DS missing at nursery - please tell me that this isn't right?

[namechange999]

DH went to pick DS (2.5 yrs) up from nursery - the NNs couldn't find him, eventually after calling him and getting no response (and getting abit panicky) DH found him in the bathroom 'washing his hands'/flooding the entire place, NNs didn't seem bothered that they didn't even know where he was nevermind that he had been in the bathroom for an unknown amount of time.

I am pissed off to say the least, he's only in for 3 afternoons a week and I honestly feel like they don't care and ripped off to be paying for them to not keen an eye on him. Also there was only 5/6 other children so not as if they were mad busy either. I know you need eyes in the back of your head with toddlers but my gut feeling is that he isn't getting looked after properly - can any MNers give me advice please, had a bad day at work too and am feeling abit emotional - am I overreacting and what's your suggestions? See the Manager or even start looking for alternative childcare?

Wish I was a SAHM

Sorry, misread it happened yesterday. I would expect the manager to ask to have a word with you when you drop off. I'd wait to see if that happens and if it doesn't then that is pretty damning.

Ds used to go to the loo near pick up time. The staff always knew where he was.

I would be extremely concerned that they didn't know where he was and that he'd been left alone long enough to get into mischief. Are the loo cleaning products kept safely locked away? They should be able to look after six children without losing one, FGS!

DO see the manager, make sure she's recorded it in the incident book and make sure she explains fully what action she's taking to ensure that children are safe at all times. And given you already have concerns, then yes, I'd be looking for other childcare.

ds was at a lovely nursery which went downhill suddenly when the manager moved on - lots of staff changes, very disruptive. I ended up moving him.

at 2.5 in my son's nursery (well he was 2.9 m but one of the eldest in the group) , they all lined up nicely at the door, all went to the toilet at set times and if any needed to go inbetween times a NN would take said child and another if they needed it out to the toilet. (and this was a converted bungalow so hardly a huge building the distance was literally no further than the front door to the end of someone's hall way.

it's good practice, i'd be demanding to know why the NN didn't know where they were tbh.

Pls look for alternative childcare, that sounds like a dangerous environent.

Are you happy with the nursery otherwise?

If you feel bad about the nursery then this may be the thing you need to make up your mind about moving him.

I think that once the trust has gone - and you are obviously not happy having him there, then it is difficult to get that back. And you have to feel that your DS is in good hands, otherwise you will worry all day.

Oh don't worry MollieO I'll be seeing the Manager - I'll give her a chance to speak to me first though - if she doesn't then I think you're right - it would be pretty damning that she hadn't even been told.

Im not going to sleep much tonight over this. I'm going to speak to DH again and ask him in detail just exactly what he saw, NNs responses (they didn't apologise), let him see this thread. It used to be a cracking nursery but new Management seem to be abit lax about standards. I've always been abit uneasy about the staff:children ratios for childcare - personally I'd find it hard to look after 4 toddlers so Im trying to be understanding but at the same time realise that what happened today wasn't right/safe.

I always thought under 3's were a ratio of 1 to 3?

keep calm tomorrow, tbh I expected DS to go to the loo on his own in the pre school rooms (upstairs) BUT they had a designated loo area within the room where the children could go to happily and the nurses knew where they were. very very lax - i'd worry what the security is like (example at ours you had to introduce anyone who'd not been to collect the child before, or ring up with a very accurate description & also give said person a password which was known to you and the manager only). Do agree once trust with ones provider is gone i'm not sure i'd look to try and get it back - there would always be a doubt for me. (and i'm quite relaxed tbh with most things but the security/safety of one's child can't be compromised when it comes to nurseries etc)

Thanks everyone, once I get the kids to bed I'll start to have a proper think/discuss with DH about it, Davidtennantsmistress - the security system is very similar at DSs nursery, but I know what you mean about trust issues - to be honest I have always had worries/guilt issues with having DS in nursery (thanks to some family members).

To be letting a 2.5 wander about to the bathroom on his own is terrible. Not to know where he was is worse.

I look after 2 year olds (one 2.5) who is still in nappies anyway and even to let them wash their hands i couldn't let them do it own their own, even if I had a low sink like most nurseries have.

My bathroom is off my kitchen anyway but I have mindees in sight at all times as anything could happen.

I would never let a toddler go to the bathroom on their own anyway as dangers of water/falling against sinks, slipping, eating soap.

Even if they were potty training I would be there supervising and helping them.

In answer to your question namechange yes there were big changes instigated as a result of this.

DS has ASD (although at the time we were unaware of it, he was still not speaking - we just thought he had some developmental delays) so someone saying "Children line up" would have meant nothing to him.

In fairness to the nursery, they did tell me when I picked him up - given he was non verbal they could have got away with not telling me at all and I would have been none the wiser.

They started taking a register outside with them and counted them all in and out and had a counter signatory to verify that this was done. They also did a full review of all their other procedures and made some changes to them.

Scarfmaker - that is all well and good saying you would be supervising your potty training child all the time, but in a nursery you just can't do that, at some point you have to let them be independent and let them do it themselves.
Thats not to say that we don't supervise the children, more that we supervise coming back to them repeatedly instead of just sitting there with them.

Namechange999 - it is extremely bad that the nursery didn't care where he was, and i would complain about that issue. I def think that children sneak into the bathroom to have fun, our bathroom is in our room, and we see the children go in and out, (only potty trainers, and trained are allowed in) cause they think it is fun, and they love playing in the water, and flooding the bathroom (grrrr) so it maybe that he sneaked off and that is why they didn't know where he was however it is still incredibly bad that they were unsure of his whereabouts.

OP how did you get on today?

Ok sorry this has been the first time I could get here!

Discussed with the Manager - she apologised and was clearly dissapointed (and sounded abit pissed off) that it had happened and that no one told her. Apparently it is their policy to always have a NN with any child in the toilets (again, I forgot to ask but will next time I see her how this is possible with regards the ratio thing). She then had a meeting and they, as a result of this have changed procedures - the toilet door (wasn't aware there was one!) will be kept shut, all children (for his age group 2/3 yrs anyway as far as I know) will be accompanied at all times in the toilets.

I on my part have told DS that the toilet is for weeing/pooing and not playing with water/sinks/loos - I have been gently doing his nut in reminding him of this fact so hopefully something will sink in

Thanks everyone for your advice - hopefully this will be the first and last incident of this kind, he loves Nursery and has made good little friends there - it would be a shame to have to move him because they wern't fulfilling an essential aspect of their service - ensuring safety.

Hopefully things will improve. It is one thing to improve procedures but it a completely different thing to ensure that they are followed. If it were my Ds I would be asking the manager what she intends to donanout that. There was an incident so why wasn't it noted in the incident report?

To do about that ...

Regarding ratios, it is my understanding that it can be relaxed if a staff member needs to go to the loo, or to the store cupboard etc so maybe escorting kidlets to the loo is included in that? However, with that age group there must very often be a child needing the loo.
Of course a very good nursery will have more staff that the minimum requirement so it should not be an issue.
It does sound like you had a good meeting with the manager. I really hope things are OK from now. It's very hard to move a child from a nursery you're otherwise happy with.

Ratios apply across the building for staff who are working (not on lunch for example), they're not limited to particular rooms. A member of staff changing a nappy or escorting a child to the toilets would still be "there" for ratio purposes.

givemushy Yes, that's what I was trying to say; that they are still "there" even if not in the main room. Occassionally it can be alarming to turn up and see loads of toddlers and one member of staff, then one pops out from the nappy room and one from under a table or something.