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Live webchat with Natasha Walter, Thurs 4 Feb at 12.30pm

121 replies

GeraldineMumsnet · 28/01/2010 13:07

Natasha Walter, one of Britain's foremost feminists, has a new book out on Thurs 4 Feb called Living Dolls: The Return of Sexism, about the effect our hypersexualised culture is having on young women and girls.

We're delighted to say that Natasha is coming to the Towers for a live chat on Thurs, from 12.30pm to 1.30pm.

So please post your questions here and hope you can join us.

OP posts:
ABetaDad · 03/02/2010 08:46

Natasha. I am the father of two boys aged 10 and 8. Some girls in their peer group are already beginning to act and dress in a sexualised way and no doubt feel under pressure to copy media images.

Me and my wife feel we will soon be facing an impossible task trying to tell our soon to be teenage boys to respect girls/women when many teenage girls in their peer group will be overtly sending completely the opposite message.

What should me and my wife be saying to our sons?

tatt · 03/02/2010 10:43

I am horrified that a few women (just look at this site) think it is acceptable to tell other women that their bodies are dirty if they don't shave off all their hair. I'm even more horrified that some other women seem to look up to them. I don't want either of my children growing up believing that casual sex with a lot of people will bring them fulfillment. I hate my children being exposed to pornography.
So - am I just getting old and need to start reading the Daily Mail?

Isn't this just an economic issue, really - if women had the choices men do fewer would opt to do pole-dancing and the like. Shouldn't feminisim concentrate on really empowering women by getting them into positions of power?

Karathraceandherspecialdestiny · 03/02/2010 12:12

I feel that there's a paradox in society with regard to the female sex:

Legislation (under the Labour government) has helped give women greater freedom and choices than ever before eg extended mat. leave/flexible working/gender pay gap now being addressed under the equality duty, when it gets passed. Women are also much more sexually liberated than ever before which I think in general is a good thing too (when I was growing up female masturbation was very taboo). So on the one hand, I feel happy that my 3 year old daughter will be growing up in a society that will give her more options.

However, it is also true that the overt sexualisation and objectification of women and increasingly teenagers has got much much worse and is depressing. Role models can be found but these are not usually located on the tv or in glossy magazines (at least niot on the front pages).

If I had to balance it up, I think it's still a better time to be growing up female than it was 20 years ago. I hope the next generation of women will challenge this overt sexualisation - with increasing freedom and power this is more likely. I think we need to put our faith in the next generation a bit more.

Do you agree?

sallyjaygorce · 03/02/2010 12:22

How much do you think early gender stereoptyping contributes to a new wave of sexism? And in Europe is this particular to the UK?

Budget clothing lines in particular are pink and glittery or khaki and mud. I have friends in Norway and Denmark who are amazed by the lack of choice in cheap kidswear. It seems to me that the expectations of gender behaviour are inherent in the colours and slogans on the clothes. I have two girls and a boy. To a certain extent they conform to these expectations but not entirely. I don't want to reinforce what comes naturally with clothing and toys that suggest there are no other possibilities.

squeaver · 03/02/2010 12:28

Tatt - don't read the Daily Mail if you don't want to see women-hating opinions!

Another question from me (sorry MNHQ) - what do you think of the "pinkification" of all toys and clothes for girls?

honeydew · 03/02/2010 13:04

Hi Natasha,

How much do you think the internet is to blame for the reinforcement of sexist values and hyper-sexualisation of women?

In my opinion, the internet has been an enormous catalyst in the recent resurgence of sexism over the last 20 years.

Porn on the net is absolutely everywhere - even the 'Google' protection filter system for my children allows provocative photos of breasts.

When I grew up in the late 70s and 80s, yes there was porn; magazines and videos etc but the internet now allows men easy access to demeaning violent pornography, such as anal rape, fetish, gang bangs, etc.

Also the rise of dating , escort and social networking sites encourge men to have at the click of a button access anything they want. One night stands,prostitution and illicit dates, which undermine the value of marriage and fidelity are on offer within seconds.

Obviously, if people want to have an affair they will whatever the circumstances but the prevalence of 'easy' women online can hardly be helping British men to see women as equals.

What can the Government do to regulate the interet so that we retain freedoms but protect young, vulnerable women from selling themselves online? How can we deter men from thinking of woman as disposable sexy playthings?

Do you think the internet should be regulated more, or is that just PC censorship? What is the right balance?

honeydew · 03/02/2010 13:09

That Daily Mail? Oh my God! It belittles, attacks, objectifies and degrades women.

Mumsnet should collectively attack the DM for its sexist articles that only encourage male censure.

TheShriekingHarpy · 03/02/2010 14:09

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TheShriekingHarpy · 03/02/2010 14:18

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mrsruffallo · 03/02/2010 14:19

Agree Harpy.
I think the overly sexual images/clothes/ video games etc have a detrimental effect on all of us, male and female.
It's not just about women craving respect from men, it's about society as whole moving forward in a way that respects individuals.

mrsruffallo · 03/02/2010 14:34

It's all very well conversing with industry and the media, but how do we tackle things like the 'alarming rise' in gang rape by under 19's and even under 16's?
Report here (warning:distressing content)
Is this a symptom of our overtly sexualised culture and if so how do we reach this age group and spread the equality message?

mrsruffallo · 03/02/2010 14:36

Sorry, one more if I may
We have many lively discussions on here regarding the burkha and whether the wearing of it has a place in a liberated society
What is your take on it?

BitOfFun · 03/02/2010 15:00

I think we should be doing more to dispel the myth of the Happy Hooker, actually, TheShriekingHarpy. It strikes me as being akin to the Uncle Tom characters of the slave era.

Natasha- do you think the internet could be harnessed for feminists to fight back on a mass scale? Have you got any ideas about how to get young women and older ones connected over these issues?

TheShriekingHarpy · 03/02/2010 15:15

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TheShriekingHarpy · 03/02/2010 15:17

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Molesworth · 03/02/2010 16:45

I'd be interested to know what Natasha thinks about the issue of rape and how attitudes towards rape are connected with hypersexualised culture.

For example, what on earth are we to make of the recent case in which five men who were charged with gang-raping a woman had all charges against them dropped when it emerged that the woman had previously discussed fantasies about group sex with one of the defendants over the internet?

Leenie · 03/02/2010 17:06

Hi Natasha,
can you tell me your views on thw whole internet dating/ socializing thing, and how much of a part do you think it has played in this new casual attitude our teens have towards sex

southeastastra · 03/02/2010 17:11

in the 80s we seemed, more or less, to be on track with feminist issues and equality.

why do you think it went so wrong in the 90s? what cause could there have been for such a major shift back to old attitudes?

tatt · 03/02/2010 17:35

there are poorly paid occupations for women too - cleaners, care assistant for example - and still more low paid women than men. A few men choose to work in the sex industry. But men don't generally opt to be strippers or rent boys, they have more choices.

I do see the internet as a cause of much that is bad, can't see any way of changing it without women acquiring more power.

dittany · 03/02/2010 18:32

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honeydew · 03/02/2010 19:13

Do you think that the rise of cosmetic surgery such as breast implants has affected how young women/teens see themselves sexually?

If you look at women like Katie Price, it is clear she has become highly successful, for having large breasts and showing them off.

Either that or it's singers and actresses that get fame and fortune. TV shows like X Factor and Britain's Got Talent
encourage a craving for celebrity status. The message to teenage girls is clear- society values not brains, but beauty, sexiness, a good voice or an ability to entertain.

I think this obsession with celebrity in the 90s has really encouraged young girls to lower their expectations of what they can achieve for themselves as individuals.

And lets face it, if you can be a rich WAG, actress, model or singer- say like Cheryl Cole, why on earth become a doctor or a teacher? If you are pretty, just try and marry a rich banker instead; it's easier than spending 20 years paying off student debt and never saving enough to get on the property ladder!

The message given out by society is that if you want that level of success, use your body and your face- forget getting an education, no regular job can ever match that earning power and status.

It's easy to see how nothing will change as long as we keep on rewarding with fabulous fame and wealth women who use their bodies instead of their brains.

I think in the 80s there were some powerful women who influenced our generation- Mrs Thatcher, Anita Roddick, Germaine Greer was still a strong voice, Esther Rantsen set up childline, Princess Diana was elegant and inspiring, Madonna, Kate Bush, the author Janette Winterson to name but a few. None of these women ( except perhaps Madonna) particularly exploited their sexuality for profit but were talented, original shakers and movers.

TheShriekingHarpy · 03/02/2010 19:46

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Molesworth · 03/02/2010 19:52

Ahem theshriekingharpy - did you miss the guideline that says one question each? If you want to have a general anti-feminist rant, start a thread of your own.

TheShriekingHarpy · 03/02/2010 19:57

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TheShriekingHarpy · 03/02/2010 19:58

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