By littlelapin on Fri 28-Sep-07 10:56:03
Can we have Claire Verity at the same time?
From Claire: Not up to me! Sorry
By morningpaper on Fri 28-Sep-07 11:57:16
I think she is very very lovely.
From Claire: Thank you.
morningpaper: But I would like to ask whether, having seen the programme as it has been finally edited, she regrets participating in the programme when it presents an extreme "regime" such as Claire Verity's as a valid and normal parenting approach?
Claire: I was under the impression when I started working for Silver River that Claire Verity's method was akin to Gina Ford. In actuality they are vastly different. I don't regret it, but due to the huge backlash with Claire Verity and some of the editing, I have found it very hard. The plus side is I have had loads of supportive emails and the continuum concept is now in the public domain.
By belgo on Fri 28-Sep-07 12:00:32
I would just like her to explain what the Continuum Concept is, is it similar to attachment parenting?
From Claire: They have similar aspects (such as co sleeping, baby wearing and breastfeeding) but attachment parents focus very much on the baby. The continuum concept is not child centered and assumes that as long as you are present for your baby (that they are being carried by someone and that they have access to the breast) that they are having their needs met . The adult is then free to attend to their tasks. He premise is that the baby / child likes to know that their mum / carer is confident, calm and busying herself with adult activities. Also the continuum concept respects a child's innate self preservation instinct.
By codswallop on Fri 28-Sep-07 16:31:02
who IS she>
From Claire: My name is Claire Scott, I was employed by Silver River last year to promote and mentor The Continuum Concept, an anthropological study by Jean Liedloff. I am 33 years old and I have 2 little girls, aged 9 and 7. They were (for the most part) raised in a continuum manner.
By hunkermunker on Fri 28-Sep-07 16:33:43
Watch Bringing Up Baby on Tuesday night on C4, Cod - you'll see. She'll Irritate you, I'm sure.
From Claire: I'm sorry if that is the case!!
By lionheart on Fri 28-Sep-07 16:39:25
I'd like to know whether, regardless of where she stands on the question of corporal punishment, she felt like smacking that other wretched woman.
From Claire: There were times the day we debated on the sofas, when I felt emotions, anger and frustrations I had never felt before.
By geekymummy on Sat 29-Sep-07 15:07:48
I'd like to ask her how she feels about the view that attachment parenting is the preserve of SAHMs?
From Claire: It tends to be by default, as these women feel strongly that they need to be available for their children and babies and have adjusted their career and life accordingly. I also feel that there is a growing WAHM movement which I encourage. I would also like to encourage babies being welcome in some work places. For example, our book keeper comes in every week with her young baby.
By puffylovett on Sat 29-Sep-07 21:19:22
Is Claire Verity REALLY as bad as was portrayed in the 1st episode, or was it just put on for the cameras & to increase ratings ?
from Claire: I don't know Claire very well. We have met on maybe 3 occasions. Off camera she is different to how she appears on, and I suspect that there is a lot of editing for spin.
Apart from the day spent debating on the sofas; then she was the person you see on screen.
By mayzie on Mon 01-Oct-07 09:38:30
my 10 month old son has never been a good sleeper,only started to sleep through at 8months,however has now started waking again at about 3.30/4am screeming.It takes about 45mins for him to go back to sleep,what should i do?
please help,very tired mum
From Claire: I am sorry that you son is waking screaming and that you are all suffering from lack of sleep. Do you have any idea what he is screaming about? Is he crying or screaming from fear? Do you take him into bed with you to soothe him?
By ChubbyScotsBurd on Mon 01-Oct-07 10:20:11
I would ask her how she feels about the way her views have been presented on 'Bringing Up Baby' - I think she's been painted as an extremist as much as Claire Verity really, just in the opposite direction.
I felt a bit self conscious wandering down the road with my baby in a sling after the programme was aired - maybe all the neighbours were saying "Oh look, there's that mad 'tribal' woman with her baby strapped on board".
From Claire: You are right, the continuum concept and myself have been portrayed as Truby King and Claire Verity's antithesis and many people will see TCC as an extreme. However my aim was to help women (especially those who are feeling lonely, isolated and exhausted) by giving them information on a way of parenting that has worked for me and many, many families I know. It's not always easy, there are obstacles in our modern world, but it is worth the effort for many people.
By hunkermunker on Mon 01-Oct-07 16:29:48
Did she ask Claire Verity how on earth she had allowed those heavily airbrushed publicity shots of herself to go out when she couldn't possibly live up to them?
From Claire: No I didn't. Do you think I should?
By Ponka on Mon 01-Oct-07 20:21:19
Claire, I had not come across you or the "continuum concept" until watching the programme last Tuesday, despite having two children of my own. Although I decided that this method would not have suited our family completely, I thought it's basis made a lot of sense and would have probably taken on board some of the principles if we were having another. I'd be very interested in your comments on the following two questions though:
- How do you reconcile the fact that sharing a bed with baby is not completely in line with current cot death guidelines? What do you advise when you work with mums who smoke, for example?
From Claire: I have read a lot of research around this issue, and several articles suggest that when a mother and baby share sleep, the mother protects the baby from SIDS. I believe that many cot deaths are as a result of a baby's inability to rouse itself in the case of sleep apnea. There is evidence to suggest that the C02 that the mother breaths on her baby's face, stimulates the baby to breath. There is also evidence that mothers and babies sync in their sleep and develop matching patterns of deep sleep, dreaming and waking. The mother's temperature is also then able to regulate the baby's temperature, by lowering when the baby's temp raises, and then raising when the baby gets colder. It's a very symbiotic relationship.
There is also the benefit that the baby is able to breastfeed throughout the night. Fostering an excellent and largely successful breastfeeding relationship. The breasts can then regulate and produce the correct amount of milk for the baby's needs, premature return of the mother's menses is prevented and of course the whole family gets a lot more sleep!
So those were the benefits for me, but I am aware of your point that they are not in line with current SIDS guidelines. My opinion on this is that there are many studies still needed to prove that co sleeping in a safe manner is safer than having a baby in a cot.
As far as I am aware, research currently show that 50% of SIDS were from co sleeping families. 90% of these were where parents who had taken drugs, were drunk, smoked, slept on the sofa etc etc. Basically they didn't follow the guidelines. What they don't differentiate with the remaining 10% was whether they were breastfed or not. My guess is not, which is why further research is urgently called for.
The overwhelming fact that as a species we have shared sleep for hundreds of thousand, if not millions of years was proof enough for me. Indeed we are one of the only cultures in our current world not sharing sleep. SIDS is almost non existent in China.
In answer to advising what parents should do when they smoke would really be not to smoke.
Ponka: 2) You've probably been asked this a lot. I heaped love on my first child and carried him around a lot. I gave him constant attention. My second has had to get on with it himself a lot more. My first child seems to have been a lot less happy than my second and a lot more needy. Now, I know you can't generalise from examples but this certainly is in line with those who say that if you give a child constant attention, you spoil it and make a "rod for your own back" (words I've come across a few times on Mumsnet). Now, I'm not supporting Claire Verity in any shape or form by saying this. I want to make that clear. I think her methods are truly awful but, as they say, "everything in moderation". Do you not think that there's chance that a baby who is held at every minute could be a lot more needy in later life?
Claire: I believe that if you fulfil a child's need completely and without judgement they move happily and independently to their next developmental stage. If we give ourselves completely to our babies, by holding them and meeting their needs without making them the center of attention, then at the 6 month mark, they will take their first 'steps' (or crawls LOL) into the world, confident and reassured that their mother is a steadfast. This will in turn avoid the clingy child clutching a blanket and her mother's skirt. Pushing independence too soon can result in insecurity.
Ponka: Thanks very much.
By 3missys on Tue 02-Oct-07 11:29:53
@ littlelapin..... yes now that would be interesting... I wonder how she would defend her ways of bringing up a baby against most of us lot!
I think CS way of bringing up a baby is very natural although I am not sure how practical it is in this day and age..... I like the idea of carrying your baby for long periods but not sure if this should be done all the time as the baby needs to gain some independance and be able to explore his body and surroundings with the freedom of not being cradled in a sling for most of the day. Would like to hear her responses to ponkas points also.
Sarah x
By hunkermunker on Tue 02-Oct-07 22:35:57
- Were you badly edited in the programme? By that, I mean that a lot of what Claire Verity said to you went seemingly unchallenged. For instance, when she called you a "raving lunatic...no offence" you just looked a bit like a stunned fish.
From Claire: The stunned fish look was edited in. However I was genuinely very shocked and taken aback that day as I had no idea how strong Claire Verity's opinions were. I don't actually take offence to Claire Verity calling me a raving lunatic, because she is just getting personal when she has nothing more to say.
hunkermunker: 2. Did you try to get more help for the mum you were mentoring who was struggling with breastfeeding? Did she see a breastfeeding counsellor at all?
Claire: I didn't just try, I did get Grace a lot of help right from the minute I realised she was having a problem. I turned up the first time when she had been discharged from hospital and she was telling me that her son had jaundice. That he was sleeping very heavily and that he blood sugar was low (hence the reason the hospital gave him a botttle) We tried to wake him several times, and he was extremely lethargic. I also noted that he wasn't latching correctly and had nipple confusion from the bottles. We called 2 LLL leaders. One of whom came over on several occasions and helped Grace brilliantly. All this was filmed extensively including phone conversations and ALL of it was edited out.
hunkermunker: 3. Do you regret taking part in the programme? Do you feel that by taking part, not only did you help the families you were mentoring, but you also were kind of condoning the abuse of the babies left to scream and forced into loveless routines?
Claire: Please see my response to morningpaper. I have never condoned Claire Verity's method and never will. I had no idea until our debate what her method was, and this was filmed at the end of our filming with the families.
By moljam on Tue 02-Oct-07 22:42:33
i want to say i think you are fab and also we were cosleeping untill ds-now 22 months got fed up and seemed to want his own space(he outgrew it before we did!) and babywearing until very recently-he got too heavy for me,we had pouch then ergo,how can i continue this closeness with a toddler?
how do you feel your parenting style has affected your children?
From Claire: Thank you for your support. My children are older now, so no longer, co-sleep, breastfeed or are worn in a sling. However we are very close and they occasional pop into my bed on Sunday mornings. Plus we spend an awful lot of time doing things together. Cooking and cleaning (not their rooms, they hate that!) and gardening we do for hours on end. Include your toddler in all that you do, and you'll have a close, loving relationship.
I can't assess how my choices of parenting style have affected my children because I have nothing to compare it to.
By edam on Tue 02-Oct-07 22:53:28
LOL at 'stunned fish'.
From Claire:
By AitchTwoOh on Tue 02-Oct-07 22:55:13
to echo something MorningPaper said on another thread... when the hell did BFing become a TRIBAL method of feeding a baby?
and i'm afraid i'd also like to ask Claire what her actual training is as a BFC because she doesn't appear to have many facts at her disposal which should have silenced Dreena and CV.
From Claire: I am not trained as a BFC. I started my training many years ago, but never finished, which Silver River knew. But somehow along the road, channel 4 twisted this into me being a BFC.
However I do believe that I am armed with a hoard of breastfeeding facts, which I did share, which were then edited from the show.
By Easywriter on Tue 02-Oct-07 22:58:54
Ha! If only I'd noticed this before starting another thread...
From Claire: What is the brand of sling that is being used by the couple she is mentoring? It looks absolutely fabulous! (The one with the large ring at one shoulder)
There are 2. www.closebabycarrier.com and the www.mayawrap.com
By AitchTwoOh on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:02:07
but other than that she's been pretty good, i should say. certainly better than the other two.
From Claire: Thanks
By Mij on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:06:45
Hi Claire
We're a babywearing, co-sleeping family, which was a godsend as dd arrived as a very high need baby and if I hadn't been lent a wrap and had the confidence to take her into bed with us I think we'd have had a very miserable first few months.
As I'm known about the place as 'the sling woman', I have a lot of conversations about carrying - people stop me in the street, nobble me at baby groups etc. I've come across quite a few mums who say 'oh, that wouldn't suit my baby at all, s/he doesn't like to be held too much, he's much happier in his bouncy chair/pram/whatever.' What do you advocate in those circumstances?
From Claire: I guess to hold you head up high and smile and know in your heart that you are doing what is right for you and your baby.
By Mij on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:07:59
easywriter - do you mean the cream one that crosses? I think it's a tricotti.
From Claire: No, it's a www.closebabycarrier.com
By hunkermunker on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:11:17
I agree, Aitch - CS, your heart seems utterly in the right place, but some facts to silence the others would've been good too. Also, I was unimpressed with the way you "supported" the new mum to breastfeed in the first programme. What are your qualifications to do so? Are you a breastfeeding counsellor?
From Claire: I am sorry that you were unimpressed. I did my best at the time. Please also see the answer to AitchTwoOh.
By hunkermunker on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:11:40
I think that CS actually designed the sling that's used in the prog. Natural Child sell it.
From Claire: Yes, they do. And Blooming Marvellous.
By Piffle on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:13:07
I had a very high need baby also 13 years ago and was alone, I followed instinct and breastfed when he wanted, co slept and carried him all day long... this was not by choie per se but it worked for him, nothing else did
My two later children were different - neither enjoyed co sleeping, however I now buy a sling for every new mum I know. Godsend, my son now is 6 mths and the sigth of his sling when in a car seat calms him down if he is upset.
My question is this... (I am a stay at home mother by the way)
How can a mother return to work at 6 mths post natal having followed continuum concept care for the first 6 mths - is it incompatible with modern demands? Might this be why mothers are turning to regimes which promise sleep, guaranteed slots for things to make care easier for themselves and others? Childcare surely does not cater for this kind of parenting?
From Claire: This is a really difficult one, as I believe you are right ~ this is why people turn to routine. It's such a cliché, but the first 2 years of a baby's life goes so quickly. As indeed do all years! I changed my career which enabled me to work from home until they started at school. I know this opportunity isn't available to everyone, but I would gently suggest that there are always subtle if not major changes that can be made that would avoid a mother returning to full time work at 6 months.
By LittleBella on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:16:13
Hi Claire
What strategies did you use to control the impulse you would quite reasonably have had, to slap Claire Verity?
OK ignore that question if you prefer.
From Claire: I did get very angry and frustrated.
By hunkermunker on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:17:35
Piff, I know, I got the email too today S'what made me think of them as selling the CS sling!
Claire, I think your sling looks excellent, btw.
From Claire: I love it, I am glad you like the look of it.
By verylittlecarrot on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:34:33
I'd like to ask Claire: "What practical strategies can you offer to the baby-carrying Mum when she needs to put her baby down occasionally (toilet & shower etc!), but that baby is 'unputdownable' and gets very upset at the separation? Assuming that there isn't always another pair of hands from the 'tribe members' to take over?" I have found myself following something akin to attachment parenting / the continuum concept, but out of necessity, given that my baby hates to be put in a bouncy chair, crib, cot, pram, or in fact anything except arms. I do struggle to go to the loo sometimes and have been known to have to wee with baby still in sling!!!!
From Claire: I did plenty of wees and poohs with baby in arms! Listening to your baby and their needs is ultimately more important than whether they are held continuously. Putting your baby down while you wee or shower is no problem as long as they are happy. If not, bring them in the shower or bath with you. It's about responding to them without anger / displeasure / judgement.
By NadineBaggott on Tue 02-Oct-07 23:45:29
I just wonder what you think about modern women seemingly needing endless advice from 'experts'. Baby gurus/books, I dunno, seems like a nice little earner. Why women don't trust their midwife/mothers/aunts/grandmas, hell, their own instincts is beyond me!
Why would they choose one guru over another? I guess that's because they've already decided what sort of parent they'd like to be and are just really looking for affirmation.
Yours truly
Wejustgotonwithitinmyday
From Claire: We live very isolated lives, with little contact with our families. We are generally career women and when we have a baby later on in life, we are shocked with little to no support.
We panic and turn to books for advice.
By Gingerbear on Wed 03-Oct-07 00:00:54
Sling, sling, Oh a sling is a wonderful thing...
My DS is such a happy chappy in his sling, but I can't iron, or cook. Tis too dangerous.
From Claire: You could try a back carry sling?
Gingerbear: And how do you get a shower or do a poo pray tell?
From Claire: See above please
Gingerbear: And how do I cope with mums on the school run telling me I look like a Navajo squaw? (I try my hardest to edumacate them)
From Claire: I always had admiring looks. I would laugh if someone called me a Navajo Squaw. In the paper last week I was accused of inserting Frisbees in baby's lips!! LOL
By Gingerbear on Wed 03-Oct-07 00:07:16
It's a bugger trying to change your mooncup 'n'all....
From Claire: I have a moon cup too
By kiskidee on Wed 03-Oct-07 09:58:41
I am amazed at how little you had to say about the benefits of cosleeping, neurological development and the importance of carrying etc and bfing and bfing past the first few wks of life. Were you badly edited? there is a mountain of evidence based research which support all 3 of these position of the continuum concept. I was really sad to see how ineffective you were in defending these points when both other women derided them.
from Claire: Please see a few of my earlier comments. I did on many, many occasions state the benefits of all the above. However it is beyond my control how this is edited. I am sorry to hear that you thought I was ineffective.
By movingmumma on Wed 03-Oct-07 12:57:45
Question for Claire Scott.
I've got friends who co sleep and their little ones are now 10 months old... what do you suggest people do at say 9.00 pm when baby is tired and needs to be put to bed but mum and dad aren't yet ready to sleep. Where does baby sleep? In the bed on their own? This is what a friend does but it seems a bit dangerous.
From Claire: I was happy laying my baby down on the bed, with bed guards in place when they were a little older. I can't see a difference between bed guards on a bed and being in a cot. The recommendation is for bed guards or a moses basket if you are not with the baby. And never to leave them alone on the bed under 12 months.
movingmumma: Co-sleeping is something we dabbled with but found had its own unique set of problems. Also if baby gets used to naps in the sling and then of course with time gets much heavier - carrying a child for naps isn't so easy.
Would be very interested to know what she suggests...
From Claire: There is no reason to make your life more difficult. Older babies can quite happily nap somewhere other than your arms. The in-arms phase is recommended for the 1st 6 months. The continuum concept is really about listening to your baby, being available and responding in a non judgemental way
By mum2ru on Wed 03-Oct-07 14:16:29
Several related comments/questions ....
If you carry your baby constantly in a sling for the 1st 6 months what about "tummy time" where the baby learns to roll over and practise crawling?
From Claire: I don't believe that babies need tummy time to learn how to crawl, as when they are carried they develop a lot of strength. My babies instinctively asked to be put down at the 5 / 6 months stage, pulled themselves up on furniture and cruised around the room this way. They automatically learnt how to crawl at this age, without tummy time.
mum2ru: I held and cuddled my little boy a lot but he loved to kick the toys attached to his crib, his play arch, his bouncy chair and swing. He got a lot of stimulation out of our daily walks in the pram (rear-facing so I could chat to him which I think partly explains why people are constantly commenting that he's such an advanced speaker at 18 months). He laughed all the time and rarely cried so was clearly happy and securely attached. My point is I feel my son would have missed out on a lot of stimulation if he'd been carried in a sling constantly.
Claire: My job is not to judge you on your parenting method, rather help parents who are struggling. It's wonderful that you have a happy and secure son, you are obviously a caring and attentive mum.
Do bear in mind my point that while awake in the sling, babies are constantly stimulated and held up where they join in with the mother's activities.
mum2ru: Plus, now that I'm pregnant again i think it would be a lot harder on my son to accept the new baby if he or she was always attached to me. Talk about rubbing his little toddler nose in it!
Claire: The sling is used as a tool in continuum parenting. It leaves your hands free, enabling you to care for your baby, without giving them your direct attention, and freeing you to involve your toddler in your activities.