Are you worried about your alcohol intake? Do you regularly think about quitting? Join our webchat with Lucy Rocca, founder of soberistas.com, Wednesday 1 February, 9-10pm

[RachelMumsnet]

Dry Jan is about to end but should the sobriety continue?
We’re running a webchat on Wednesday 1 February, 9-10pm with Lucy Rocca, founder of Soberistas.com and author of Sober Revolution and The A-Z Of Binning the Booze.

Whether you are concerned about your drinking, thinking of quitting or living a life of sobriety, put the date in your diary to come and chat to Lucy - or feel free to post up a question for Lucy in advance on this thread. Everyone who joins the thread will be entered into a draw to win of five signed copies of A-Z of Binning the Booze.

More about Lucy and Soberistas.com
Lucy Rocca was a heavy and regular binge drinker for her entire adult life up until the age of 35. After a particularly heavy binge that landed her in hospital she decided to quit drinking altogether, and founded Soberistas in November 2012. Since then she has gone on to write five books on the subject of alcohol dependency, and now works full time as editor and director of Soberistas. Lucy lives in Sheffield with her two daughters.



Soberistas.com is a social network website aimed at worried binge drinkers. Non-judgmental and non-prescriptive, Soberistas offers a safe and anonymous online space where members of the site can share their concerns about alcohol and support one another in becoming booze-free.

My biggest problem is sleeping. If I dont drink I am awake all night.

Hi Lucy, I'm interested to hear that you started drinking as a teenager. Were you a heavy drinker from an eaerly age? I definitely think patterns were formed when I first started drinking and am really keen to help my teens have a healthy relationship with alcohol from the start. Do you have any tips on talking to teens about drinking?

@Wannabesociallysober

I attempted dry Jan for the first time this year but didn't last the full month - gave up at a birthday do with some v persuasive friends. Now i'm back to drinking as much as I was before. I realise this is too much and I would really like to stop drinking altogether BUT i can't imagine going out and not drinking and my social life does seem to revolve around bars/pubs or dinner parties where wine is always flowing freely. Did you have to change your social life after you quit drinking? How difficult was/is it to go out and have fun but stay sober (honestly!)?

Thank you

Hi Wannabesociallysober - this is a really common worry and it's probably the thing that stopped me from addressing the fact that i drank too much for so long. Western society (and especially the UK) is so heavily booze orientated, and you see this even more when you aren't drinking. There are references to booze everywhere, and everyone expects you to drink! So it is majorly daunting to contemplate a social life free from alcohol. In answer to your question about my own social life and whether I made any changes, the answer is yes, I did make a lot. But they have all worked out for the best and in the end, I am a much happier person than the one who used to make an idiot out of herself so many times at parties etc!
There are a few things here to bear in mind: 1) I noticed when I stopped drinking that a lot of my social circle was made up of people who drank a lot. And without the booze, I didn't actually have much in common with a lot of them. In this respect, I did a bit of a 'clear out' of friends, and found that the real ones who I still had lots in common with became much better and closer friends. The ones who I lost touch with just drifted away, as a natural result of not having much in common.
2) When you don't drink, standing about in pubs and being with obviously drunk people can be less than fun! I started to do different things with my time, and if I did go to a pub or restaurant then it was with the friends who I really liked, the ones whose company I was going for (rather than previously when I had been going out with people just to have a night of drinking).
3) The first few months were pretty hard for me to learn how to socialise without alcohol. It didn't come instantly because I had relied on Dutch courage for over 20 years and in reality I was rather more shy than I had ever thought. But gradually over time, I found my feet and now I have no problem at all going out stone cold sober, in fact I would say that I prefer it because the old fears I used to have about getting drunk and doing something stupid have gone.
Lots to say on this and it is a bit concern but it gets easier with time and I think it's a state of mind more than anything else...Hope that helps a bit!

Hi Lucy. My husband and I have wine in the house all the time. We often have a glass with dinner and neither of us are binge drinkers. I was brought up thinking that this moderate approach to alcohol wasn't unhealthy. Now I have my own children I wonder whether if there wasn't any alcohol around as they grow up, they'd seek it out as more of a 'forbidden' substance. What do you think is the best approach?

I have only just seen this chat and thought I'd pop in as, coincidentally, this is the first evening in a good few weeks that I am completely sober (hurrah!)

I tend to drink habitually every night (usually around 2/3 of a bottle of wine) and know it's related to low level anxiety. Unfortunately alcohol is a lovely, quick and easy way to 'take the edge off' in the evening but I am worried about the long term impacts (as well as it being a vicious cycle - drink to quell anxiety then feel crap and unmotivated the next day which leads to more anxiety which leads to another glass of wine and so on).

My question is - do you have any ideas of evening activities/alternatives to alcohol that can help break the habit of reaching for a drink and soothe anxiety without being so harmful?

@Minesamocca

Hi Lucy, I'm interested to hear that you started drinking as a teenager. Were you a heavy drinker from an eaerly age? I definitely think patterns were formed when I first started drinking and am really keen to help my teens have a healthy relationship with alcohol from the start. Do you have any tips on talking to teens about drinking?

Hi Minesamocca - thank you for this, it's something that I am really interested in because of the commonly heard statement that alcohol addiction is always progressive. I ALWAYS drank excessively and without an off switch right from the start, my drinking never really escalated except for the fact that I had more money as an adult and more opportunity to drink once I could go out to pubs and clubs. I remember being at parties as a teenager and people hiding the booze in the oven (not switched on!) from me because I was so desperate to get my hands on more.
I grew up just accepting that I would be a drinker, I never contemplated not doing so. And I gravitated towards other heavy drinkers, slowly dropping all the activities that I had enjoyed which didn't involve drinking.
The stats show that younger people are now drinking less and there is far more awareness of the health implications of excessive drinking than there was 25 years ago. I think a major thing we can do to help our teenage children to not have a problem relationship with alcohol is to not drink routinely ourselves as parents - it's difficult to expect them to not drink when they have grown up seeing their parents drink regularly and excessively. But I also think as a society we need to do more to provide kids with other things to do. When I was a teenager there was literally nothing to do except hang out and get drunk - no sports clubs or youth clubs, etc.
It's difficult to swim against the tide of normalised binge drinking that is so culturally prevalent in the UK, but I do think that if we as parents can demonstrate that you don't need to get drunk to have a good time, it's a good start.

@Mcakes

I have only just seen this chat and thought I'd pop in as, coincidentally, this is the first evening in a good few weeks that I am completely sober (hurrah!)

I tend to drink habitually every night (usually around 2/3 of a bottle of wine) and know it's related to low level anxiety. Unfortunately alcohol is a lovely, quick and easy way to 'take the edge off' in the evening but I am worried about the long term impacts (as well as it being a vicious cycle - drink to quell anxiety then feel crap and unmotivated the next day which leads to more anxiety which leads to another glass of wine and so on).

My question is - do you have any ideas of evening activities/alternatives to alcohol that can help break the habit of reaching for a drink and soothe anxiety without being so harmful?

Hi Mcakes, thanks for this. You're right - alcohol is a fast and easy way to take the edge off, and that's why it is so common as a means of unwinding! The problem starts when drinking brings with it associated problems, and begins to creep up to amounts that will put the drinker into higher risk categories for a number of health harms. Like you, my own drinking habit used to have a subtle but significant impact on the following day, so I would sack off going to the gym, I'd eat loads of carbs and fatty foods, and I would just not feel motivated to get much done. But it can be a hard habit to break!
I have found that as a non-drinker, I get nowhere near as stressed as I used to as a drinker, so I don't find the need to relax quite so much as I once did. If I do feel a bit stressed out these days, running is my number one answer and it works every time. I don't think I've ever felt worse after a run than when I set out at the start.
Establishing a really soothing bedtime routine and having a nice, relaxing bedroom to enjoy also helps. I love using nice toiletries, putting my PJs on and snuggling up with a good book, and this also has the added bonus of helping me sleep which reduces stress levels too.
As with a lot of things connected to quitting drinking, it's a time thing and it will take time to break the habit of reaching for a glass of wine, but over time I think not drinking is a far more relaxing way to live - and there are none of the hassles of hangovers/drunken behaviour that you regret the morning after/etc that all add to stress levels. Good luck!

@lonelyThursday

Hi Lucy, I have a friend who knows they have a drinking problem. Is there anything I can do to help? I have tried to talk about it with them over the years, but I don't know if anything I say or do will make a difference. It feels like the only way they are going to change is really hit rock bottom. Thanks.

Hi lonelyThursday - trying to help a friend who has a drink problem is really difficult because of all the problems out there, getting someone to admit they have an issue with alcohol is up there with the hardest. When I think back to some of the stuff that happened to me as a result of my drinking, I can't believe that I didn't fully acknowledge that I needed to quit drinking years before I actually did it!
Many times people do need to hit rock bottom, but there are also loads of people on Soberistas who haven't and who simply want to stop because they have had enough of feeling a bit hungover every day, and worrying about their health, and knowing that they aren't really in control of how much they drink.
The thing that helps a lot of people is to read about or talk to other people who drink in the same way they do and who HAVE acknowledged that they need to quit. Soberistas has a Personal Stories page and this is a massive trigger for getting people to recognise their own issues, and for becoming inspired to do something about them. When I first stopped drinking, I really thought it was just me. But from being in touch with so many thousands of people since who have the same problem, I have been able to contextualise and understand my relationship with alcohol, in a really helpful way.
Perhaps it would do your friend some good to just have a read around some of the blogs on Soberistas (you can join for free and get a week's full access free so it wouldn't cost them any money to do this) - it may well help them to see that their drinking is actually quite hazardous, but also that there are people living happily without alcohol who once had major problems with it themselves.
It is a challenge but I think gentle and subtle persuasion together with a totally non-judgmental and supportive ear, is the way forward with this. Good luck.

@Youhaditoncebutnowitsgone

Hi Lucy. My husband and I have wine in the house all the time. We often have a glass with dinner and neither of us are binge drinkers. I was brought up thinking that this moderate approach to alcohol wasn't unhealthy. Now I have my own children I wonder whether if there wasn't any alcohol around as they grow up, they'd seek it out as more of a 'forbidden' substance. What do you think is the best approach?

Hi there, I think this is a very difficult thing to gauge! My parents were reasonably moderate drinkers when I was growing up and were advocates of the French style 'thimble full of wine' with Sunday dinner for my sister and me, so alcohol was not the forbidden fruit at all when I was a child. However, I went on to drink like a fish from the age of 13 onwards!
Having said that, peer influence is a big factor as well as parental influence and who your children's role models will also play a part in this. I think as parents we can demonstrate to our kids that you don't need alcohol to have a good time, and that there are alternative drinks to be enjoyed - society tends to ram it down all our throats that we must drink alcohol to have fun/be relaxed/enjoy a meal/etc. and this will inevitably rub off on our children. But it is possible to counteract it a bit - although at the end of the day, there are external factors that we can't control when it comes to teenager behaviour. Hope this helps!

Lucy is going to stay on and answer as many Qs as she can get through that have already been posted. Thanks to everyone for taking part - it's been a really interesting webchat and thanks so much Lucy for your thoughtful and really detailed answers.

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants

I have given up drinking for long periods of time sucessfully. I have heard a theory that some people, who really ought to give it up completely, give up until a certain point, then feel better and think they can control it, and that this is often around the six month mark. They then start again, and the cycle continues....currently I am doing dry January. Do you have any thoughts on this 'danger time' after sucessfully ceasing to drink? TIA

Hi SpongeBob - I was definitely one of the people you mention here! I would go on a detox, stop drinking for a few weeks and neck loads of smoothies and healthy juices, and then after a few weeks of being sober I would get horribly drunk to celebrate! (And also because I had proved to myself that I clearly could control my intake!!)
There is a tendency to get rose tinted glasses on after a period of being dry, believing that you've done so well and therefore you probably didn't need to stop. I would say regarding this, that you need to ask yourself how problematic was your drinking? If you regularly drink more than you set out to, hate yourself the morning after, do stupid things when drunk that you later regret, and generally find that alcohol makes you miserable a lot, then what would be different this time? This is a hard thing to wrap your head around, admittedly - it took me 22 years! But once I had accepted that I would always run into problems with booze, I was able to get on with a life of not drinking with a permanent approach, rather than just being on the wagon for short bursts. Good luck with it!

@lilybetsy

A question from Me...

Being sober is now pretty easy, not drinking at parties / social events etc. I barely think about it (almost 11 months in) what IS hard, and shows no sign of getting better is living with all the raw emotions that I can no longer stuff down with alcohol ... any thoughts / tips ?.

Hi lilybetsy, a great question and something I've written about a lot - and that comes up on Soberistas a lot. Emotions are easily ignored when we drink - I drank when I was happy, sad, bored, excited and so on...in fact I would say that I don't think I genuinely felt an emotion in my entire adult life until I was 35 and stopped drinking. And when I first quit, it was HORRIBLE to feel the negative emotions. I couldn't cope with it at all, especially the stress and sadness. I just wanted to blot it out, as I always had done. I would say that it took about 18 months to 2 years for me to get used to feeling my emotions, and I've realised that in doing this I have grown up massively. I know myself, I'm not scared any more about feeling emotional pain and I would even go as far as saying that I quite like it now - in an odd way, I know that the emotional experiences I go through are helping me grow as a person. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and all that! I also get a bit of a kick out of knowing that I am pretty tough these days, I don't feel scared anymore of the things in life that used to scare me. So while it is hard, there are major plus points too, to feeling our emotions properly. And it does get easier with time, I promise!

@worriedbigsis

I'm curious as to why your forum is closed behind a registration, rather than open to all - like Mumsnet? I would have liked to search there for information on liver function tests and ultrasounds during Dry January, but ended up using other forums because I didn't want to register.

Hi worriedbigsis - Soberistas is free to join and all new members get a week's full access completely free. There is an Ask the Doctor page which you'd be able to look at during your week's free trial which has loads of info on LFT's. The reason we are not a free site after that initial free week is because we have to cover running costs. I suspect Mumsnet covers their running costs via advertising but we don't have anywhere near the traffic of this site so therefore our advertising revenue is fairly modest! Hope this helps answer your query.

@Wantedtobe

I have tried to stop drinking in the past but social events have always been where I've found it hardest to resist and given in. I think not going out for a few months might be the answer for me! How do you suggest coping with social situations - are they best avoided? Or a challenge that needs to be overcome at some point so you might as well try from the start? Thanks.

Hi Wantedtobe, I have answered a question earlier about socialising sober so I will try not to repeat myself! It is hard at first, going out without alcohol but I think over time it gets easier and there are a few things that can help in the meantime. Choosing social situations that do not revolve around alcohol (theatre for example, or a meal in a restaurant, where food becomes a focus and not just booze) can help, socialising with people who you really like and who make you feel good about yourself, having something organised for the mornings where you will need to be clear headed to enjoy (going to the gym for example, or going somewhere nice with the kids) can all help. I did stay in a bit at first when I initially stopped drinking but once I realised that there was loads to do that didn't involve getting hammered I was really happy with picking up my social life again! Good luck with it,

thugmansion Wed 01-Feb-17 21:19:58

My biggest problem is sleeping. If I dont drink I am awake all night.??

@Leviticus

Hi Lucy, I've read and really liked most of your books and also watched 'my name is' on tv. I know that you are completely sober but don't necessarily class yourself as an 'alcoholic'. Do you ever struggle to stay sober? Do you feel extra pressure to succeed now you've written books and offered advice to others?

Hi Leviticus - thank you for your question and glad you have liked the books! I knew when I stopped drinking that if I didn't learn to love being sober as much as I loved drinking, I would never succeed. So I did a pretty thorough job on retraining my brain! I don't like alcohol and what it did to me, and I don't miss it at all. I genuinely wouldn't drink even if I knew I could moderate which I suspect I can't even after not touching alcohol for 6 years. I just love my life as a sober person - I love the clarity and the fact that my mood is on an even keel, I don't look haggard and knackered all the time, and I'm really into my fitness now which I love. So no, I find it pretty easy these days - that's not to say it wasn't a challenge in the first year or two as I got used to life without Pinot Grigio! But now I would never go back.

I think that's all there's time for but thanks a lot for your great questions and for having me on Mumsnet! I hope my answers have helped but if you do need any more advice, please do drop me a line on [email protected] - thanks again, and goodnight xx

Thanks Lucy!

Hi thugmansion, we had a message from Lucy this morning who apologises for missing your question. Here is her answer:

thugmansion:
My biggest problem is sleeping. If I dont drink I am awake all night.??

Lucy Rocca:
Alcohol can help in getting off to sleep but it doesn’t allow for quality, restful sleep, and drinking in the evening often means we wake up feeling tired and groggy even though we have been sleeping. It’s a very easy habit to get into and I (as I suffered from insomnia for many years) used to drink a lot of wine to get myself to sleep, for years. As with most things to do with quitting alcohol, time is required here. It will be difficult at first to get used to falling asleep without alcohol, but once your body adjusts you will find that you get better, deeper sleep and wake up feeling much more rested. I have copied a very comprehensive answer below from the Soberistas Ask the Doctor page as I’m not a medical professional but our Dr. Rachel is! This is her advice for someone on Soberistas who was having difficulty sleeping without drinking first…good luck! Lucy

"Firstly, congratulations on being alcohol free for five months- a terrific achievement! Your sleep disturbance is, I am sorry to say, extremely common in people who have recently stopped drinking, particularly if they were previously alcohol dependent. The relationship between alcohol and sleep is very complex. We know that people who drink also suffer with sleep disturbance and poor quality sleep with subsequent day time sleepiness and fatigue. Many people drink thinking it will help sleep and it may help some get off to sleep initially but then tends to disturb the second phase of sleeping leading to periods of wakefulness during the night. This seems to persist for some time in the withdrawal stage. It may last a few weeks but in the unfortunate few can persist for almost two years. Here is an extract from a study by Williams and Rundell, ‘Altered sleep physiology in chronic alcoholics: reversal with abstinence’: Somnograms obtained from recently abstinent chronic alcoholics reveal gross disruption succinctly described as "fractured" sleep. Sleep onset is delayed and the rhythmic properties of the sleep pattern are markedly disturbed with numerous brief arousals and changes of sleep stage. Excessive stage 1 and stage rapid eye movement sleep are present while the high voltage slow wave sleep is markedly reduced or absent. With continued sobriety (9 months or more) the sleep stage percentages tend to return to normal levels, but the disruption of the sleep pattern persists after as much as 21 months of abstinence.

There are sometimes other factors involved in why we may not be sleeping so well such as low mood, weight gain, excessive caffeine intake, over stimulation from screens such as phones, laptops, tablets and TVs, increasing age (we need fewer hours as we get older and sleep patterns tend to change).

The question is what is to be done? My experience as a GP is that pharmaceuticals (i.e. medication) are rarely a good idea. Conventional sleeping tablets tend to be addictive and we get tolerant to their effects. Over the counter herbal remedies probably do no harm but may not be very effective. A few people with significant depression may be helped by an antidepressant called Mirtazapine which has a mild sedating side-effect particularly in low dose (15mg).

However, I think it is best to take a holistic approach. The first step is to accept this as a normal part of the recovery process, your brain and body are healing in the same way that if you get a minor injury like a burn, as it heals, it itches. Your brain needs to re-learn self-soothing and this can take longer with some brains. Keep your caffeine intake down, take some regular exercise in the fresh air and eat your fruit and vegetables. Avoid screens for at least an hour before bed and have a good wind down routine. Have a look at what the average sleep time should be for your age group and remember, it is an average; some will need fewer hours than others. Acceptance is the key. If you have a biphasic sleep, i.e. you sleep from 10pm to 2am, and then have a couple of waking hours and then sleep again from 4am to 8am, that is not too bad. The most important thing is not to relapse into drinking as this will set your sleep disturbance back."