Webchat with Catherine Mayer, author and co-founder of the Women's Equality Party - Thursday 30 March, 1-2pm

[RachelMumsnet]

We’re pleased to announce that Catherine Mayer will be joining us for a webchat this Thursday 30 March at 1pm.

Catherine is an American-born British author and journalist, and the co-founder of the Women's Equality Party (WE) in the UK. Her latest book, "Attack of the 50ft Women: How gender equality can save the world", asks why there's not a single country in the world which has achieved gender equality. She takes us on a journey to a fantasy gender-equal world she calls Equalia. What is it like? Does gender equality make for a society that is more equal in other ways too? Who does the low-paid jobs? How does gender express itself in a place freed from gender programming? The book is insightful, revelatory and funny and well worth a read.

Please do join us on the day here for a live discussion from 1pm on Thursday but if you can’t make it, leave your question for Catherine on this thread. As ever, please remember our webchat guidelines.

I don't want to sound rude but there's been 7 answers in an hour. That's not a lot.

@MrsToddsShortcut

Hi Catherine, do you think there's any way of reversing what I would describe as the dilution or defanging of feminism? I increasingly hear people talk about feminism as 'inclusive/for everyone/about equality for everyone. It really isn't! It's about liberation of women from patriarchal power structures.

The insistence now that feminism is about 'empowerment' and 'choice' is based on a very Capitalist/Neo-liberal axis and it seems to me to be based on the ideas of us as consumers than about any real desire to see women rise up. So many women genuinely believe that equality has been achieved because they themselves are okay. In the meantime, we are in the middle of the biggest global rollback of women's rights in around 30 years. The portrayal of feminism as a fluffy cool 'club' that everyone can join seems to me to be a deliberate attempt to dilute it's power and misdirect the focus away from women, by persuading them that everyone is more oppressed than they are. In the meantime, hey! Look at that great lipstick!

Is 'equality' what we actually want (as opposed to liberation) and how do we get feminism back on track as a genuinely strong political movement, as opposed to a touch feely lifestyle choice?

@MrsToddsShortcut I agree with the premise of your question and frankly often shudder at the word "empowerment" though some of my favourite people use it all the time and with good intentions. The sort of feminism that just seeks to replace men in corner offices with some women in big shoulder pads doesn't interest me. That is not to say that the makeup of boards and businesses doesn't matter. Representation at all levels and in all fields and endeavours matters. But in writing Attack of the 50 Ft Women I directly tackle the question of what the world looks like that I believe we are aiming for, and it is a far greater change than just balanced representation. (In the final chapter I take readers on a tour of the future that could be ours, Equalia.) There is much about the way the world is currently constituted that is unsustainable and undesirable.

@FloraFox

Catherine - why do you think there are no countries in the world that have achieved equality between men and women, despite there being many different types of cultures, government and political systems? What do you think is fundamental to the struggle for women's rights across the world?

@FloraFox It's a question I've frequently asked myself, given the fact that mainstream politics in many countries are supposedly all signed up to that equality and that the economic arguments for increasing female economic participation and for institutions functioning better if more diverse at all levels are well and widely established. Not only that but there's a ton of research into the benefits in terms of mental health outcomes and wellbeing of more equal societies.

One thing that the US elections made abundantly clear is that there are forces out there that are threatened by women and are keen to put us back in our boxes. If you look at women's history, every advance is followed by backlash. Those men and their female allies, who mistakenly believe their best shot at security and stability is in acquiescing to these ideologies, are at least open in their opposition. A more pernicious problem is that a lot of men who consider themselves sympathetic to feminismwho may even call themselves feministsdon't do enough to move the dial and sometimes actively stand in the way of progress. This morning I wrote a little rant about all the men who come up to me and say "I bought your bookfor the wife". It's symptomatic of this thinking that the huge issues addressed in the bookabout power, distribution of wealth, the organisation of societies, the raising of children--aren't of interest to them, aren't their business, because they label them "women's issues".

How do we stop male violence though? Every week, two women are killed in the UK according to domestic violence statistics. Almost every crime programme/series on television or in the cinema has a female victim, killed, maimed, destroyed by a male perpetrator usually and all in the name of 'entertainment'.
The oppression of women through violence alone has to be tackled before any meaningful debate can be won.

Catherine do you think it is because across all cultures men as a class seek to exploit women's sexual, reproductive and domestic labour and use a variety of concepts of gender to achieve this?

@ObamaRama

Hi Catherine,

What is your strategy for engaging with men on the topic of women's equality so that they don't lapse immediately into the #notallmen defensive position? Most of the men I know are all kind, intelligent and brilliant, but they lack empathy for women's struggles and take offence when "men" are blamed.

Trying to work out the answer to this @ObamaRama. See my last answer and if you have suggestions, let me know

@AlphaMama

I'm a firm believer that people should get jobs on merit and ability, not to fulfill some equality quota (whether that's gender, race, disability - whatever).

However, do you think May risks following in Thatcher's footsteps? So far she hasn't really made any great strides for gender / sex equality in the UK since becoming PM... Aside from simply assigning women to cabinet so the split is more equal, what else do you think May could do to help encourage more women (and those from other minority backgrounds) to get into politics to create a more representative House of Commons?

The problem @AlphaMama is that "merit" and "ability" are too often judged through the lens of men from similar educational backgrounds and with similar outlook, who like to surround themselves with people who think just like them. Quotas can't fix inequality on their own but they're a hugely useful tool for speeding change in conjunction with other mechanisms and support. If you doubt the need, just look at how much mediocrity makes it to the top of politics.

I rather think May would love to follow in Thatcher's footsteps and she clearly recoils from the idea of framing her politics as feminist or using gender analysis to make better policy. Which is a shame because her politics are the poorer for that.

On a very basic level, the fact of a female PM is helpful to show girls they can rise. But nobody should get too excited. Globally the number of women prime ministers and elected presidents is fewer than 8%

@Magicpenny

The cover to your book is fantastic - I only just realised it's based on a film. Is it worth seeing?

Another question if that's okay - do you have any recommendations for feminist literature? I'm trying to get my daughter to read some literary classics and would appreciate any suggestions.

Thank you @Magicpenny. The film is sort of unintentionally hilarious, a 1958 B-movie about the dangers of the power of women unleashed. I would love to see it again and hope one of the broadcasters shows it soon. Maybe we should organise a special showing.

I've just reread The Handmaid's Tale, which is wonderful, and want to return to Stepford Wives soon. I'm a sci fi fan and also read Left Hand of Darkness again while writing Attack of the 50 Ft Women. There's a fantastic young author called Nnedi Okorafor who is great and uses the genre to explore all sorts of important ideas.

Some of the great classics of feminist writing are always worth a look even if some of their ideas are dated or wrong-headed. The Feminine Mystique is interesting to me because the research is rooted in the era and culture that produced my parents. And the Female Eunuch is brilliantly written and often sidesplitting. What's that line? "No woman wants to find out that she has a twat like a horse-collar". Um, how old is your daughter?

If it helps, Catherine and Magicpenny, I read The Female Eunuch when I was fifteen, and I consider that it saved me, because I had an eating disorder at the time, and it helped me find a way out of it, by discussing honestly about the bullshit that women as a sex are expected to conform to.

It has just been pointed out to me that I've outstayed my welcome by 23 minutes. There are many questions I didn't get round to and many topics I felt we could have discussed and I certainly wasn't trying to dodge any debates as any of you who read Attack of the 50 Ft Women will see. In any case, it has been a pleasure. Thanks for the conversation

Just read through this much later in the day.

Didn't know much about the WEP before now, and reading the way the leader/writer has completely refused to engage with what are clearly very important issues for women on the thread - I find this hugely disappointing.

I don't know much about feminism, just beginning to read all sorts to educate myself - but clearly there are some significant current issues to do with erosion of womens voices and spaces. If the WEP doesn't adequately address these - ignores the voices raising them - I don't see what the point is.

I'm very sorry to have missed this webchat, there were some great questions asked, even if only a few were answered.

@CatherineMayer if you are still following this thread at all -

• I'm another who would desperately love to support a party that is campaigning for women's equality but I can't as long as you don't have a definition of 'woman' and as long as you appear to be campaigning for additional rights for male people, to the detriment of women.

I'm also turned off by your appropriation of intersex people (XX people who don't have a vagina). Intersex people have asked not to be dragged into this debate, it would be good if everybody could respect that.

Your book looks fun and the cover is ace but I am reminded I still have the female eunuch sitting on the shelf not yet read and it's probably a more urgent read.

MNHQ please please please can you organise a webchat:

• on the topic of sex/gender, legal & policy/guidelines changes and the impact these are having on women and children

• with someone who can give us straight answers & who has a bit of clout

• where we are not told to shush after a few questions about sex/gender

There have been loads of good suggestions on sitestuff for people to invite and I'm sure you've collected a lot more via the surveys you've been doing on webchats.

If nobody with sufficient clout is willing to engage, would you be willing to think about a MN campaign so we can put forward our voices? I know that's a big ask

I greatly appreciate the effort you make to allow debate to happen on this issue. I can't think of anywhere else on the internet where this discussion is happening on such an uncensored, civilised and accessible level. I realise you must be collectively tearing your hair out

That was all rather vague and used a lot of weird turn of phrase. What happened?
Mumsnet:can we drop the gender equality and just call it sex? This isn't the Victorian era.

I was sceptical about WEP before but this webchat has just cemented it, there is no way I would ever vote for a WEP candidate.