Webchat with Vicky Ford MP, Minister for Children, Friday 15 May at 2.15pm

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We're pleased to announce a webchat about COVID-19 and schools with Vicky Ford, Conservative MP for Chelmsford and Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Children and Families, at 2.15pm on Friday May 15.

As lots of you will already know, the government has recently announced plans to start sending Reception, Year 1 and Year 6 children, as well as nursery children, back to school and nursery settings from June 1. We know lots of you have questions about this, and about policy and plans for schools and schoolchildren in the COVID era more broadly. Vicky will be coming along to give us the government’s response to your concerns and questions.

Vicky was elected MP for Chelmsford in 2017, and has been Minister for Children since February 2020. Before joining Parliament she was an MEP for the East of England constituency in the European Parliament. In a previous life she worked in finance.

Please join us here on Friday at 2.15pm. If you can’t join us on the day, please post up your question in advance.

As always, please remember our guidelines - one question per user, follow-ups only if there’s time and most questions have been answered, and please keep it civil. Also if one topic is dominating a thread, mods might request that people don't continue to post what's effectively the same question or point. (We may suspend the accounts of anyone who continues after we've posted to ask people to stop, so please take note.) Rest assured we will ALWAYS let the guest know that it's an area of concern to multiple users and will encourage them to engage with those questions.

Many thanks,
MNHQ

Several of my colleagues in the PVI sector have asked questions about the chronic underfunding in early settings - why are you not able to give us any answers?
You continue to offer more financial support to everyone else but we continue to be ignored - many of us will not survive this.

@icechips

It was reported yesterday that the Department for Education's own scientific adviser didn't sign off on the plans for sending children back in June. Can you explain why he wasn't asked?

As I said before, like all of government the department for Education is following science advice. The opening date of 1 June will depend on science advice at that time. This is lead by SAGE, which is chaired by the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Advisor and when matters related to schools and education are discussed Mr Rahman attends.
Mr Rahman wrote a letter to the Science and Technology Committee, after his hearing, confirming that he and his team have been closely involved in the Government’s position on reopening educational institutions and that he was involved in the development of all the guidance. He also clarified that he has full confidence in all of the reasons set out by the Government, subject to meeting the 5 tests, including a decreasing transmission rate.

Thank you for your answer. Do you then accept that there will be significant numbers of children in years 2-5 who will be unable to attend school under the current guidance? And that under these circumstances, with teachers working full time in school to cover all the “bubbles”, parents and carers of these years will effectively be required to fend for themselves?

To just repeat how beneficial school is for children is not too helpful, as everyone already knows that. The questions that need addressing are as to how, and why the information is so contradictory.

It seems increasingly evident that the urgency of getting childcare in place for the workforce is such that where the reality clashes with safety, with advice on PPE, with advice on social distancing, with safety of staff, with total lack of any strong evidence, the answer is just to brush it aside and force onwards. This is going to be a very large scale experiment, the consequences of which are not known.

@BumpkinSpiceBatty

Hi, childminder here. I would love to know how on earth you think it is safe for us to have potentially 10 + children coming into our homes. No separate playroom for many - our very own living rooms, kitchens and bathrooms. Our soft furnishings that provide comfort for our own families including very young children can't be removed, I also can't do clean them every day, it's just not possible. A large proportion of us have our own children at home or on limited timetable at school and many have a partner working from home, who is also following government advice. Have you really thought this through?

I realise every early years setting is different, but there are a number of actions all settings, including childminders, can do to reduce the risk of transmission of the virus. The most important thing is ensuring that children or adults who have symptoms of coronavirus are not attending settings. It is also very important to keep children in small groups or "bubbles" as this will lower the risk of transmission. Childminders tend to have small numbers of children in their care. Ensuring frequent hand cleaning for everyone in your household is also really important, and making sure everyone knows the importance of good respiratory hygiene practices – ‘catch it, kill it, bin it’. Finally, regular cleaning of frequently touched surfaces, such as door handles, tables and toys will help to reduce the risk of transmission.

Hi, in recent years there has been a push, not only on a child’s personal, social and emotional development but on also their mental health and wellbeing as a firm foundation for learning (not to mention the benefit of hands on learning/exploration especially for those kinaesthetic learners). As a key worker, it’s likely my furlough will end on the 1st June (or when schools open) therefore both my children will return to childcare and school (as I’ve no other option). My daughter (not one of the years specified) will be grouped in mixed aged groups of 15, likely none of her friends, it won’t be her class teacher or in her usually classroom. The letter from school states that tables will be set out individually with pen ours and everything she needs for the day facing the board. She will even eat lunch at her desk. They have hand washing breaks and small play areas just for that group. It’s like a child’s prison...they have done nothing wrong and yet mental health, personal, social and emotional welfare is not recognised throughout and my fear is it will go more harm than good. It doesn’t sound like they will be physically active either which again belittles another of your educational focuses and is a worry (especially when we’ve walked, played in the garden and practised bike riding skills over lockdown). She will not be doing school work with me at home and won’t really have the support she requires in these mixed age groups so I can’t help but think that it will be doing more harm than good. Is it worth the risk if not only mine but my children’s health being put at risk? It is simply childcare (as nobody regardless of year group) will be learning and will infect put them at more risk not only from the virus but mentally, personally, socially and emotionally!!!

I am a childminder and will be having children back on the 1st July. I just wondered if grandparents who provide the same care for some children will be allowed to do this too as some parents don’t use paid for childcare.

I'd add re Mr Rahman confirming he has been involved following statements that he hadn't been; the government have stated the unions have been closely liaised with in making these decisions, where the unions themselves are reporting that this is not the case, and that their communications with the DfE are not being responded to. This is inevitably causing some fall out in public trust, particularly to a workforce being asked to face a risk they are concerned that the government are not being truthful or open about in order to achieve their agenda.

The safety of children and people working in childcare settings is our top priority.

How can this possibly be the case when you say yourself that there is moderately high scientific confidence that younger children are less likely to become unwell if infected with coronavirus . Children can become infected, we're not totally sure they won't become very ill, and even if they don't become terribly unwell themselves, many children particularly in early years settings will have infant siblings, or possibly pregnant mothers at home. Sending them to nursery increases the risk of them contracting the virus and then bringing it home to these vulnerable people. On top of this, if my son is in nursery he becomes an even bigger risk to my elderly parents wellbeing, meaning that as a family I face the choice of either him going to nursery, or us being able to hopefully see my parents at some point this year. If nurseries are open, employers will reasonably expect parents to have childcare in place and to be able to attend work. This leaves parents in an impossible position, weighing up the health of their children and wider family against the very real risk of losing their income. It's an appalling choice to have to make, especially when the government has not released the science and evidence it claims to be relying upon, to allow people to make educated decisions.

That’s all good and well but we are told children and often adults can not have symptoms but still have the virus

@Covid19Liv

My younger daughter is in Year 5 and looking at the government's plans it is likely she will be asked to return to school mid-June. She suffers from mild asthma as does her older sister (Year 9) and I also have asthma symptoms after exercise or a cold (I am 45). Can you advise if I should send her to school with the increased risk because of our health problems or are these not severe enough to stop her return to school?

Hi Liv, I know that parents of children with asthma have extra concerns. For children who have been classed as ‘clinically extremely vulnerable’ because of a pre-existing medical condition, the position is clear: they shouldn’t be coming back to school yet. Those children who have other, less serious, conditions may be able to return to school unless their doctor advises against it - so can I suggest you discuss this with your GP. If a child is clinically vulnerable and only under their GP’s care then usually they’ll overwhelmingly benefit from a return to school. If a child is clinically vulnerable and under specialist services (a paediatrician), we recommend parents have a conversation with them. Ultimately this is a choice for parents. No one will be punished for not sending their children to school, and each child’s health issues will be different but – if our tests are met by 1 June – most children in the returning year groups will be able to come back to school.

My 11 year old is very worried about going back to school, in case he picks up covid and gives it to me (I have lung damage). His worries have some foundation and he understands the science enough to know the risks. It is lovely that he is so caring but also it is difficult as a mum to comfort and reassure him as he has quite a good point.

We are going to need plans for the medium term that take into account the individual circumstances of families, but I haven't seen much evidence of this thinking yet in government plans. Can you comment please?

Has the government taken account of the recent research and recommendations regarding children not being superspreaders of Covid19, published last week in the BMJ?

adc.bmj.com/content/early/2020/05/05/archdischild-2020-319474

I teach sen so I do support more some pupils, also those who are vulnerable, being able access schools as I fully understand the needs and difficulties there. However, with safety and ability to manage infection and so very low numbers and small groups.

At the same time, there is still a very unclear stance from the medical and scientific community on safety of the partial and full reopening of schools (as partial is still more than current levels).

The BMA do not support the guidance. I would be interested to know Vicky Ford's response to that letter:

@WhereAreWeNow

What assurances can you give parents that it's safe to reopen schools?

I'm a parent governor and the Head of our school has said there's no way he'll allow the school to reopen in June. There aren't sufficient handwashing facilities, lots of the kids have to get public transport in rush hour, lots of teachers have underlying conditions or live with people who do, lots of the kids live with grandparents.

Latest ONS research shows kids get the virus at the same rate as adults. They may not get as seriously ill in most cases but they may well be vectors.

What evidence has led you and your colleagues to believe that it is safe for children, their families, and teachers to reopen schools?

I understand, and of course making sure children, staff and parents are safe is vital.

The transmission rate of coronavirus (COVID-19) has decreased and testing capacity has increased in preparation for the rollout of contact tracing. We anticipate that by the week commencing 1st June a greater number of children can return to education and childcare settings, provided that the five key tests set by government justify the changes at the time, including that the rate of infection is decreasing and the enabling programmes set out in the Roadmap are operating effectively. As a result we are asking schools and childcare to plan on this basis.

The changes proposed from 11th May are expected to allow R to remain below 1 if adherence rates to social distancing measures do not drop. Any changes in adherence rates or behavioural changes could have a much larger impact on R. This is why it is critical that we continue to monitor and review the scientific advice on transmission rates before we ask education and childcare settings to invite a greater number of children to return on 1st June.

There is no evidence to suggest that children transmit the virus any more than adults. Some studies suggest younger children may transmit less, but this evidence is mixed. As the global understanding of the virus improves we will be able to improve our confidence in this evidence.

A key part of our approach to a phased return involves keeping children in small groups or "bubbles" and minimising contact between those groups. This will help reduce the risk of transmission.

To help prevent the spread of the coronavirus (COVID-19), a range of approaches and actions should be employed. These can be seen as a hierarchy of controls that, when implemented, creates an inherently safer system, where the risk of transmission of infection is substantially reduced. These include:
• minimising contact with individuals who are unwell by ensuring that those who have coronavirus symptoms, or who have someone in their household who does, do not attend childcare settings, schools or colleges
• cleaning hands more often than usual - wash hands thoroughly for 20 seconds with running water and soap and dry them thoroughly or use alcohol hand rub or sanitiser ensuring that all parts of the hands are covered
• ensuring good respiratory hygiene by promoting the ‘catch it, bin it, kill it’ approach
• cleaning frequently touched surfaces often using standard products, such as detergents and bleach
• minimising contact and mixing by altering, as much as possible, the environment (such as classroom layout) and timetables (such as staggered break times)

What about children with EHCPs?
I work 1:1 with a child and I need to sit right next to him all the time. How is this meant to work?

@Aesopfable

Not Covid but still important; given Oxfordshire and Shropshire Councils and the Crown Prosecution Service have all withdrawn Guidance on Transgender children in schools over the last few days due to legal challenge, and that the Crown Court agreed it was ‘arguable unlawful’ prior to Oxfordshire withdrawing their guidance. Will the government now be ensuring that all such guidance is withdrawn and replaced with guidance that protects all children including the privacy, safety and dignity of girls and fairness in girls sport?

I know this is an issue that is very important to some of you. This issue falls within the Government Equalities Office’s brief and the Government’s response to the Gender Recognition Act will be published in the coming months. Sorry not to be able to say more at this time.

@WombatChocolate

When would you expect schools to get a definitive answer as to whether the return on 1 June is to go ahead, because the 5 tests have been met? When will the cut-off for making this decision be please?

We are keeping the proposed phased return under review and it will progress only if the five key tests set by Government justify the changes at the time, including that the rate of infection is decreasing andthe enabling programmes set out in the Roadmap are operating effectively. We will keep this under continual review and be guided by science.

@SueVide

The government has significantly weakened LAs' responsibility to provide the support detailed in EHCPs. Given that so many LAs were already failing in their duty to these children, is the Minister concerned that cash strapped LAs will use this as an opportunity to cut back SEND provision? What safeguards are there to ensure that children with SEND will receive the support they need to access an education?

My thoughts are particularly with those with special needs and disabilities at this time. This is a challenge unlike any we have faced in our lifetimes. We know that this period is particularly hard for those children and young people with SEND, their families and those who support them. We have made some changes to the law to balance the needs of children and young people with SEND with the ability of local authorities (LA) and health services to respond to the pandemic. Our aim is that, as far as possible EHC processes continue and children and young people with SEND get the provision they need, whilst accepting that this might have to be done differently for now. It is vital that LAs, health services, education settings, children and young people with SEND and their families and others involved continue to work together. I am monitoring the use of these temporary modifications closely to ensure that they are being used appropriately. Councils are receiving an additional £3.2 billion to manage any additional pressures, including support for vulnerable children.

'Those children who have other, less serious, conditions may be able to return to school unless their doctor advises against it - so can I suggest you discuss this with your GP.'

This was not my question, but was of a similar nature earlier on in the thread. What do you do then if the GP didn't know this was in the school guidance to seek medical advice, and then said they don't know when asked about your child returning?

If the government would like us as parents to ask the GP this needs to be made clear in the guidance and GPs need to be aware they should be giving out this advice.

Has the government taken on board the opinions of the British Medical Association who state 'the plan is too fast, too confusing and too risky' and that we need to know more about the infectivity of children, as a stufy in Germany suggests that children are just as infectious as adults even if they are asymptomatic?

Hi Vicky,
Still looking for answers on financial support for early years settings - many have said they cannot afford to reopen in June.

Please can you explain why small charitable nurseries have not received the £10000 business grant that those in receipt of SBRR have received - even though you promised in your letter to the early years sector 24/03/20 that settings with charitable relief would be included?

Thank you so much for all your questions - I'm so sorry but time has run out. A HUGE thank you to all Mums, Dads, Carers and CHILDREN at this very challenging time. I would also like to give a huge thank you to everyone who is looking out for vulnerable children, especially foster carers, social workers and teachers and early years staff as well as those helping children in children's homes. As well as charities and mental health staff - and of course all our critical workers and their children. THANK YOU. If you are concerned about a child that you think might be suffering harm or neglect please do contact the NSPCC on their super helpline 0808 800 5000. If its urgent then do contact the police. And if you have an emergency please do call 999 or go to A&E. THANK YOU ALL!

Why have small charitable nurseries not received the £10000 business grant that those in receipt of SBRR have received - even though you promised in your letter to the early years sector 24/03/20 that settings with charitable relief would be included?

My son in Year 12 hasn’t had any mock exams, so has no true indication of where he is at. His mental health is declining as he works from early morning to late evenings trying to cover the content that he needs to as he is being offered no support from his school, whereas other students are getting online face-to-face zoom lessons. My question is what is the likelihood that exams next year are cancelled and replaced with a more fair approach such as coursework or teacher assessment (or a combination) so that no student is disadvantaged and receives the true grade that they would’ve received had this pandemic not occurred.