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OFSTED has banned 'time out' in nursery education

70 replies

merovingian · 17/08/2011 12:51

My spouse is a nursery teacher and told me this week that OFSTED have banned the use of 'time out' in nursery education.

This means, for example, that if Child A bites Child B, rather than taking Child A aside and telling them that this is a bad thing to do and putting them on their own for 5 minutes to make the point, they have to take Child A to a different activity with different children and... that's it.

I was also told that the word 'naughty' is banned. I'm not sure if this is also an OFSTED rule or whether it's just this particular nursery, but nonetheless I was astonished. Why can't you say 'naughty'? Because it has bad connotations, I was told.

Neither my spouse nor any of the other teachers at the nursery can believe the rule about time out. They are astonished. It leaves them with practically no recourse whatsoever to demonstrate to a child that what they have done is a particularly bad thing that they should not do. All they can do now is raise their voice.

I'll say that again: the ONLY way a nursery teacher can express to a child that what they just did was very bad is to raise their voice. A 'good' child might not like that and might learn. A regularly misbehaving child, I am told from my spouse and other teachers, will take absolutely no notice whatsoever of a raised voice. In fact it can even encourage serial misbehaviour as the intended goal of getting attention is attained. Being left in a corner for 5 minutes does not give the child the attention they crave and, in the teachers experience, can correct misbehaviour if it is done appropriately.

In my opinion this continual erosion of disciplinary actions teachers have at their disposal will render them little more than daycare supervisors. Now, depending on the nursery your child is at, perhaps that isn't a big change. my spouse works at a very highly regarded nursery where the development of children's mental and social capacities is actively encouraged. These children spend the vast majority of their waking hours with these teachers, and in most cases I know for a fact that they spend considerably more time with the teachers than they do with their parents.

I believe such measures by OFSTED are in reaction to fear of litigation, and nothing else.

These teachers aren't beating the children in any way, aren't abusing them mentally with harsh discipline; they are educating children about right and wrong in a way that the child can understand and acknowledge (ideally). Simply giving the child something and/or someone else to play with when they do something that would previously have warranted time out is teaching that child, in my opinion, absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

OP posts:
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DuelingFanjo · 17/08/2011 12:54

no opinion really. Is it true? Do you have a source?

merovingian · 17/08/2011 12:56

As noted, my source is my spouse who works at a nursery. The change was related to staff sometime in the last 2 or 3 weeks. I won't be naming my source or the nursery for obvious reasons :)

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JeanBodel · 17/08/2011 12:57

Don't believe this, to be honest.

Sounds like you wanted a rant and found an eye-grabbing title to go with it.

merovingian · 17/08/2011 12:58

Yes, I'd heard that being accused of being a liar or being incorrect was the sort of response I'd get here. Didn't believe it until now.

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Danthe4th · 17/08/2011 13:00

I don't use 'time out 'but many call it something different like 'time for reflection' and I would never call a child naughty as its the behaviour I don't like and not the child.
I would like to see where ofsted have actually banned it or have the nursery been pulled up for the way they have used time out and been overheard telling a child they are naughty.
Have you a link to read the document .

JeanBodel · 17/08/2011 13:01

Thanks for proving my point!

merovingian · 17/08/2011 13:02

Well, I have a formal request for clarification in with OFSTED so I will see what they say. I just figured people here with children in nursery education would have an opinion on the persistent erosion of the discipline techniques available to teachers. Instead, people are more interested in attacking the n00b. Sad to say that matches what I've been told about mumsnet regulars :(

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pozzled · 17/08/2011 13:04

Well I find it hard to believe as well. I don't think that you or your spouse is lying. I think that the person who told your spouse was misinformed or had misunderstood some guidance.

I'm not entirely convinced that OFSTED have the power to ban time out, but if they did they would have to set out their own recommendations for dealing with bad behaviour. More likely they have said something like they 'don't recommend the use of time outs below a certain age' or 'would recommend that other forms of dealing with the behaviour are explored first'.

cjbartlett · 17/08/2011 13:05

Hi
Welcome to mumsnet
Hopefully you'll get some nursery teachers on here soon
But I know at my daughters nursery they still use time out

merovingian · 17/08/2011 13:06

"Thanks for proving my point!"

I didn't prove your point in any way. You had a go at me.

I don't really know what I can do to 'prove' this other than go and record the opinions of all the nursery teachers I socialised with at the weekend who were gobsmacked about the change.

If it so offends you to consider this might be true without actual documentary evidence (which I am seeking to provide for you) I don't see why a discussion could not be had about whether or not teachers are having more and more techniques taken away from them.

I welcome the opinion about the word 'naughty', for example. It is a differing opinion to the one I had when I posted but it is put well and I can see the point. What I don't react well to is being attacked in a typical 'Internet Argument' way simply because someone doesn't like me or my opinion for some reason (actually I genuinely can't work out why you attacked me, Jean).

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JosieRosie · 17/08/2011 13:07

merovingian, I'm sorry you've had arsey responses here ALREADY Hmm Some people......

Re a 'timeout' ban, I really hope this is not true - I'm an Early Years professional myself and think that 'time out' is a fair and reliable strategy. Not a fan of the word 'naughty' at all and don't think it should be used with children.

Anyway, I hope you haven't been put off and that you will come back and let us know what OFSTED say. Thanks Smile

merovingian · 17/08/2011 13:07

"But I know at my daughters nursery they still use time out"

Interesting! I will enquire further this evening when spouse returns. The way the story was told made it sound like this wasn't a school-specific directive, so perhaps it is open to interpretation and it's the management of the school that are choosing to enforce it this way. Not the way it was presented to staff, though.

Thanks for your input :)

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thestringpeople · 17/08/2011 13:07

I worked in a nursery as a stop gap for a while. The word naughty was never used and I agree with this as if you label a child it can have a negative impact. Time out was used and it was effective. I really can't see a problem with time out. When a child is displaying aggressive or destructive behaviour it is often because they are tired or frustrated, giving them time out gives the other children a break and it gives the child in question a break from their own behaviour. Moving them onto another activity and not giving them time to have a breather doesn't help anyone.

pozzled · 17/08/2011 13:09

OK, to answer your question. I would be very annoyed if nurseries couldn't use time outs as I think they are effective and fair when used appropriately.

I don't have a problem with nurseries using the word naughty as long as it's labelling the behaviour ('that was a naughty thing to do') rather than the child ('you're being naughty'). However, I wouldn't mind if they couldn't say this, I think there are better ways of saying the same thing: 'We don't hit because it hurts' 'You need to listen so that you will know what to do' etc.

merovingian · 17/08/2011 13:10

"Not a fan of the word 'naughty' at all and don't think it should be used with children."

I should be clear that this wasn't a new thing, since my spouse has been a nursery teacher it has been policy to find other ways to tell a child they shouldn't do something they just did rather than telling them they have been naughty. I find it interesting how words may affect a child in ways I had not thought of.

Having said that, I don't really see why it's a bad thing to say to a child, "You shouldn't do that, that's a naughty thing to do and we don't do naughty things, do we?" although I'm very open to learning the psychology behind it.

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JosieRosie · 17/08/2011 13:14

What pozzled said really. It's more important for children to learn the consequences of their actions, rather than an arbitrary label. And not everyone would be able to restrict themselves to just labelling the action, not the child! Personally, I would put in the same category as 'lazy', 'stupid', 'slow' - unkind and unnecessary words which are not appropropriate for children.

Memoo · 17/08/2011 13:15

Just asked my friend about this, she is foundation stage leader at a local school and she hasn't heard about any ban on using time out.

Insomnia11 · 17/08/2011 13:16

Children shouldn't be labelled as a 'naughty child' as it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I don't see anything wrong with calling a behaviour naughty.

Avinalarf · 17/08/2011 13:19

Time out is stupid for kids of that age. It doesn't work, imo. I hate all that 'naughty step' guff, too.

And 'naughty' isn't a specific enough word, imo. It's much more effective to use specific, descriptive words e.g. 'that behaviour was unkind / spoiled the game / hurt Johnny's feelings etc', so that children know exactly what it is they have done wrong and have a chance to correct it, rather than going away with the feeling they are, in themselves, bad.

Just my opinion, fwiw.

MountainDew · 17/08/2011 13:19

"Time out" is a poor technique for building positive relationships with children anyway. I hope it has been banned.

Insomnia11 · 17/08/2011 13:23

With my own daughters the use of the word naughty re certain behaviour plus occasional use of naughty step has worked I'd say. Childminder uses time out/naughty step effectively too.

LynetteScavo · 17/08/2011 13:25

I think using a time out chair has been frowned on by OFSTED for a while....and I think it will depend on individual inspectors as to what they actually say to settings about it.

When DS2 was at nursery he sometimes had to go into the office "for a little think", which I had no objection to, but was glad that by the time he went to reception they had done away with the "dinosaur chair" which had been in use when DS1 was in that class.

pozzled · 17/08/2011 13:42

Those of you who don't like or agree with time out, what would you use instead? Say for a child of around three who had hit enough child, been told not to and then done it again shortly afterwards?

inmysparetime · 17/08/2011 16:23

I am a nursery nurse, we never use the word "naughty"at my nursery as it is unprofessional. We give immediate care to the victim, then go to the aggressor and encourage them to see the consequences of their actions and apologise e.g. " you have hurt your friend, see the Mark on her arm. You have made her sad. Are you ready to apologise?" When they are ready to apologise the victim is called over. After the apology the victim is asked if it's OK now and they are both asked "are you friends again?" to ensure the situation is resolved before they return to their play. If I see a situation about to explode, usually a stern look and "step away now x" is enough to keep a lid on things, then a quiet talk to the child about the choices he may make e.g. If you walk over the model you will knock it over, you could walk this way instead.
I'm not a big time outer but sometimes parents specifically ask us to do it to support strategies they use at home. I prefer to stop situations than "firefight" after the event.

tethersend · 17/08/2011 17:04

Time Out in it's true sense is already illegal, unless special dispensation is given from the LEA.

A child (of any age) should not be forced to spend time alone in a room against their will.

Removing a child to a corridor or to another room whilst supervised and/or the door left open so they can leave when they wish is allowed, as is sitting the child somewhere away from others within the classroom.

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