Webchat with Ofsted’s lead inspector for special educational needs, Charlie Henry, on Wednesday at 12.30pm

[BojanaMumsnet]

Hello

We’re pleased to welcome HM Inspector Charlie Henry for a webchat on Wednesday 2 December, for an hour at 12.30pm.

HM Inspector Charlie Henry is a qualified teacher and has further advanced qualifications in the education of pupils with special educational needs and in educational psychology.

Charlie has worked in the field of special educational and disability for more than 30 years as teacher, special school manager and educational psychologist. Since joining Ofsted in 2004, Charlie has led many school inspections in mainstream primary schools, secondary schools, special schools, pupil referral units and specialist colleges. He has held responsibility for leading Ofsted’s inspection policy development for disabled children and those who have special educational needs.

Do join us on Wednesday at 12.30pm or post your question in here in advance if you can’t make it on the day.

UPDATE: Just to let you know that there is a consultation on Ofsted and the Care Quality Commission's proposals for inspecting how effectively local areas fulfil their responsibilities towards disabled children and young people and those with special educational needs.

Please click here for more information about the consultation.

Thanks

MNHQ

I know of a school with 21 statemented children (aged 11-16) and only 3 TAs. Provision mapping is smoke and mirrors. There is no money.

How do you judge that?
It's like weighing a starving person and asking why they aren't heavier when they are not able to access food.

For the person who asked about funding for g&t students, I do see your point. But there is almost nothing to bring those struggling to the threshold, and that will always be the priority.

Iguana - I completely believe what you say. And at school level, it's only going to get worse next year once the teacher NI & pension changes kick in.

But if 21 statemented children can only be supported by 3 TAs, it tells me that those kids' statements are almost certainly unlawful. The LA won't be specifying & quantifying provision in their statements - because if they do, then the LA will have to cough up your missing funding to pay for the provision those 21 kids need. And they don't want to do that.

This is the thing - there is money for kids like ours. There are countries that run successful space programmes on the same size budget that my LA top-slices off the DSG. The law, by and large, is on the side of the child.

But my LA has other plans for that money - and when it comes to kids with high-needs SEN, no-one in authority wants to compel my LA to cough it up. Head teachers generally don't want to fight them; too many other equities involved. Many SENCOs treat LA funding policy as holy writ, rather than the unlawful shambles it usually is. LA specialists? Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Some parents can and do fight - and over 80% of the time, we win, even when we go in unrepresented against a £400 per hour barrister working for the LA. Funny how the money comes pouring out of the council when it suits them.

It's like weighing a starving person and asking why they aren't heavier when they are not able to access food

This is what I hope will start to change with these Ofsted-led local area inspections. Looking less at blaming the starving people, and looking closer at the people back at camp who are keeping them on starvation rations and denying that you can see their ribs sticking out.

I'm a parent governor in a small primary school. We have an all inclusive policy to accepting children whatever their academic needs which I love. I wondered from a governor's point of view why SEN children are included in the whole school data and not judged on their own merits so that a school with more SEN children could be seen to not be as 'high achieving'as a school with fewer SEN children despite the huge benefits that inter grating SEN students in to mainstream schools brings?

tidy I have 2 boys with SN. One is gifted in certain areas, the other is severely learning disabled. The gifted boy is the one who currently has the most expensive "package" as the sum total of his needs is greater, at the moment.

ugger yes that's right - the borough will not state the specifics. Genuinely I don't think schools are to blame, because all anyone wants is for every child to have adequate support. This "notional" funding really bothers me though. A TA costs about £16,000-£20,000. A notional £6000 isn't even half of that (notionally or otherwise).

Hello Mr Henry

I won't be able to join the web chat as I will be teaching and the school we are currently 'helping' has HMI in today :/
My question is more a statement. Please can we do something more for teens with mental health problems: I have vast experience of this both as a parent and teacher. Too many are falling through the net and pushing families to the brink. I want to help, I have ideas...... We need to do something.

More of a comment than a question as I asked my question earlier.

In our experience (two children with AS and mental health issues) the education services are the ONLY service that has given my sons continued, practical help. CAMHS, Social Services etc etc have basically walked rapidly away.

So how can Ofsted help to ensure that the other services take their fair share of responsibility and action instead of leaving it up to schools who have neither the resources nor the expertise to deal with mental health issues. (Sorry it did turn into a question after all).

Hi, my questions are simply how do you propose to make local authorities abide by the current legislation when it is blatantly obvious that they are not doing so, and the same applies to schools really?

How are you going to ensure that statements/EHCPs are adhered to (assuming that there are no weasel words to hide behind)?

Have not read the thread, work and a currently stressful homelife due to LEA failures mean I am exhausted and still waiting for an EHCP that we should have had by the end of the last academic year.

The school i removed my son from didn't have to pay anything for his 1:1 which was met in full by the LA - so it was an attitude problem not a money problem.

The view of the teachers was that SEN kids would be babysat by a TA and the teacher would get on with teaching the rest of the class. By year 2 the teacher blatantly told me it was not her job to teach my child (we were only asking for some input into literacy and numeracy) as she would be too busy getting the other year 2 children ready for SATS.
My son is now in another mainstream school where the Head has a child with SEN herself - he is included with the class teaching with only occasional 1:1 'pullouts'. In areas where he can join in (maths, PE, music) he does and in areas where he is behind (anything language based) he has more individualised work.

That said I do think expectations of mainstream schools are unrealistic - they are not experts in every SEN and teachers cannot spend enough time with an individual child to really get to know them properly (although at least trying would have been a start in his old school). What has worked for us is having the 'specialist' element of his education delivered by an outside provider (ABA) in a mainstream setting.

I think there is much more of a role for bringing specialists into mainstream rather than perpetuating the bizarre idea that mainstream teachers can be experts in autism, mutism, dyslexia etc etc Its taken 5 years but we finally have a 'team' that works well of ABA supervisor / private autism specialist SLT / class teacher / ABA trained 1:1. Yes it is expensive but he is the only child I know with autism fulfilling his potential - I don't know a single other parent who feels this is the case (except the ones who home ed!) - it has to be a team approach even the best class teacher we had could not find enough time to give my son what he needed & that was only the academic work - his language, social, behaviour needs have always been met by ABA provider not school.

One teacher told me she had learnt more from our ABA provider in 1 term how to teach children with autism than in 15 years of working with LA outreach services.

we have to get away from the idea a 1 day course is enough - our ABA consultant has a professional masters level qualification and 1000s hours supervised practice, the supervisor has to have worked as a 1:1 therapist for a minimum of 5 years and done academic training & in house ongoing training & the 1:1 staff do several weeks of academic and practical training / shadowing. There is no comparison of expertise in our local LA mainstream or special schools where the 1 day course format is the norm.

With LAs a big issue is that not everything has a legal timescale that can be enforced
e.g. annual reviews around here - it often takes 10-11 months to get a decision / amended plan after a review meeting - just in time for the next review
In some cases this means parents are denied a right of appeal for that 10-11 months

• investigating why some LAs issue far fewer EHCPs % wise than others

Hello, I wonder if Ofsted have heard of ABA which I have found is an excellent and evidence-based way of teaching kids with autism (like my beautiful boy) a whole range of skills - from talking to toileting. It seems to me that amateurism and a sort of patronising 'ah bless' attitude reigns in our special school provisions, which is a pretty coverlet over low expectations.

Hello Mr Henry. You are brave coming here! I hope this will be useful for us, and you

This is all interesting.

My question is related to mainstream school, and I'm actually echoing the very good question inappropriatelyemployed asked earlier:

Why does Ofsted sideline rather than mainstream SEN issues? It frequently talks of 'SEN specialists'. If Ofsted expects all teachers to be 'teachers of SEN', why aren't all it's inspectors 'inspectors of SEN'?

Please could you explain how the inspection works? Does each Ofsted inspection of mainstream school include separate, or integral analysis of SEN provision? And how is provision analysed? Is the type and quality of support evaluated? Whether schools are providing what is specified in a Statement/EHCP? How does all this count towards the general Ofsted rating of a mainstream school?

The last inspection of my son's school (mainstream primary, he has ASD and a statement), gave it a Good rating. The report had barely a mention of SEN provision (despite it having a larger proportion than normal of SEN pupils of varying nature). This school has not implemented my son's statement for a year. He has not had an IEP for two years. I wonder whether such statistics are ever part of the Ofsted inspector's analysis of a school?

I would hope, frankly, that thorough SEN inspection would be an integral part of every single Ofsted inspector's remit. But I suppose that's like hoping that satisfactory training, awareness and understanding of SN is part of a class teacher's remit, isn't it

I wonder who is ultimately accountable in all this? The senco, deputy head and head of my commuter belt rural middle class school know they don't implement a legally binding statement, I complained to the governors who said it's the head job to run the school, I took it to the LA but it's been well over a month and still have no answers.
The law doesn't protect these kids. There's just lots of layers and box ticking. Who has the balls and weight to stop this? Ofsted at our school is all about getting back to outstanding level. You can't be outstanding with Sen kids bringing your grades down. Therefore when I as I parent dare to hold people to account I get told to leave. I don't think there is any real reason to abide by the law is there?

Having problems with a school in London my son used to attend. I have another child still there. My son since leaving the school has been diagnosed as autistic. It was never spotted in primary school as he is high performing quiet child, He was racially bullied by another child 'n' word. The school dealt minimum punishment to the bully and my son was abused again. Because my son is not outwardly emotional the school presumed he was ok. I've appealed to the head, governors and LEA all formally. In fact the one of the headteachers and 2 governors called the racial word used 'a rap term'. I have issued a formal complaint with OFSTED and the Secretary of State. My son was not protected whilst at school and I am concerned . This could happen to another child. It is a greater London school who should know better. My SEN son was not diagnosed whilst at this school or protected, appalling. Where do I go from here?

Hello

Ofsted very recently carried out a pilot inspection of my LA's implementation of the Children and Families Act 2014. The inspection looked at how agencies are working together to identify and meet the needs of children and young people with SEND. As a pilot inspection, there was no formal report. However, Ofsted identified a number of 'strengths', and commented on the 'strong statutory compliant pathway and EHC Plan'.

I find this absolutely flabbergasting and wonder whether they actually look at any of the final plans drawn up by the LA? Following on from GruntledOne's earlier question and comments, I have to conclude that the inspectors can't have received adequate training in SEN law, particularly with regard to the LA having a duty to specify and quantify educational provision, since the only parents I know who have such detailed provision contained within their children's plans are those who have been to SENDisT and fought for it.

I have to say that my child is very well supported in mainstream (with full time 1:1 and weekly therapies). However, at our first AR, the LA tried very hard to reduce this provision, and eventually one of the therapists admitted this was down to cost and not need, so it concerns me greatly that this culture was not identified by Ofsted in the pilot inspection, since the Children and Families act states that

'LA's must have regard to...the need to support the child and his or her parent, or the young person, in order to facilitate the development of the child or young person and to help him or her achieve the best possible educational and other outcomes. (Part 3, para 19 (d))

With the abolishment of the old NC levels, my child's school is now using a system whereby every child is assessed at the beginning of the school year as 'emerging' or 'developing'. My child is performing roughly about 18 months behind their peers, yet with this new assessment, will appear to be on the same 'level' (i.e 'emerging') with their much more able classmates. How is meaningful progress meant to be measured for children with SEN, so that adequate provision can remain in place? Also, could you tell me whether p-scales have also been abolished?

Many thanks

Test.

Hello - Thank you for the comments and questions that have already been posted. I went through these yesterday afternoon and have tried to answer the range of topics covered. I hope that you will understand that I cannot discuss individual children or individual schools. I also hope my replies will be helpful although I also understand that many of you will already know the things I am going to say.

A number of you have written about concerns you have about your children’s schools. Ofsted does not have powers to investigate complaints about special educational needs (SEN). This is because these complaints are covered by other statutory bodies. There are established ways by which parents can, and should, take these concerns forward, as explained in Ofsted’s guidance:

www.gov.uk/complain-about-school/sen-complaints

Ofsted cannot consider a complaint when there are other statutory (legal) ways of pursuing it. We will consider complaints where the issues raised indicate there might be a more general issue of concern.

Charlie

@insan1tyscartching

Skullyton I think emergency funding differs from LA to LA tbh. I know in our LA a school could get emergency funding within a week if need was demonstrated. But then again our LA funds statements/ehcp entirely separate to a schools SEN budget so that might account for it.

Hello

Thanks for your question. I can see there are several questions about funding. If I can take these together, you'll appreciate that I cannot make any general comment on this topic as there are too many local variations, however you should be able to find the information you need in the local area’s published Local offer.

There should be link to Local offer from your child’s school’s website. If you have not already looked at this information then I encourage you to do so.

The Code of practice sets out what should be included in the Local offer, including information about the arrangements the local authority has for funding children and young people with SEN, including any agreements about how providers will use any budget that has been delegated to them.

Here’s the link to the Code: www.gov.uk/government/publications/send-code-of-practice-0-to-25

Charlie

@GnomePhone

Why are schools rewarded by Ofsted for getting rid of 'difficult' pupils with SEN? I mean the pupils who:

• bring attendance records down through absence due to mental and physical illness

• bring academic and behaviour levels down through lack of adequate SEN identification and classroom support

• need extra staffing and financial resources which the schools don't have?

Does Ofsted keep a measure of how many children have left a particular school and explore the reasons why?

Hello - I recognise that attendance relating to pupils who have health and medical needs that mean they can be absent from school is being raised as a concern, in terms of the school's performance.

Inspectors do not make a judgement simply by looking at the overall attendance level for the school. They will ask in detail about attendance where it is below the national average, including if the reasons are to do with pupils’ health needs.

Inspectors will not make any negative comments where this is the reason for pupils’ absence. They will also look carefully at the attendance of pupils who have special educational needs, compared with other pupils.

When looking at information about exclusions from a school then inspectors will examine if there are differences between different groups of pupils, including those who are disabled and those who have special educational needs.

I hope that's a helpful response.

Charlie

What about illegal exclusions where there is no paperwork?

@strawberryandaflake

Could I ask:

Do you feel that the provision for SEN caters more for those with learning restrictions than those that are more able? Why is this so?

What does he think the answer is so that gifted students can reach full potential rather than being held back by lack of staffing and over provision for weaker students?

Hello - thanks for raising these questions.

Legislation defines pupils who have special educational needs in terms of those who have greater difficulty in learning compared with others of their age. These pupils are specifically referred to throughout the inspection framework as a group that inspectors will look at, and about whose achievement they will report on.

The most able pupils are also specifically identified in inspection guidance.

The guidance says that ‘Inspectors will pay particular attention to whether the most able pupils are making progress towards attaining the highest standards and achieving as well as they should. They will also consider whether the most able pupils are receiving the support they need to reach their full potential.’

Charlie

@PhilPhilConnors

Similar to PolterGoose's question. My dc's secondary school is rated outstanding, yet they have a dreadful reputation with SN and will move the child on rather than support and help. Do OFSTED inspections not take this into account?

Hello,

I am sorry to read about your experience.

I have mentioned above the guidance for parents who have complaints about a school. Here is the link to give you information about how to complain about an inspection:

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/ofsted/about/complaints-procedure

I can assure you that all complaints about inspections are dealt with very thoroughly, and inspectors take into account the lessons learned.

Charlie

@Rotunda

Hello Mr Henry and thank you for giving us parent carers the opportunity to chat with you.

It's a rare opportunity, so forgive me for going on a bit with all the questioning!

My questions/comments would be:

When searching for an appropriate school, parents rely on the accuracy and relevance of the Ofsted report.

1). Should the report specify whether the SEN children / cases included in the report were for children educated in the mainstream or in separate annexed "learning support centres" and to what extent?

2). Should the report also spell out how many children with SEN have moved out of the school without completing the education through to the maximum age limit of the setting since the last inspection?

3). Given the rising numbers of children in mainstream schools with Autism, should the report specify the percentages of staff currently trained in autism and to what level?

4). How many children with SEN in the school were given a disapplication from the national curriculum?

5). With reference to the Equality Act and the school's duty to promote equality and inclusion, how do Ofsted propose to evidence that a school has done more than just hold one class/school assembly and actually bought into this social, legal and moral obligation?

6). Parent View and parent/carer questionnaires issued by Ofsted do not, as yet, differentiate between parents with children with SEN and those without. Clearly the experiences can be hugely different because of the differing needs. Would it not be more helpful, both for parents and in analysis, to differentiate these?

Without these sort of specifics, what help is an Ofsted report to parents and carers searching for a school which would be the best for their particular child.

Hello Rotuda,

Thanks for your kind words. Thank you too for the suggestion that this could include asking parents to identify if their child is disabled or have special educational needs. I will pass this suggestion forwards.

For those of you who don’t know about Parent View, it’s Ofsted’s online survey of parents’ views about their children’s school.

Here is the link: parentview.ofsted.gov.uk/parent-view-results

Charlie

[quote uggerthebugger]I can't make it for the webchat (no access to MN at work) - anyway, if people are interested, here's a couple of useful things that might be worth reading before Charlie Henry arrives:

Many of us on here have to fight like honey badgers with work with our local authorities & NHS CCGs to get our kids the support they need.

Next year, Ofsted & the CQC are going to start inspecting these organisations, to see how well they are doing with putting the new SEN legislation into practice.

They won't be inspecting schools directly, but they will be inspecting LAs and NHS organisations, and they'll be visit schools to see how the SEN reforms are working in practice at ground level....

Charlie Henry is one of the people who are putting together the framework for these inspections. He's looking for people's views on their proposed framework - if you can, it's well worth putting your views across.

You can find the consultation document here - www.gov.uk/government/consultations/local-area-send-consultation

Also, this is worth reading, it's what Charlie Henry had to say about how he sees the new inspection process working www.communitycare.co.uk/2015/10/22/ofsted-cqc-will-inspect-special-educational-needs-provision/[/quote]

Hello,

Thanks for mentioning this new development. The link provided will take you to the consultation that we are currently running with the Care Quality Commission (CQC) and we really do want to hear your views. So far we have received 954 replies, with close on a third of these coming from young people.

This number doesn’t surprise me at all as I know how very important special educational needs are to so many people. Please take the time to read what we are planning to do – and give us your views. The plans so far have been heavily influenced by discussions I’ve had with Parent Carer Forum representatives, but nothing is finalised yet.

One of the challenges we have for these inspections is how to get as broad a view as possible of what a local area's parents think about how well their children’s needs are identified and met. Likewise we need to know the views of young people. Do you have any ideas about how we can do this, beyond the ones we have included in the consultation paper? Please let me know if you want me to talk more about this today.

The plan is to include a local authority officer as part of the inspection team. These inspectors will be specially recruited and trained, and they will not be a person from the local area being inspected or where they have any connections – just like when we have school leaders involved in school inspections. I can assure you these inspectors will not lower the expectations of the inspection team.

Charlie