Webchat about emotional and domestic abuse with author and journalist, Colette Snowden, Monday 28 November, 9-10pm

[RachelMumsnet]

Author and journalist Colette Snowden is joining us for a webchat on Monday 28 November, where she will be talking about her own experiences of emotional and psychological abuse and answering your questions.

Earlier this year when The Archers' storyline on domestic abuse became a topic of much discussion on Mumsnet, Colette wrote a guest blog describing the difficulty she had in escaping an abusive relationship, which provoked much discussion. Last month we ran a giveaway of her novel, The Secret to Not Drowning, the story of a woman trapped in an abusive relationship - and readers have been sharing their thoughts on this compelling and powerful novel.

Please do join Colette and put your questions to her on Monday 28th November, between 9 and 10pm. If you can't make that time, post your question on this thread in advance.

UPDATE: We'll be raising money this Christmas for victims of domestic violence - we'll announce more soon, but do keep an eye out this December. We'll be shouting about it on the boards and we'll match-fund donations to the charities up to a total of £10k.

@magolin

Just thanks Colette for writing this x

Hi

I met a lady at a workshop who told me that the book had made he make some big decisions she'd been putting off for a long time. I've tried to articulate how insidious domestic abuse can be - without even becoming violent. I hope the book will help people see that others will understand their situation and give them something to share to explain their situation if they can't find a way to explain their own experiences.

@FoofFighter

Any tips for someone who was isolated due to having to go into emergency homeless accommodation, with a baby, working ft still, no wifi to stay connected with mutual friends often - then the abusive ex got in there first, no idea what's been said but a lot of my "friends" have drifted away - don't make plans any more, don't include me when plans ARE made, invite ex to stuff and not me, don't reply to my messages etc

I feel alone and sad. His manipulation and abuse continues.

Hello

I read your message yesterday and have been thinking about how to reply all day today. First of all, well done for stepping away and continuing to hold down a job and care for your child - never stop reminding yourself how brilliantly you've done to achieve that. When it comes to your friends, it's so sad that they have let you down in this way and I know it must feel like he has won by manipulating them and walking away with the friendship of people you trusted. I am sure, in your situation, I would want to fight back and hold on to those relationships but perhaps its better to start afresh with people who don't remind you of that part of your life. I'm sure you have some tough times ahead but you'e taken the hardest step and - remind yourself again - that's pretty amazing. Find people who understand what you've been through and will help you rebuild. They will be out there (they're probably in this webchat right now!)

I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed this book. "Enjoyed" being a word that is strange to use about such a subject matter. I think we need people like you to write about these sorts of things instead of them being brushed under the carpet.
I have a close friend who I think might enjoy this book for her own personal reasons and I am going to recommend it to her.
Well done.

@Uzma01

Given the sensitive subject matter - I found the style engaging and easy to get into, I thought I'd have a hard time reading it. I instantly liked Marion - just willing her on to break away.

DV has become something so widespread now, maybe it's that more women are coming forward due to the support available or there is less stigma surrounding such situations. I have several friends and acquaintances working with victims of DV and the stories are horrifying.

How much was the book based on your own experiences?

Hi, thanks for your comments. The book is based on my experience but not on my personal story. It was quite important to me though that this was an emotional/psychological/manipulative form of abuse rather than violent. I wanted to show that an abuser doesn't have to use physical force to control how another person thinks and feels.

Colette, How much do you think self-esteem affects whether you see yourself as suffering from domestic abuse? I came from a family where emotional abuse was part of us growing up. I knew my marriage felt wrong, but it was only when he started this stuff on our DD that I got out. I felt I had a duty to her, that I had not felt towards my own emotional well-being oddly. I'm wondering if there was more self-esteem work as part of the education system, that would help.

@greencarbluecar

Have you got any thoughts on how things need to improve to help victims genuinely escape the abuse? I know this is a huge question, and all too many of us are aware of the damage that can be caused by bad or negligent reactions by professionals who are supposed to help at times of crisis, but I'm also thinking about post-separation ongoing issues, after that initial goal of getting out has been achieved.

For example, as a victim of DV you can be told/advised to leave your abuser, remove yourself and your children...and then send them back for contact without you there. You find you have little power to fully prevent them being further exposed to the behaviour of the abusive parent unless it is extreme, and can be dragged through costly and stressful court processes which can end with distressing outcomes. You're further controlled, bullied and harassed through contact and have little access to support as cuts to services deepen. It seems that you're fighting constantly to protect your children and yourself, against or despite the system as well as the often frighteningly manipulative abuser you left, and so you are never free from the risk of emotional harm, even if you are physically safe.

I'm in no way implying that someone in an abusive relationship shouldn't leave; I did, although it took a long time for many reasons. But once that's done, how can those factors above be improved so that victims can become true survivors, not just victims of altered abuse?

Thank you so much for speaking out about this. I hope one day I can be as brave

Hi

You raise some very valid points here that I' sure will resonate with other people on that chat. I'm not sure how to answer because, as positie as I want to be here, there is definitely a legacy to abuse - particularly if there are children involved as the abuser can continue to use them against you and they mean that some level of contact will continue. Even without children there is a legacy in terms of how you see yourself and how you behave in future relationships - whether that's repeating patterns or just fear of repeating a pattern.

Ultimately, your biggest weapon is confidence. To say to yourself every day what you're capable of, what you've achieved and how well you've done in breaking the cycle. Surround yourself with people that will endorse that opinion. One of the first things I did was frame pictures of myself from parts of my life I was proud of and put them on the kitchen wall - you need to be your own life coach.

@aginghippy

My niece has just left her abusive husband again. I hope she doesn't go back to him like she has done previously. What do you think are the best ways for me and the wider family to support her?

Hi, It must be hard watching someone you love go through that. My advice would be to find ways of boosting her confidence and letting her rediscover who she is again. The abuser erodes the person so that they lose their sense of self, in that way, their self becomes wrapped up in being part of the (toxic) relationship...so they go back because it's their only identity. Give her back her sense of self and avoid criticising him. If she's left him, she knows she has reason - let the focus be on her and her future.

Hi :)

Thanks to lovely Mumsnet I was lucky enough to receive a copy of your book Colette! I agree with other posters, I really liked the book, I found your writing style quite different and refreshing, I really looked forward to reading the next part. The end actually made me shed a tear because I connected with where I am in my journey of getting free.

I also have found it impossible to get actual real help and in almost every situation have known more than those who are meant to be there to help :/ And the idiots that keep you there with their ill-informed 'oh, he didn;t mean it' or whatever.

To add to what you said, I have often read that some of the perpetrators deliberately choose strong, clever women - of which I too am one - cos they get a sick enjoyment from tearing them down and keeping them there. And I think sometimes I know I've felt I had to stay cos I couldn't do better, I bet we almost all have because we've been made to feel that way by them, or their predecessors that made us vulnerable in the first place.

But. We are better. Doesn't matter if you can't do 'better' than them, you can do better for YOU and leave their poisonous hold. I finally decided to jump into the abyss and escape, with zero support. No friends, no family, no job, nothing. In the month since I finally did? I have a job, that I love, I have made new friends and I feel free.

Do it. It might take time for you to get there to being ready, but do it xx

(sorry for the tangent, but hope it helps someone!)

@MonsieurBing

I thought this book really communicated how creeping and almost unnoticeable abuse can be - you don't see it happening until it gets really bad. I'm a police officer so I deal with domestic abuse regularly. I'm a response officer so I deal with the initial incident which gets handed over to specialist units to investigate and give further support. How would you like to be dealt with? What are the good things and bad things that we do? What can we do better?

Hi

I only had to call the police once and they were brilliant - from the officers that came to the house to the duty officer that called to say they were releasing him the next day. Compassion is the most important thing - I felt believed, safe and really listened to by the officers that came to my house. They even made me a cup of tea and helped my son put a DVD on for him and his sister who'd been woken up in the night by it all. They behaved like a friend in a crisis - which is what everyone wants, I think.

@davecollins

Hi Collete. A very interesting and beautifully written book. Statistics are increasingly showing that domestic abuse is not a gendered issue but is rather more complex as an issue. Do you think that we are in danger of making what is a social issue a gendered issue and thus indirectly conspiring a great deal of domestic abuse? Many thanks Dave

Hi

I think you're right, that it has become a gendered issue in the media, which perpetuates the notion of women as victims instead of identifying the abusive behaviours that individuals use, regardless of gender. I wrote the novel from a female perspective because I am female and I drew on my own experience but I don't think abusive behaviours are a male trait and I'd be interested to read a novel with the opposite dynamic.

@KnottedAnchorChief

I thought I'd need to brace myself to read this but found it really engaging. The way it's written makes it easy to like Marion and share her sense of frustration and confusion. It made me realise how insidious abuse can be. That it's possible to laugh with your abuser, feel empathy with them and remember the things you like about them when things are going well. My question is - Did you know right from the outset that she would leave? As I was reading I was preparing myself for how I'd feel if she stayed with him.

Hi,

Thanks for your comments. No I didn't. I'm quite chaotic in the way I write and hadn't planned the ending. I needed it to be credible and it was only when I found a way to make it plausible that I felt able to end it the way I have (not going to say it here in case it too much of a spoiler for anyone that hasn't read it yet!)

Can you tell me your thouyghts on addiction as a factor in abuse...and do you think it possible for an abuser to stop abusing following stopping their addiction?

@SallySwann

I love the opening line of this book and the fact that this is a very serious subject and yet you are able to inject humour into it. This is clearly an issue that affects many people, including my eldest daughter. Why is it then that Marion, like so many others in similar situations, continues in the relationship for so long. Also, why do you think that so many in Marion's position go back time and time again to the same abuser?

Hi

It's a complex question and one that everyone that's ever been in an abusive relationship will find hard to answer because from the outside it seems so simple but, when you're in it, it's very hard to see your situation objectively. Part of the abuser's toolkit is to erode your identity and remove your sense of perspective, abusers are very skilled at making you feel responsible for their behaviour. They're also very good at revising what actually happened so you see it as not that bad/all your fault/something you need to change in yourself so that you can both be happy.

As for going back once you've escaped the abuse - even if the abuser is not in your physical environment, if he is still in your head, you're still susceptible to the thought patterns and behaviours.

@saltydogandme

Just downloaded the book - it's 99p on kindle right now .

I escaped a complete narc dickhead in my 20s, but many years later, the relationship still haunts my life, not least because as well as all the lows, there were some great highs. Do you think you (one) can ever really move on?

Hi

I certainly hope so! I think any relationship leaves its mark - good or bad - and we are all the sum of our experiences. To move on though, we have to be able to articulate what happened and why it was unacceptable/damaging. Writing a novel on the subject is a great catharsis!

@Monny

Psychological domestic abuse is hell. It's under the radar and has left my life in suspended animation. He did a domestic abuse course which taught him loads... such as how to tone down behaviour to within 'acceptable' life rules whilst still being abusive and manipulative. "Police officer we're at decri nisi and he says I'm mad and hypnotized, gave DD double dose of vitamins, says I must try at relationship & repeatedly tried to hug me when I was saying no..." Restraining order? LOL ). Can I afford to leave with kids? LOL. I wish I could throw him out, but alas he has rights and is dragging his feet through mediation (courts? Cost is astronomical). Two years, after 18 years with him... Domestic abuse victim services - patchy. One good, one left me in bits (Why didn't I leave, it's abusive to kids staying - but no practical help).

Hi

I really feel for you because the presence of children in an abusive relationship complicates your ability to move on and gives the abuser another weapon against you. I never went to court or mediation as my ex was more than happy to leave me with all the responsibility (physical and financial) while dictating to me when and where he will see the children. everyone's situation is different and there will be set backs and times when you wonder whether you can move forward. But your making steps in the right direction - one foot in front of the other one day at a time!

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants

Colette, How much do you think self-esteem affects whether you see yourself as suffering from domestic abuse? I came from a family where emotional abuse was part of us growing up. I knew my marriage felt wrong, but it was only when he started this stuff on our DD that I got out. I felt I had a duty to her, that I had not felt towards my own emotional well-being oddly. I'm wondering if there was more self-esteem work as part of the education system, that would help.

Hi

I think this is an interesting point - learned behaviours definitely play a part and in the book Marion is bullied by her mum, which sets her up to be bullied by her husband. I think a lack of self esteem definitely makes a person vulnerable to abuse - similarly, in my experience, it can be a root cause of abuse as the abuser belittles his partner to bolster his own self worth.

It's also interesting that you say you didn't recognise it as abuse but saw it as 'normal' - I'm sure that's the case for many people and for many who stand by and watch it happening because they see it as just part of the dynamic of a particular relationship

@userformallyknownasuser1475360

Can you tell me your thouyghts on addiction as a factor in abuse...and do you think it possible for an abuser to stop abusing following stopping their addiction?

Hi

I'm not sure I know enough about this topic. Alcohol played a big role in my own situation as it made my ex very paranoid and aggressive when he was drinking or hungover. It's hard to know though whether the addiction is the problem or something the abuser does to self medicate for the other stuff that's going on in their head?

Colette has kindly agreed to stay on and finish the Qs that are up here now, although we can't take any more...

The reason I ask is that I was (am) an alcoholic, recently split with wife and think there may have been some EA while I was living there, no physical abuse

I think the EA took more of a step of me being moody and over strict with DCs in the house, at the time I didn't see an issue with it, and thought it was normal, however realise now that it was completely wrong

I have been told by an aunt of DW that she had been told by another family member I was controlling, I didn't think I was but when I drill down into it I would have wanted to make sure I was home "on time" to drink

I am now sober, not long enought (3 months) and realise some of the hurt caused. I dont want to go back into the same relationship or another relationship and cause the same issues - (nowhere near considering a new relationshiup yet.

DW and I now live in seperate houses too

@barricade

Many thanks to Mumsnet for a copy of 'The Secret To Not Drowning' by Colette Snowden. I found it a really moving story, highlighting once again not only how individuals of this kind seem to get away with their behaviour, but also the immense difficulties that the abused person faces when trying to escape from it all.

My question to Colette:- Clearly you have gone through some harrowing experiences. How much of it, if any, made it into your book? And if so, how difficult was it to share so much of your personal experiences, and was there anything that you omitted for fear of being judged?

Hi, the book is based on my experience but not on my story because I din't want to write an autobiography but a novel that explored themes of abuse and uncertain perspectives. So for example, Marion has no children, and I have three - her story would have been very different if she'd had to think of children too.

People do judge and it makes me very sad and angry. Someone has recently posted a review of the book on Amazon that talks about how mush they want to give Marion a good slap for being so wet and how she deserved to lose her baby! I wasn't upset that she doesn't like the book (you win some, you lose some!) but that she so fundamentally cannot see that a person can be so trapped by someone else's behaviour is really upsetting.

Many thanks for answering what must have been a difficult question, Colette (especially out of the loads you have).

Plus, really thought-provoking reading all your other responses, too. I hope it helps everyone who is facing difficulties. I also hope for a speedy improvement in the situations of everyone concerned.

@userformallyknownasuser1475360

The reason I ask is that I was (am) an alcoholic, recently split with wife and think there may have been some EA while I was living there, no physical abuse

I think the EA took more of a step of me being moody and over strict with DCs in the house, at the time I didn't see an issue with it, and thought it was normal, however realise now that it was completely wrong

I have been told by an aunt of DW that she had been told by another family member I was controlling, I didn't think I was but when I drill down into it I would have wanted to make sure I was home "on time" to drink

I am now sober, not long enought (3 months) and realise some of the hurt caused. I dont want to go back into the same relationship or another relationship and cause the same issues - (nowhere near considering a new relationshiup yet.

DW and I now live in seperate houses too

Self awareness is the first step to making a change. It's hard for me to comment on your situation but I do wonder if things could have been different for me if my ex had acknowledged or tackled his drinking sooner. I hope things work out for you.

I think there's just PresidentOliviaMumsnet's question left further up the thread - and one I'm interested to hear your response to - what did you think of The Archers storyline?

Hi Colette,
I'm afraid I haven't read your book yet, I will buy it when Christmas is over though, as it sounds very thought provoking and I unfortunately have dv experience too.
I really just wanted to say thank you for bringing this more into the media / limelight or whatever you want to call it! I'm sorry you've had the experience you've had though.
It's still something that really isn't talked about face to face. Very few that know me in rl are aware of my dv history and I still can't open up about it. I almost feel embarrassed that I somehow allowed it to happen. Maybe one day.
Anyway, take care and well done (and I hope that doesn't sound patronising, it certainly wasn't meant that way).

@Endlesssadness

Hi :)

Thanks to lovely Mumsnet I was lucky enough to receive a copy of your book Colette! I agree with other posters, I really liked the book, I found your writing style quite different and refreshing, I really looked forward to reading the next part. The end actually made me shed a tear because I connected with where I am in my journey of getting free.

I also have found it impossible to get actual real help and in almost every situation have known more than those who are meant to be there to help :/ And the idiots that keep you there with their ill-informed 'oh, he didn;t mean it' or whatever.

To add to what you said, I have often read that some of the perpetrators deliberately choose strong, clever women - of which I too am one - cos they get a sick enjoyment from tearing them down and keeping them there. And I think sometimes I know I've felt I had to stay cos I couldn't do better, I bet we almost all have because we've been made to feel that way by them, or their predecessors that made us vulnerable in the first place.

But. We are better. Doesn't matter if you can't do 'better' than them, you can do better for YOU and leave their poisonous hold. I finally decided to jump into the abyss and escape, with zero support. No friends, no family, no job, nothing. In the month since I finally did? I have a job, that I love, I have made new friends and I feel free.

Do it. It might take time for you to get there to being ready, but do it xx

(sorry for the tangent, but hope it helps someone!)

Hi

Thanks so much for this brilliant post - inspirational to lots of people too and I think what you say about doing better for YOU is so true. My ex one told me (about a fortnight after our first child was born) that I'd 'ruined my body with my first baby and no-one else would ever want me'. He was wrong ;-) and I was wrong to imagine that my value was defined by being in a relationship.