Autism and foreign languages

[tobee]

My dd is a mfl graduate and diagnosed with autism after graduating.

My late mil was also good at languages and I think was probably also autistic.

The two people I knew at secondary school who were brilliant linguists I think, looking back, could also have been autistic.

Just intrigued if posters have comments or thoughts on this.

(Fwiw my dd always complains that people assume if you are autistic you are interested in IT. )

Doesn't the programme teach it? Like, the presenter, and the whole "look.... you sign.."....?

My young adult DS has autism and MFL was by far his worst subject area at school, he was allowed to drop them in y9. But he is also dyspraxic and has a language impairment. DD who is dyslexic also finds them impossibly hard and has taken Latin GCSE in lieu of an MFL but hates the language aspect and only enjoys the culture part, it is her worst subject (doing GCSEs now).

Yes my ds who finds mfl very difficult is also dyspraxic

It was trying to be a bit funny post...

He was two and non verbal and used to squat in front of the TV on top of a cabinet watching...

Rather than sitting with me and me encouraging him to learn. His choice to learn it and use it

@BlackeyedSusan my mistake, I misunderstood. It's rather impressive that he chose a way to communicate!

My husband didn't speak until he was five, and his mum said he was always using repetitive gestures and getting frustrated because his family didn't know what they meant. I feel sad for his former little self, trying to be heard without a voice.

I was thinking along these lines, plus decoding and special interests. Maybe even commitment. If I want to learn something I’ll carry on until I do.

In this house 3 definitely are autistic, 1 possibly, 1possible adhd, 1 NT. all good at languages

My son has autism but the one thing he cannot do is learn another language. He didn't learn English 'til he was 4. Then he said ''out mine room'' and that was his first word and his first sentence. Now 16, he cannot unfortunately learn another language. I'm not sure I would link a gift for languages with autism....

No because Makaton is a communication system not a language.

I suspect I have Autism, I was rubbish at French at school but I picked up BSL very easily.

I am dyslexic and a couple of other people on the course who were picked it up quickly too.

BSL does have a logic that English doesn't.

(Fwiw my dd always complains that people assume if you are autistic you are interested in IT. )

I wouldn't say IT, but I have found students with ASD find coding easy and logical, it doesn't mean they are actually interested or enjoy it though!

From my experience those who have great memories for using echolalia can learn languages quite easily. But mainly to speak it.

I know a young lad who is severely autistic with LD who can speak fluently in about 6 different languages - and not your general European ones either!

I couldn't tell you if he could hold a conversation in them because I can't speak them to find out

And yes to coding.

My 17yo ds who is autistic is crap at English (language, spelling and grammar!) and any other languages.

He can code things way beyond the ability he should be able to (mainly self taught) and has just been offered a job with a start up company and is developing software for a new system that's being designed for use by the military!

Interesting question & one I doubt applies to all ND people, but I can relate.

Undiagnosed ND here, but I can see it/score in range in tests when researching for ND DD.

I grew up in a tiny rural community, languages seemed useless to me as a kid, as I didn't see myself travelling anywhere. Consequently I hated French in school & refused to even try. I did well with Latin though, as I had an interest in history & & biology a few other things where Latin was relevant.

I moved away from the area, met people from other lands, by 17 I'd gone to France on my own & picked up basic French in a week. I've since travelled all over the world & similarly picked up the language of the country I was in. I've forgotten most of it down the line though, but seemed to have an aptitude for language when I needed to learn & did pass French language exams I took later down the line for work.

ND DD similarly kicked back at languages in school, but she mentored several non English speaking newcomers to her primary school. She took it very seriously & taught herself a very basic bit of their language to help them feel more welcome. She very quickly picked up more by hanging out with them. On paper she was rubbish at languages, (though excelled in everything else) but when she felt a need to learn, she picked up a language exceptionally fast. By the end of primary, she had a basic grasp of Spanish, Russian, French & Portuguese. She suddenly took an interest in Spanish thanks to a very inspiring teacher & went from 2 years behind (missed school) to a year ahead, in under 6 months. Though doesn't remember most of it now, she can still manage Spanish.

I used to think my easy grasp of languages was because I took Latin in primary onwards. But that doesn't apply to DD & she also seems to pick up languages easily when she needs too

I love this thread, so interesting and it's really nice to read everyone's experiences! I'm waiting for ADHD assessment and I'm fairly sure I'm not autistic.

I love languages and find them quite easy to pick up and can mimic the sounds quite well. To me it feels like a game which I think is why languages hold my interest (as opposed to the many other hobbies that come and go). I always loved secret languages as a child, languages to me feel like unlocking a whole new world. I don't really like learning language rules but am quite good at noticing patterns and applying them. I think this helps with learning new languages too. I find that, though my memory is pretty shocking for most things, I can dredge languages out of the depths even when I haven't used them for a long time - I might be a bit rusty but it comes back and I'd surprised at what I've retained.

I find so many other things really difficult and, if I'm really struggling with something, I remind myself that my ability to learn languages is evidence that my brain isn't completely rubbish, it's just better at some things than others!

@tobee DS is autistic and is studying linguistics. Four years ago while still at school he admitted he could read dozens of languages, no idea how many that might be now. He can speak six or seven. He is also a very good mimic so he does accents well as well.

You DD might want to look into the linguistics Olympiad.

Well I'm glad that I started this thread because the replies are truly interesting; definitely one I can't draw conclusions from. Apart from I can't draw any conclusions from my question!!

My dd has looked into coding as a friend of mine with an autistic ds suggested it for her. However, she can only find self taught courses. The only one she could find that wasn't was very expensive. Self taught would not suit her. Anyone know any coding courses where there is a proper timetable and access to tutors? Or in person? (We live in London) She looked during lockdown so that might have been the problem.

Diagnosed autistic dd andIm seeking diagnosis. By far both our worst subjects!

I was good at homework - Id see the rule (change the end to whatever) and just copy them put following the rule. But woildnt have a clue next time I saw it as it wasnt writtent he same.

Both of us were phobic speaking in class in case we got it wrong and hyper embarassed.

Truky not our superpowers (mine was maths, wish id had coding then! Better career choice. She is good at music and humanities.)

“Born on a Blue Day” might interest. It’s written by an autistic savant who was/is brilliant at languages. He also I think made language courses though I don’t know how good.

I teach MFL and a lot of my autistic students thrive in German. According to them it’s like solving a puzzle, fitting all the pieces together until it’s perfect. It’s a joy to teach them!

@tobee

If she can find a GCSE or A Level computer science course (maybe an evening class) she will be taught coding.

If she wants to have a go then 'Small Basic' is my favorite to start with.

Coding is just breaking down instructions into small clear instructions.

So to program a robot to make a jam sandwich would involve instructions like

open packet of bread
pick up one slice with right hand

The robot does exactly what you tell it to do and if you don't break it down in to small enough instructions it looks something like this

I will sometimes have learning a language as a 'special interest' and it ends up taking over my life. But I do pick it up fairly quickly.

But that really could be because I obsess over the language.

I watch programmes in the language.
Listen to music in that language.
Change my phone to that language.
Look at blogs, Instagram, YouTube and Facebook for others learning that language etc.
it just takes over!
And then after about 6-8 weeks it fizzles out but I do remember quite a lot of it.

I work in IT partly because it was like learning another language and I've a colleague who's there for similar reasons.

I like the patterns in grammar, and comparing them between different languages. I'm not that bothered if I can't speak to anyone though.

I'm autistic and good at learning languages (not speaking them though - that seems to involve different mechanisms! I'm not good at expressing myself verbally in English, either). I can read in some languages that I haven't studied before. I think it's because I'm good at spotting linguistic patterns.

Autistic (I'm sure) with a MFL degree checking in.

@PorkPieForStarters , I think I'm very similar to you. @tobee , really interesting thread.
I excelled in languages at school. Passed 4 at O level, failed English. Did 3 at A level, then a different one at degree level.
I'm not autistic AFAIK.
I think I enjoyed languages at school because the lessons weren't boring. I was, still am, quite talkative so history lessons, for example, with a chalk n talk approach, drove me mad. I would mess about, etc to alleviate the boredom.
I love patterns, too. I hated maths at school, held no meaning, until I trained to teach it, and saw patterns. It all made sense !
I enjoyed teaching Spanish to 11 year olds, especially with other children in the class of different nationalities. So, we would see the noun 'information ' in English become informacion, information, informazione ( Spanish, French, Italian respectively), and rather than teach random vocabulary, we'd look at patterns.
Sorry for the essay - I'm very passionate about languages.

I'm very good at languages and think it's definitely a pattern spotting thing.

I don't really need to be 'taught' a language...I just look at sentences and work out what all the different bits are doing and extrapolate that. For example, I looked at some Romanian and noticed the word 'baiatul'. I had already worked out from the context that 'baiat' was 'boy', so in this context 'ul' must be the definite article, used as a suffix. So then 'omul' must mean 'the man', and so on. I wondered if there was a different definite article for feminine nouns and looked in the text for an example of one and yes, it's different. So I file that away in my brain as something to remember and apply.

When speaking the new language, I try to create sentences based on the grammar rules I've deduced and extrapolated and what I've heard other people say. Sometimes my assumption will be wrong, for example, if the verb is irregular, or I've misheard what someone else said, and then I get corrected, and I remember for next time.

The way most neurotypicals seem to learn languages looks very monotonous and laborious to me. Lists of words out of context, endless grammar exercises, hardly any speaking or listening. I use Duolingo for the very basics and then just start watching stuff on Netflix or reading newspapers and use pattern spotting to fill in the blanks.

I've recently been diagnosed with ADHD and my psychiatrist says I have quite a few autistic traits too although I mask very well.

I love learning languages and think it's one of my strengths. Like others it's the patterns that appeal to me and being able to draw connections with knowledge I already have. I also love the puzzle like nature of a language, especially doing translations.

Whether that's because of my neurodiversities, I don't know. But I do think that my brain is wired in a certain way that makes language learning come easier to me than other subjects.