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Nurseries

Find nursery advice from other Mumsnetters on our Nursery forum. For more guidance on early years development, sign up for Mumsnet Ages & Stages emails.

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Original poster

Free nursery places for all 3 and 4 year olds?

74 replies

CountessDracula · 11/10/2005 22:26

DD has recently had her 3rd birthday and is at a private nursery in the the borough of Richmond-upon-Thames. It was my belief that when she was 3 the govt would fund a number of sessions a week for her. One of the other mums at nursery told me that Richmond had been deemed not a poor enough area for this!!!!!!!!! WTF??

Bubble99 you may be able to help - or anyone else? Surely they can't discriminate like this? What about very poor people who live in the borough, it's not all millionaires fgs.

OP posts:

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aloha · 17/10/2005 19:13

It's more 'very slightly discounted nursery places' rather than 'free' isn't it?

milward · 17/10/2005 19:18

in france & other eu countries (not the uk!!) your 2.5yr old can go to the local school free of charge from about 7.30am until 18.00 if parents are working - or from 8.45 until 3.30. Good facilities & staff.
How people are expected to afford childcare in the uk is beyond me.

bubble99 · 17/10/2005 19:40

State nurseries, offer a two and a half hour session for 'free.' The cost for two and a half hours care varies between private nurseries. Our nursery (this is not a plug, BTW) charges £4 per hour for full days (10 hours) = £40 per day and £5 per hour for a five hour session=£25 per session. In addition if a parent books four full days= £160, we give the fifth day for free= Full week's full day care at £160 this rate applies from 1 year to 5 years, we do not charge more for children under two.

So, (stay awake at the back, please). Our rate is either £4 or £5 per hour.

CD. The nursery funding should kick-in for the term after your DD is three, which will be January. How many days/sessions does she attend?

tortoiseshell · 18/10/2005 09:26

aloha, it's more than that - each session is given 7.50, so it's £30 a week for 30 or so weeks, which is about £900 altogether.

I only realised how it worked because ds' playgroup charges are totally in line with the grant, and he went for a term before he got the grant.

aloha · 18/10/2005 09:28

I am absolutely sure I do not get a £900 discount.

FangAche · 18/10/2005 09:31

Aloha with the hours your kids are in you will only be entitled to 2 of the 5 "free" sessions as it's pro-rata.
But you're right, they're not free. The government just decide how much an hour of Nursery costs and makes that standard, regardless of how much the Private Nursery fees are.

The space would be free if you were putting them into the state school Nursery 2.5 hrs a day, 5 days a week. Not great is it!

FangAche · 18/10/2005 09:34

Aloha - You should be getting £34 per month off your fees.

Original poster

CountessDracula · 18/10/2005 09:36

spoke to nursery this morning and they confirmed that I would get 5 sessions paid for which would equate to around £90 a month, which is better than a poke in the eye I suppose

OP posts:

tortoiseshell · 18/10/2005 09:44

aloha, I'm really surprised you don't qualify for more than that - last year ds was in private nursery for 1 day, which counted as 2 sessions, and in a privately run (i.e. not state) playgroup for 3 sessions. The playgroup cost me nothing, because the government grant covered it, and they charged 7.50 per session, which is what the grant is. So if I had been paying myself then I would have paid 22.50 per week in term time.

The private nursery, because I paid for every week was more complicated, but I got 2 sessions for 30 weeks paid for - obviously I had to subsidise this because the nursery fees are £16 per session, so what I actually paid was £32 a day (2 sessions) x 52 weeks (£1664) - 2 sessions a week at £7.50 each for 30 weeks ( 7.50 x 2 = £15 x 30 = 450) so the total I paid was 1664 - 450 = 1214.

Given that my day nursery allowed 1 day to be 2 sessions (a session is defined as being a 2.5 hour session) then by my reckoning you are entitled to 4 sessions per week at the Govt rate.

tortoiseshell · 18/10/2005 09:47

SO the amount I was actually entitled to was about £1125, spread over '5' sessions. I would ask the nursery about it - I'm sure you should get more than you are doing.

tortoiseshell · 18/10/2005 09:48

CD - that must be once it's averaged over the year?

tortoiseshell · 18/10/2005 09:50

Government info here

Bozza · 18/10/2005 09:57

Fangache I think the nurseries in your area must operated a different system because throughout the eligible period I got 5 sessions for DS within his 3 days at nursery. ie it is not pro-rata. Although only for 33 weeks of the year. My nursery did not average it over the year. So in August I would be paying full fees but in September I would have £150 or 187.50 knocked off the bill depending whether it was a 4 or 5 week month. Then in October would pay a bit more because of half term and so on.

It made it a bit of a pain for sorting out the vouchers, mind you.

I think Aloha should be getting 4 sessions in her 2 days. And I really think you should mention it Aloha.

Enid · 18/10/2005 10:00

your friend was probably right last year CD. Until last year, my postcode meant that we didnt get a 'free' place until dd1 was 4. The law has changed and now all postcodes operate the 'free' places the term after the 3rd birthday. sorry if someone has already said this.

Enid · 18/10/2005 10:01

I get roughly £200 back on a £900 bill.

aloha · 18/10/2005 10:02

I will have a chat with the nursery manager when I next go in, I think. Sort of, can you explain how it works because I don't understand.

FangAche · 18/10/2005 10:05

Bozza - I was calculating it from the number of HOURS Aloha's children spend over 2 days. I get 5 sessions free for my ds being in 3 full days too.

You can only use 2 x 2.5hr sessions in one full day at most private Nurseries.

So if they only spend a half day there then you can only claim one free 2.5 hr session.

Aloha's kids are in 12hrs a week over 2 days = 6hrs per day = a half day.

Therefore 2 half days = 2 x 2.5hr sessions free.

Its worked out the same way all over the UK.

FangAche · 18/10/2005 10:07

Bozza - I was calculating it from the number of HOURS Aloha's children spend over 2 days. I get 5 sessions free for my ds being in 3 full days too.

You can only use 2 x 2.5hr sessions in one full day at most private Nurseries.

So if they only spend a half day there then you can only claim one free 2.5 hr session.

Aloha's kids are in 12hrs a week over 2 days = 6hrs per day = a half day.

Therefore 2 half days = 2 x 2.5hr sessions free.

Its worked out the same way all over the UK.

freakyzebra · 18/10/2005 10:20

Incidentally, since the topic came up...

Govt. is talking about funding 38 weeks (rather than the 33 weeks currently) and extending to 3 hours funded (rather than the 2.5 hours currently) and to children from the 2nd term after they are 2 (rather than the first term after they are 3). They are doing consultations on this at the moment.

The pre-school I do volunteer work for reckons that all that is pretty much a sure thing, with 38 weeks funded coming in start of next April, and 3 hour sessions from January 2007. Not sure about funding for under 3's thing, probably 2007-2008.

tortoiseshell · 18/10/2005 10:22

I guess it depends on how the nursery charge - ds' nursery charges by session, not by hour, so if aloha's was the same it would qualify as 4 sessions per week.

Bozza · 18/10/2005 10:26

See what you mean Fangache. I looked at Aloha saying it was 9 til 4 which I took as covering a morning and an afternoon session. At our nursery they are specific that the morning session is 9 -11.30 and the afternoon is 1-3.30. I know some people send their kids 9 til 3.30 and just pay for the lunchtime period (my friend does this). Although I think they are phasing this out because obviously proper full or half day sessions are more lucrative.

titchy · 18/10/2005 10:34

Since when did 6 hours a day equal a half day????? 6 hours a day is the same as two half days or 2 x 2.5 hour sessions, so Aloha should be getting 4 sessions worth of grant knocked off her bill.

tortoiseshell · 18/10/2005 10:54

i would have thought 9-4 was a full day tbh, it's longer than a school day, and if ds had done a morning session then afternoon session at playgroup (which would have got the full 2 session payment) times would have been 9.15-11.45 then 12.15 till 2.45.

FangAche · 18/10/2005 12:43

Titchy - I'm only telling you the rules of the Private Nurseries around here!!! 6 hrs isn't a half day, but unless you are paying for the full day rate (set rate 8-6) then it can't be classed as a fullday either!!!!! Its in between.

The rules of the Private Nursery state that only one session can be used in anything less than a fullday rate. So if Aloha (for example) only has her kids in there 9-4 but pays the full day rate she can claim for 2 full Pre-school sessions! Anything less than that then the Nursery would only allow her to claim for one pre-school session!

Most Nurseries will offer an hourly rate, a half day rate, and a full day rate.

Is that a better explanation????

Its completely at the discretion of the Nursery though, so some will be different. But the ones I've spoken to around here either do it that way, or are not in conjunction with the Council at all.... so don't have to option to claim back from the government.

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