EU Referendum: Webchat with Frances O’Grady, TUC General Secretary, Tuesday 21 June, 12 noon

[BojanaMumsnet]

Hello,

We’re pleased to announce a webchat with Frances O’Grady, TUC General Secretary, on Tuesday 21 June at 12 noon. Frances is campaigning for the UK to Remain in the EU.

The TUC says it ‘is concerned that leaving the EU puts at risk many vital workplace rights currently underpinned by EU law – paid holidays, extra maternity rights and better conditions for part-time workers, as well as many better jobs in export-reliant industries’.

Frances is the first female General Secretary of the TUC. She joined the Trades Union Congress in 1994, where she was promoted to head of organising and then Deputy General Secretary before becoming General Secretary in 2013.

During her time at the TUC, Frances has played a key role in negotiations with government and employers and run union recruitment campaigns in workplaces across the country.

The EU referendum will be held on 23 June.

Please do join the chat on Tuesday, or if you can’t make it, please leave a question here in advance. And do bear in mind the webchat guidelines - one question each only (follow-ups allowed if there’s time) and please do be polite.

Photo credit: © Jess Hurd/Report digital.

Thanks
MNHQ

@GrendelsMother23

Hi Frances - thanks for coming to talk to us. I have the feeling that most people, despite the arguments being put forth, will be voting with their instinct on whether to stay in the EU or not, instead of looking at numbers/legal protections or restrictions provided by membership, etc. I recently attended a panel discussion on the EU which focused on the protections it provides women, particularly working women and mothers - and since women are the single biggest undecided group of voters, that seems significant. How do you think is best to go about providing women, workers, undecided voters, etc., with information about the benefits of EU membership? It seems difficult to strike a balance between being informative and being patronizing (i.e. the cringey yoof-speak of the advert that urged "votin'".)

Hi GrendelsMother23
Thanks for your question.
I agree! I didn’t think we have heard enough from working people in this debate, especially women. We have lots of facts and figures on the TUC website and great videos of workers on how they have benefited, feel free to take a look and share. What I’m worried about is that a lot of the rights the unions fought for and are guaranteed by the membership of the EU would be up for grabs if we left. Equal pay for work of equal value, parental leave and emergency time off, equal rights for part timers, protections for pregnant workers …just to mention a few.

@toobusy999

Hi Frances

Thank you for coming on here to talk to us. I have to say I’ve been really turned off by the tone of the debate so far. It’s been dominated by big business and talk of banks and trade deals – no one is talking about what the EU means for the average worker. So I'm pleased that we’re getting to hear from the unions.

I work in the NHS and I’m really worried about what coming out of the EU will mean for the health service and for the public sector in general. My union is supporting Remain and I plan to vote Remain but I’m amazed by how many of my friends are planning to vote Brexit because they see migrants as a drain on services, including health services.

This is a plea more than a question but can you please keep on making the case that the NHS is safer in the EU than out?

Hi toobusy999 thanks for your question and thanks for your hard work for us in the NHS! I'm also worried what leaving the EU will mean for the NHS - both for the staff working within it and also for the public who rely on our health service. The independent IFS says that if we leave the EU that will blow a £30n black hole in the public purse. I'm not saying all of that would fall on the NHS, but it's pretty clear that would mean longer hospital waiting lists and fewer doctors, nurses and midwives. I don't think we can risk it.

@SpringingIntoAction

Hi

As a trade unionist myself I resent being told that almost all workers rights that people like me have fought for over the decades have only been achieved and can only be preserved by being in the EU. I find the diminution of our efforts, as you assign false benefit for these hard won gains to the EU, to be very insulting.

HI SpringingIntoAction

I get fed up with people pretending our rights were gifted too! You’re right we fought long and hard for them across generations and across borders. But all of those rights would be up for grabs if we left the EU.

Priti Patel said she wants to get rid of half of employment protection, Boris Johnson said he wants to pull out of equal rights for part-timers and agency workers and Nigel Farage says he wants to get rid of the Working Time Directive - that protects our right to paid holidays. If we left they’d be in the driving seat and I don’t trust them with our rights.

Hi Frances,
I am hugely concerned about the tone of the EU referendum debate - particularly the anti-immigrant sentiment coming from many Leavers. As a mother of a young child, I was particularly horrified by the murder of Jo Cox last week. What do you think, as a woman operating in what can often be a very confrontational male-dominated environment, can be done to bring more women in to the debate? After all, as mums, the consequences of this referendum will be felt most severely by our children. I personally am in favour of Remain - I believe that trade, cooperation, collaboration that underpins the EU have averted war and promoted learning - and should be supported not abandoned. But I also think it's important that undecided women voters who have genuine concerns on both sides can have their voices heard, questions answered, concerns addressed in a non-aggresive "safe" environment. What do you think can be done?

@kittykitty

Do you agree with Lord Rose that the price of labour will probably go up if we leave the EU? Doesn't that make more of a case for your members to vote Brexit rather than Remain?

Hi kittyKitty

errr ...no

All the experts say our economy will take a big hit if we left. We’d lose trade investment and good well paid jobs, for example in manufacturing. TUC looked at all the hard evidence and we’ve calculated that workers would be on average £38 a week worse off in the long run. That’s enough to fill the petrol tank of a small car. If you don’t believe the experts then believe working people in companies like BMW, Toyota and Airbus. And that’s on top of the hit that our pay packets have already taken because of the bankers’ financial crash back in 2008. The governor of the bank of England says prices would go up too. That would be a double hit. We can’t afford to take the risk.

@Limer

Why does the TUC support many of their members' wages being kept low by a huge over-supply of cheap EU migrant labour?

Hi Limer. The simple answer is that we don't.

I know lots of people are worried about the impact of migration on pay and public services. But if we left the EU, the hit to our pay packets and the public purse would be a lot harder.

Don't blame migrants for low pay - blame those bad bosses who are trying to get away with not paying a decent wage. And blame the politicians for not building enough homes and cutting services where they are needed most. And (sorry about the rant!) how about blaming those rich men who don't pay their fair share of taxes?!

Hi Frances

I’m still slightly undecided. I’m leaning towards Remain but mainly just because I’m worried about a leap into the unknown.

I’m a teacher in London and have seen my pay go down in real terms and my working hours (and stress levels!) go up since I went back to work after maternity leave 5 years ago. I can’t say I’ve noticed the EU particularly protecting me from austerity or standing up for my rights in the workplace.

Can you tell me in simple terms why you think that someone like me should vote to Remain?

@blueeyes1970

Hi Frances, I am hugely concerned about the tone of the EU referendum debate - particularly the anti-immigrant sentiment coming from many Leavers. As a mother of a young child, I was particularly horrified by the murder of Jo Cox last week. What do you think, as a woman operating in what can often be a very confrontational male-dominated environment, can be done to bring more women in to the debate? After all, as mums, the consequences of this referendum will be felt most severely by our children. I personally am in favour of Remain - I believe that trade, cooperation, collaboration that underpins the EU have averted war and promoted learning - and should be supported not abandoned. But I also think it's important that undecided women voters who have genuine concerns on both sides can have their voices heard, questions answered, concerns addressed in a non-aggresive "safe" environment. What do you think can be done?

Hi blueeyes1970,
I feel really upset and worried too. We’ve all sent our deepest sympathies to Jo’s friends and family. I don’t want to say too much but I think I can say there’s something really bad about a politics that seeks to turn people – especially poor people - against each other. And I think the hate that some women of all political stripes seem to face in public life is deeply wrong. I think we need to stay strong and stand up to the bullies. And you’re right – the EU is important not just for jobs and rights. It’s kept the peace in Europe too. And, in or out, we’ll still face big challenges like climate change and terrorism. I know it sounds like a soundbite but I really do believe we’re stronger together.

@Chazmataz

Thanks for coming on. From a place of genuine ignorance, my question is - are you actually suggesting that there is a possibility that parliament will revoke our current workers' rights if we leave? Or that it will be harder to progress those rights in the future if we leave?

Hi Chazmataz. All our rights that are guaranteed in EU law would be up for grabs if we left the EU. And the Leave campaign have already said that if they win they’ll take a look at each right and decide which ones to keep, amend or scrap. Would you trust them?

We also wouldn’t be able to work within the EU to negotiate better rights for working people in the future, for example the EU is talking to employers and unions about improving rights for parents and carers and I don't want UK workers to miss out on that.

Hi Frances! If we left the EU, what impact do you think TTIP would still have in the UK? Is our government not one of the ones pushing for it? Seems like it makes no odds whether we're in or out on that front. Thank you!

Hello Frances

What can I say to progressive friends who have real problems with a federalist Europe - to the extent that they will probably vote leave, despite their constitutional leftyism?

They're not worried that we will be sucked into a federal Europe - they understand that we have protections in our relationship - but they have real problems with what they perceive to be a fundamentally anti-democratic structure, especially as the EU grows and the voice of the citizens of individual member countries becomes progressively weaker.

@tryingtosleep

Hi Frances

I’m still slightly undecided. I’m leaning towards Remain but mainly just because I’m worried about a leap into the unknown.

I’m a teacher in London and have seen my pay go down in real terms and my working hours (and stress levels!) go up since I went back to work after maternity leave 5 years ago. I can’t say I’ve noticed the EU particularly protecting me from austerity or standing up for my rights in the workplace.

Can you tell me in simple terms why you think that someone like me should vote to Remain?

Hi tryingtosleep,
I really hope you’ll vote to Remain on Thursday! I know that teachers’ pay and conditions have been really hard hit but austerity and by changes to the education system such as academisation and it may be hard to imagine that things could get any worse but I do believe that leaving the EU would make life even harder for the average worker. Without the EU we wouldn’t have paid time off for ante-natal appointments, parental leave, the right to take emergency leave when your child is sick, or equal rights for agency workers (a crucial right for supply teachers in particular). Priti Patel who is campaigning for Brexit has talked about halving EU social and employment legislation which frankly sends a chill down my spine. In recent years we’ve seen attempts to scrap our equality and employment legislation as part of the government’s “red tape challenge”. I certainly don’t have any confidence that our rights would be safe in the hands of a conservative government if we come out of the EU.

@Dollybluevanilla

Hi Frances,

I have a son who is in his early twenties and has special needs. He would love to find a job and contribute to our society. It's proving quite difficult for him to find any employment. Would staying in the EU help him in anyway?

Thanks

Hello Dollybluevanilla thanks for your question - I'm sorry to hear your son is having a tough time finding a job. Because we are in the EU, all employers have to abide by anti-discrimination laws, regardless of how big or small their companies are. That should protect disabled people against prejudice in recruitment, and employers should be making adjustments to get disabled people into work.

But the real issue here is are there going to be enough good jobs if we leave? I'm pretty fed up of politicians talking about our jobs record when too many of those jobs are zero hours or low paid. But what I am clear about is that there will be fewer good job opportunities if we leave - it's not just experts telling us that, it's union reps inside companies telling us that a Leave vote would mean less investment, fewer jobs and worse opportunities. All my good wishes to you and your son.

@BloodyKidsScreaming

Hi Frances! If we left the EU, what impact do you think TTIP would still have in the UK? Is our government not one of the ones pushing for it? Seems like it makes no odds whether we're in or out on that front. Thank you!

Hi BloodyKidsScreaming,
Unions across Europe have been fighting against TTIP (a trade deal between the EU and USA). But crashing our economy by leaving the EU isn’t the way to fight it. Because of union campaigning we have managed to secure some important concessions to enforce workers’ rights. But we still want to get rid of the secret court system and we still want an iron caste guarantee to protect the NHS and all our public services against privatisation. There’s still a long way to go but we need to be realistic about what the alternative would be if we came out of the EU. Let’s be honest, if we came out of the EU this government would be negotiating trade deals which are even worse for working people – and we probably wouldn’t even know about them, let alone have the chance to change them!

@IFellInLoveAtTheSeaside

If we vote to remain in the EU, do you think that will give us less of a say? We would have had the chance to leave but didn't so, therefore, would less be in our control.

Thanks IFellInLoveAtTheSeaside - what worries me is who would be in control if we leave! I think too many Westminster politicians like blaming Brussels for bad decisions they've taken, when actually they've been the cheerleaders (e.g. austerity and cuts!).

But there's lots of good stuff too, like workers' rights, tackling climate change and making people safer.

If we vote to leave we will have less say over the rules of the EU, and if we still want to trade with them we will still have to follow those rules without a chance to influence them.

I think we should stay and fight for a better Europe, of jobs, investment and chances for our children.

@BritBrit

Can Frances please explain why we need the EU for workers rights when the UK had these rights before we joined the EU e.g. holiday pay 1938, trade unions 19th century & UK maternity pay is both longer & better paid than EU law

Hi BritBrit,
This is a question I get asked a lot.
We did have some rights before we joined the EU. But now we’ve got lots of new and stronger rights from being in the EU - like parental leave, working time, equal treatment for part-time and temporary workers, protections for workers whose jobs are outsourced etc. The law covering holiday pay from 1938 only benefited about 1 million workers who were covered by wages councils (they set pay and conditions for very low-paid workers – Mainly women). But in 1993 the Tories scrapped the wages councils and with them those holiday rights. The right to paid holiday that we got from being in the EU applies to all workers and it benefited about 6 million – including 2 million – mainly women and young workers - who got paid holiday for the very first time.
Even where we already had rights, the EU provisions have often improved upon them, for example, on equal pay, health and safety, pregnancy discrimination, and disability discrimination.
You’re right we do have longer maternity leave here – that’s because EU law sets minimum standards – not the maximum – and we campaigned for more. In other words, the only way is up! But if we leave, employment rights could go a long way down. And if there’s a race to the bottom we’ll all end up worse off. I really hope you’ll stick with us on this!

Thank you for your questions today.

I’m off to prepare for the live debate on the telly this evening now, but remember this is a once in a lifetime vote and the outcome will be felt by our families, our children and our grandchildren.

There’s no going back on our decision. If there’s any doubt at all in your mind about what leaving the EU would mean then don’t risk it. Vote Remain.

Why is there nothing in the news about the issues in Calais yesterday?

I get fed up with people pretending our rights were gifted too! You’re right we fought long and hard for them across generations and across borders. But all of those rights would be up for grabs if we left the EU.

Priti Patel said she wants to get rid of half of employment protection, Boris Johnson said he wants to pull out of equal rights for part-timers and agency workers and Nigel Farage says he wants to get rid of the Working Time Directive - that protects our right to paid holidays. If we left they’d be in the driving seat and I don’t trust them with our rights

Those rights have al been signed into British law. I cannot imagine any Government getting a majority to remove those workers rights (Farage is not even an MP so has no clout whatsoever in Westminster).

Ad there will be no econmic collapse as the head of the German business said it would be ridiculous for them to introduce curbs.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36596060

And although Corbyn says we must have EU reform, EU President Juncker has said quite clearly today there will be no reforms

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-reform-uk-brexit-vote-live-remain-jean-claude-juncker-european-union-a7095601.html

I wil not be dictated to by the unelected politician - Juncker