you from telling this or any other kid NOT to push/bite/attack etc.

Unfortunately my 2 yo ds has just started "shunting" a la Thomas. It is vile, we are turning into playgroup pariahs. He does not realise he is hurting other kids (he is not angry with them) BUT will often "target" the same child repeatedly simply because he has played with them or interacted with them so assumes they are friends. He never ever goes for his little sister or indeed anyone smaller than him (because "babies get sad sometimes".)

We are your tv-restricting, no sugar-and-colourings, homeopathic,"we don't hit we talk about what is making us angry" etc etc types. (Maybe this is the problem!) We are pretty zero tolerance on violence though-strict time outs. And I do not accept "boys will be boys" and thus can knock the cr*p out of each other, nor the "ban guns but not swords" approach.

I've never come across a child being banned for fighting! Not at 17 months! But I suspect the mother is mortified and might not even come next week. I hope your dd is okay, and well done for being so understanding of the other child. (I remember when a 18 month old rode his bike slightly too close to my 6 month old ds at toddler group-I was very displeased-despite it actially being toddler group not babies group..!)

merglemergle · 10/12/2005 18:41

should say ds has been assesed for AS (delayed speech- never stops now tho!) and is def not AS so this is not the problem. Just loves Thomas too much and likes to act out the stories.

DoesntChristmasDragOn · 10/12/2005 19:06

Can I just compare the reactions to this thread with this one where the posters child was called an "attacker" and everyone said how OTT and melodramatic the man who'd used the phrase had been.

As it happens, I do believe children of this age can "attack" and premeditate to this extent - I've seen it happen. - but I thought it was interesting how the reactions of other MNers was different depending on the role of the OPs child.

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