Live webchat with NCT chief executive Belinda Phipps, Thurs 17 Sept, 1-2pm

[GeraldineMumsnet]

We're very pleased to welcome Belinda Phipps for a live webchat this Thursday.

Belinda has posted on threads discussing the NCT, eg this one in April. So we're glad she's coming on for a bit longer tomorrow and can respond to your comments and queries about the NCT.

We're going to send over any questions you've posted by the end of this afternoon for some advance answers, to leave as much time as possible for questions during the live chat.

Hope you can join us.

from previous posts - combined answer - What is the NCT doing to break their middle class lentil weaver image problem?

Well talking to you here for a start ? interestingly the NCT s image depends on where you are in the UK country and how old you are ? NCT does have a bit of yoghurt knitting image ? and hairy legged image ? just checking mine in case ? but also bra burning women libber ? yummy mummy ? green fanatics - posh ? not posh - - and all of them were probably true at some time and some place.

What are we doing ? ever more out reach ? contracts for the NHS to provide services to all ? helplines ? Bumps & Babies magazine ? stepping stones ? new logo ? training peer supporters ? putting our volunteers and workers in sure starts ? baby cafes childrens centres ? publicising concessionary rates for courses etc but images die hard. However given the current economic climate and environmental issues our yoghurt knitting green image may come in handy again one day ? and it may even become fashionable. What we do tho is welcome everyone ? baking your own bread or buying mothers pride from asda ? whatever views you have ? whatever your cultural background all are welcome ? no judgment .

We are actively discussing our work now on reaching all parents. This involves auditing all our current services to see what?s going on that?s of good practice so that parts of the NCT can learn and replicate. It also involves checking pout internal systems and structures so that nobody is ever left wanting when they need a service from NCT

Where do you look for consultants to do your research? You should come to Mumsnet to advertise posts / briefs and fill your Board vacancies...

So that isn't a yes to the NCT should split, is it? Just a yes to there are tensions.

I think there are tensions but not enough to mean the NCT should split, for the reasons you outline. But I think it would be much easier if the nomenclature changed so that rather than being NCT "members", folk became NCT "supporters" or NCT "friends". They are supporting the campaigning work not buying their way into a social network. As a parallel, one isn't a "member" of Oxfam, but one supports it. Once people are members, they look for services, they expect "something to me for my money", they ask "what do I get for my membership fee?" and that's where we have some real problems between the two sides of your organisation. Ever thought of changing the wording used to describe your supporters? I think others have mentioned it eg. twelveyeargap.

volunteer vole - sorry to confuse - we stay as one - but yes there are tensions - you should be in the office sometimes - and in some vol meetings

Jobs are advertised here - maybe mumsnet would do a button of something.

www.nct.org.uk/about-us/jobs

I'll be your minion Belinda in fact I already am part of your vast army of volunteers.

charitable objects of the NCT

That Dress!

Well the NCT is known for being pretty innovative ? we invented and we re first to sell by mail order ? feeding bras ? and for years they were really hard to get hold of anywhere else ? now you get them in many more places ? but we still probably have the best range and fit the biggest range of sizes and will make specially for you if we don?t have your size.

www.nctshop.co.uk/Bras/departments/1/

Now the dress may not be to everyone?s taste and price range ? but the idea is that giving birth is a pretty special thing ? and you usually get to have a lovely dress for your wedding so why not your birth ? certainly NCT has pushed - and largely succeeded in making sure hospitals don?t make women wear the attractive backless gown that hospitals provide ( except if you are having a cesarean section ? we haven?t cracked that one yet) ? so now you can wear what you want ? and if you want lovely we can do it ? it may not catch on ? but we will see.

The antidote to the dress are those pants ? the most unattractive but the most comfortable post birth ? even post cesarean section pants on the planet

www.nctshop.co.uk/Stretch-Briefs-3-Pack/productinfo/2015/

We do other PJ's too . www.nctshop.co.uk/Nightwear/products/19/? and to take care of the majority action of ripping off all clothing altogether while labouring and giving birth we push hospitals to have a knock wait to be invited in approach to going into labour rooms ? and making sure those rooms have window blinds and curtains ? can you believe that some don?t ? I went into one where those parking their cars in the car park got a view right into an uncurtained birth room! NCT sales aims to provide a range of things that are likely to be useful and at least less planet damaging than many other places ? we provide some nice to have things too ? which are not on the must list ? but we don?t try very hard to sell things ? mainly because you don?t need much in the way of things when you are pregnant or giving birth ? we would love people to come to us and buy a limited selection of things ? because going into other high street retailers generally means being encouraged to spend spend spend ? we do Nearly New Sales too ? so you can raise cash for you (and the charity) from items you have finished using ( or more likely barely used) and buy things at much lower prices than the shops. If you go to NCT events and classes ? there is general discouragement of butying loads ? lots of tips on using the no purchase option ? co bathing ? raising babies nappy free ? and laods of swapping and lending going on ? sometimes for money raising reasons I wish we were a bit more pushy ? but go to a class you will generally find the teacher ? bfc or postnatal leader showing you how little you need ? rather than suggesting you get your cash out. The CEO of Mothercare seemed to think we were missing a great opportunity to sell ? but he was missing the point ? we are here to offer not to push stuff on people.

There is always a lot of debate about what we do sell ? and what we don?t ? we steer clear of things where there is evidence of harm ? so that?s why we are moving to along side cots ? a la Bednest ? and as the evidence develops we will likely move away from cots where young babies sleep alone in a separate room because its becoming clear that the safest place for a baby under 6 months to sleep is in the same room as their parents. If you have a view ? let us know www.nct.org.uk/contact-us If there is something that you think is a must have ? if you a e a supplier yourself ? then get in touch.

We have been doing Bisphenol free containers for years now ? and finally succeeded I getting the press to realise it was an issue ? so much so that a very annoyed Avent came to talk to me ? because they were having to look at how to get Bisphenol A out of their bottles ? they haven?t done it yet btw ? so we will be keeping the pressure up.

NB on price- because we are often first and taking a risk ? or we have products that are only made in small quantities ? so when we run out ? that?s it - we are not at the pile it high and sell it cheap end of the range ? and we want to make a small profit to plough back in the charity ? but worth watching our site-because what we have today ? others will have in the future.

And any profit the trading Company makes is covenanted to the charity,

Thank you volunteer vole - and thank you for all the other volunteering you do.

Belinda

Hello - I thought i'd check out what's happening on here

They made me wear the nasty backless gown and I didn't have a c section.

I think though, that the very nature of the NCT on the ground (ie very locally based, volunteer run) means that although at the national level you are making great efforts to encourage diversity and welcome all, this doesn't translate to the local level.

My experience was that as a new mother who planned to go back to work relatively quickly, I was distinctly unwelcome. I can't fault the antenatal classes or bf support - although my expressing at work support consisted of the BFC trying to tell me that I didn't need to go back to work - but in terms of community support, none

Eldonave you asked
Why should I continue to contribute/be a member of the NCT after my child turns 2?

Did you have your baby?s dad with you at any antenatal appointments? Did you have your own set of notes to keep and read during pregnancy? Did you get antenatal classes from the NHS? Were you able to have something to eat or drink while you were in labour? Did you have your babies dad with you when you gave birth? Were you allowed to keep your baby with you after birth or was your baby taken to a nursery ? did you hold you baby before s/he was washed ? or was your baby weighed washed and dressed then given to you to hold? Did you have your public hair shaved ? were you given an enema ? did you lie on your back with your legs in stirrups or were you able to get up and walk around ? did you have your baby at home ? did you get support to breastfeed ? is your babys weight being compared on a breastfeeding baby chart ? did you write a birth plan ? was it respected ? did you know that you could refer yourself to a midwife and did not see a GP or consultant unless you wanted to. Did you have a water birth or an en-suite toilet and shower. Did you have a birth couch rather than a medical bed in your room ? have you had maternity leave ? did you have somewhere that you could go to meet other mums after birth ? were you able to find information on the transition to parenthood ? did you know that your baby does not need solid food until s/he is about 6 months old ? did you get healthy start money ? or a maternity grant ? if you were in prison for your birth were you shackled to a male prison officer during your birth ? if you had a prem baby were you supported and informed?

I could go on ? but if you benefited form any of these things then the NCT made a difference for you ? that means someone some where ? who you don?t know and never will know supported this charity ? paid a membership fee and possibly volunteered and fundraised in order that we could bring about these changes ? someone paid my salary and those of the policy team at the NCT UKO office ?someone paid the expenses of volunteers for us to sit in endless meetings and push and run conferences and talk to the media and ministers and run surveys and write reports ? until finally the NCT was asked to draft the England maternity policy ? and contribute to the Scottish and Welsh ones . (NI is just getting started and we are involved)

Now we are not done ? about one third of all women remember their birth as traumatic ( mainly because they were left unsupported of had a lot of interventions) ? suicide is the biggest cause of death in women in the year post birth ? in the year post birth a high number of relationships break up ? postnatal depression is common ? many women who wanted to breast feed find they do not get the support they need to do it ? babies lose their lives in neonatal intensive units from lack of donor milk from human milk banks ( formula feeding prem babies increases the risk of necrotising eneterocolitis ? donor milk or own mothers milk is the best prevention). Something like 10 or 15% of all cesarean sections could have been prevented by better care in labour ? more than a quarter of all women are left alone during labour or birth or just afterwards and were frightened.

So if you keep paying your membership fee ? you will get nothing (except the support of the friends you have made and the positive spin off from the benefits you have already had) ? but what we will do is take your money and put it to work to make a difference for the next generation of mothers and fathers - one day that money will have gone round in a circle and will make a difference for your own child when he or she becomes a parent.

I can?t offer you anything to stay a member ? but for the sake of parents of the future I hope you do.

Belinda .

I am trying not to barge in and ask stuff but I am really interested in your role. So I have two more questions.

What sort of things do you get statutory funding for at the moment? I'm curious as to what attracts statutory funding in the parenting sector... And who is your main statutory funder?

I note that you've finally got a decent URL instead of nctbabyandchildcareleftleginleftlegoutshakeitallabout.com. Did you have to put up a fight to get the proper nct.org.uk address?! Did you have to buy it in the end?

CMOTdibbler

I am really sorry you didn't get what you need - the plus of the NCT is a lot of local autonomy - but that also means it varies a lot from place to place - If you tell me ( offline) where - we will see what we can do to encourage more supportive behaviour.

Belinda

Hi Belinda, there is a lot of negative stuff here, where can parents report back to about their good and bad experiences of the NCT?
As for the perception of memebership, I don't fit the percieved NCT mold at all. I'm from a working class back AND breastfed my daughter. That was 7 years ago. I had an appalling birth and lived in a new area so didnt know anyone. I have peer supported at a childrens centre for 4 years and am now training as a NCT bfc with a University.
I know what a diff the NCT makes and after observing Antenatal classes wish I had done them as wouldnt have had such a god awful birth.Perhaps parents could join the NCT if they feel they are diff from the 'norm' and help the NCT diversify even more than they already are, surely thats more pro-active than mickey taking about exsisting members.
After all aren't we all on the same side, helping families?

If "about one third of all women remember their birth as traumatic ( mainly because they were left unsupported of had a lot of interventions)" - shouldn't the emphasis in antenatal classes be more on preparing women for interventions, rather than telling them that they can avoid interventions through conscious choice alone?

GirlsArrloud

The backless gown - definately makes the bum look big - and it gets rather chilly - so even That Dress may be a better option - or get on your local MSLC and get it stopped - most undignified I agree.

Belinda

Can I shamelessly bump my own questions?

Do you feel there is a tension between promoting what the NCT/research suggests is 'best' practices (whether this is excl bf for 6 mths, or minimising intervention) and supporting all mothers (& thus minimising the moral hierachies of birth/bf) - how can those tensions ever be resolved?

I'd also be interested in knowing what on-going monitoring occurs once AN/PN teachers & BF councillors are qualified? There seem to be lots of negative experiences on these boards, & a huge variety of experiences with NCT professionals - why do you think this is?

And finally, where do you see the future of the organisation ito the balance between PN, post natal & early years?

Hello, I have a question (sorry I didn't post in advance). I have a lot to thank NCT for but locally I just see the organisation leech people dry, there is not enough volunteer support. For example getting people to deliver 70+ newsletters a quarter over a fairly large area (one lady was doing it on foot) then telling them off when they are a bit late.

I have a good mind not to renew my membership next year and send the local branch £40 of stamps instead. I have heard the reason is that there is no money to post because the HQ take 70% of all locally raised money. Is this true and why is the proportion so high?

If you have comments or want to tell us about something that needs improving - then
www.nct.org.uk/contact-us

the complaints bit goes straight to me.

If you have had a traumatic birth and want to talk about it - our preg and birth line has antenatal teachers who can support you - call us on 0300 330 0772

If you want to help us change things and you have a story to tell that you would be happy to have in the papers then e mail [email protected]

We can give your situation the oxygen of publicity.

Belinda

Belinda, it's not just about encouraging supportive behaviour in local branches. It's about increasing the understanding of what a community led volunteer run organisation is. It's about saying to folk who see a need for a particular community group or activity (eg. one for mothers who are back at work and want to meet in the evenings) great, thanks for seeing that, here's the email list, would you like to arrange a pub meet-up? I am getting increasingly impatient by folk saying to me:

you don't organise Nearly New Sales in my part of the borough
You don't organise a book group which meets in the day time- only in the evening
You don't organise an outing to the local park for those of us with kids

and when I say

Great idea! Would you like to organise it, with my help? I don't hear from them again. Volunteering just ain't fashionable, moaning about not getting a service is.

(That wasn't aimed at CMOTdibbler BTW, it's just a sore point for me)

Your post of 13:29 is very rousing BTW, it would be great to translate some of this passion into your organisation's literature, and get the message across to volunteers?

Lots of people asked this or similar so heres an all in one answer

What does the NCT actively do to extend its antenatal teaching beyond the relatively well-informed and relatively privileged group of current users?

For the first time some organised advertising for our services ? concessionary prices ? ability to pay in installments ? seeking and winning NHS and childrens centre contracts ? so they pay and parents get free services- running projects with particular needs groups- main streaming the work we do with teenagers we support and do drop ins with 1200 -1500 teens each year and have done a CD of resources for the health service on how to do this effectively and we ruin training sessions for them ? during training all our workers learn how to work with diverse groups ad are expected to do so ? because we are so often accused of serving only yummy mummies we are going to collect the data so we can show people our diverse reach ? members tend to be better of financially than the average bear ? because we want their cash to run the charity so they have to be able to afford to give it ( though you can join for £2 if you are at income support levels of income) ? but if you look at who actually uses our services ? especially drop ins, phone lines and nearly new sales it?s a good range.

We aim to reach all parents and no parent will be turned down for lack of money.

Most of what the NCT offers is free ? but an element of our service has a charge ? that is our postnatal and antenatal classes and our breastfeeding classes ? we make no profit from this ? it covers its costs ? usually ? but not always. These covers about 50,000 couples ? but over and above that about 300,000 come to low or no cost branch events ? call the lines ? 10,000 ? use the web ? a million a year ? and get Bumps and Babies mags (free) 500,000 pregnant women.

NCT does offer classes and support to less well-off and more vulnerable parents. We are working to promote this more widely.

For those who cannot afford to pay full fees for NCT classes, we offer a class price which is 10% of the full prices. This is open to under 18s, students, parents receiving income support and parents with a household income of under £15,000. For parents with household income between £15,000 and £25,000 there are reductions of up to 90% discount.

Around the UK, NCT runs a number of support projects. These include:

? Breastfeeding peer support drop-ins, including some specifically targeted at teenagers.
? Antenatal classes targeted at specific groups, teenagers, parents who don?t speak English, recovering drug addicts etc
? Antenatal classes in prisons
? Parent Education Access Courses (PEAP) ? these are designed for parents who have been out of education for a long time and have difficulty accessing or paying for childcare. Parents can attend the course with their children in tow. After this course, many parents have the confidence to continue in education, to improve their opportunities in life.

Our branches also run specific projects. NCT Staffordshire runs a project called Little Ducks, where parents donate unwanted baby goods which are then given directly to vulnerable parents in the area, such as newly arrived asylum seekers, victims of domestic violence etc.

Goodness me, THIS is how to do a live chat!

Hello, Belinda. I have a great deal of time for the NCT and the work they do - and also appreciate how difficult it can be to "vet" volunteers.

How do you make sure that you don't have lunatics working for you? I know you interview prospective bf counsellors, etc, but is it possibly one of the reasons the NCT has differing reputations in different parts of the country?

Also, will you be doing any work to break down the next Infant Feeding Survey into "bite-sized chunks" for easier consumption (like the stats page I asked about earlier)?

Belinda

Just to reiterate what I asked in my earlier questions. Why have the local and national magazines (at least during the 7 years when I was a member) been allowed to be hijacked by the "all interventions are evil and you can avoid them if you just try hard enough" brigade? Why are NCT antenatal teachers (mine, anyway) still peddling the same line?

As morningpaper says, women need to be prepared for the possibility that they may require intervention. By all means campaign against unnecessary interventions, but in a way that recognises that for some women they are necessary.