Webchat with Jennifer Perry from Digital-Trust on digital abuse, Wednesday 16 September at 12pm

[BojanaMumsnet]

Hello

We're pleased to announce a webchat with Jennifer Perry, the Director and CEO of Digital-Trust, following our webchat with Graham Cluley on computer security. We invited Jennifer after a few Mumsnetters asked for a webchat with her because of her particular expertise in advising on digital security issues in abusive relationships. Digital-Trust provides technical expertise to victims of digital abuse and organisations working with them. One example of the advice they provide is recognising the warning signs of a stalker.

Jennifer is a leading expert on digital abuse, cyber stalking and harassment. She has been campaigning for the last ten years on e-victim issues. She has over 20 years in the tech industry.

Jennifer produced the first UK-USA guidelines on cyber risks in domestic violence in 2009, and is the author of these guidelines on stalking and harassment. This guide has been adopted by ACPO and the UK police, stalking charities and domestic violence groups. She has trained hundreds of police officers, social workers, DV professionals and probation officers in issues related to stalking and digital abuse.

Please join us on Wednesday 16 September at 12pm for an hour-long webchat. If you can't make it, do leave a question on this thread in advance. As ever, please remember our webchat guidelines.

Thanks
MNHQ

@DuchessofGrumpyCat

Hi Jennifer,

Can you tell us a bit about your background and how you came to be involved with the Digital Trust?

Thank you.

My background is hi-tech marketing first in the computer industry and then in 1994 I launched UK Online so I've been around the industry a long time. I guess sometimes things happen in your life and you think what can I do to help others. So, I looked at my skills and decided to start help victims of digital crime. I started in 2007 a bit before it was widely recognised. It has been a struggle to the criminal justice system to take it seriously but I can say that there has been a big change in the last 2 years. It will improve but digital crime is always moving fast so it is important that we keep on top of it to protect ourselves.

Thanks for that, Jennifer. (Sorry if this is straying into a 3rd point, MNHQ.) I'll confess that most of the situations I've been involved with might not be classified as DV because there is no relationship between the man and woman (which is what it generally is) but might be more correctly classed eg as 'Sexual Violence' where a person preys on another person of an opposite gender - almost because, particularly with digital capabilities, they can, it seems. Do you see ay distinction between the two forms of abuse?

Is it easy to have a second set of social media profiles?

I have read about a secret app that hides other apps? I reckon all the Ashley Madison types had that sort of thing but hadn't thought it might be useful for "good"
Thanks

@cozietoesie

Thanks so much for the webchat, MNHQ and Jennifer. I haven't read all the guidelines yet, I'm afraid.

I have some particular concerns (following indirect experience - I wasn't myself the victim) with helping young people eg young teenagers who might think that they are 'in control' of their digital lives but are really wide open to manipulation and abuse mainly because they have limited life experience.

How do you go about helping them without limiting them or possibly destroying what trust they have in you? (I'm sorry if that question is very wide.)

Education is the key. And be willing to talk about some uncomfortable subjects. That sexting is illegal, if you distribute pictures of a sexual nature of someone under the age of 18 you could be charged with distribution of child abuse images. That they should not give out accurate details of the date of birth etc because of identity theft - goes for mom too! I have two birthdays my Internet birthday I'm younger!

Talk about privacy settings and why do people need to know where you are because you can always tell your mates by txt you don't need to tell that dodgy bloke that lives down the street who is watching your Instagram messages!

The best thing is newspaper articles that highlight when things go wrong so they understand that what they do online can have real life consequences.

@DontTellTheBride

Hi Jennifer,

I'm concerned about someone in my life at the moment - I haven't yet broached my worries with her, but I wondered whether you could give us your best advice for 1) women protecting themselves from partners online and 2) how/where to seek help if they do find themselves in a situation where they're being attacked/violated online?

Sorry for being vague - but I'd appreciate your advice before I talk to her.
Thanks

This is a great question. Women whose partners or expartners are jealous or controlling can find that their mobile is their own worst enemy when it comes to their safety.

Again look at our guides but a lot of abusers aren't putting soemthing on the phone but accessing the person's mobile account. If you can access their mobile account by the internet you can see where the phone is, if the pictures and text are set to automatically back up you can read all that information to so you need to make sure that you set-up two step authentication on your mobile and other key accounts. As well as turning off location services etc. See our guide it has step by step instructions. www.digital-trust.org/victims-advice/#/mobile-advice/

What would be your advice to parents of kids who are starting to use computers a lot? My son is 9 and uses a laptop a lot. I have installed web blocking software (K9) and parental controls to limit his time. Is there anything else you would recommend I do? Many thanks!

@ScotthasSFB

Hi Jennifer - currently being stalked by the ex here on Mumsnet and generally via the Internet! He's not hiding it - emaling me links to threads I've written - I've changed my name to put him off the scent so I will be reading this with interest later... Oasis (womans refuge) gave me really good advice - but over the years I became a bit lax...I am so tempted to 'out' him by posting the emails and messages he has sent me but I know it's not worth it. Would feel good though as most of it is just vitriolic, spiteful diatribe...

Stalkers can be very persistent not always scary but annoying in that you want them out of your life and they insist on staying in even it is just to say I know you are mumsnet and I'm watching you.

First, block his email, block his phone number, block him on all social media and get your close friends and family to do the same.

Secure your accounts by using a good password - I recommend a password manager. Also if they offer it set-up 2 step authentication. Especially on email accounts. it will notify you if someone tries to access your account.

Try using a separate email account for social media. if you use Gmail then switch to hotmail etc.

Use instant or direct messaging for sensitive discussions.

If you are worried about his behaviour then log everything for evidence. Go to our website there is a lot of useful tips.

Scott, do you think somehow he has access to your laptop, so that even if you're changing your name he'll know that?

@JenniferPerry

[quote DontTellTheBride] Hi Jennifer,

I'm concerned about someone in my life at the moment - I haven't yet broached my worries with her, but I wondered whether you could give us your best advice for 1) women protecting themselves from partners online and 2) how/where to seek help if they do find themselves in a situation where they're being attacked/violated online?

Sorry for being vague - but I'd appreciate your advice before I talk to her.
Thanks

This is a great question. Women whose partners or expartners are jealous or controlling can find that their mobile is their own worst enemy when it comes to their safety.

Again look at our guides but a lot of abusers aren't putting soemthing on the phone but accessing the person's mobile account. If you can access their mobile account by the internet you can see where the phone is, if the pictures and text are set to automatically back up you can read all that information to so you need to make sure that you set-up two step authentication on your mobile and other key accounts. As well as turning off location services etc. See our guide it has step by step instructions. www.digital-trust.org/victims-advice/#/mobile-advice/[/quote]

For further advice you can go to Women's Aid Helpline 0808 2000 247 , Stalking advice the National Stalking Helpline 0808 802 0300 Digital-Trust doesn't have a helpline. If you are scared or worried you should always call the police. You can arrange to talk to them without making a formal complaint and they can advice you.

@ImperialBlether

Hi Jennifer. Thanks so much for coming on here.

On the Relationships board you see many examples of men (usually) who know what their partners are doing. So they'll repeat parts of emails etc. I've always assumed the men have a keylogger on their partner's laptop. Is this legal if you could prove you bought the device? What should a person do if they suspect someone has a keylogger on their laptop?

Regarding other devices, sometimes men seem to know what's been written on phones and tablets. Apart from guessing/seeing the password and checking personally, are there other ways of doing this? How can you find out if that's what's going on?

On the other hand, if a woman was thinking of engaging in some of this herself, can you tell us what is legal, what would stand up in court etc?

Also CCTV - it's legal to have it in your own home, isn't it? Do all members of the household/people entering the house have to be told?

This is a good question. There is a huge difference between something being illegal and that law being enforced. We have the Computer Misuse Act but we only get 1 prosecution on average a month.

Yes, putting a key logger on someone's laptop breaks many laws. Computer Misuse Act, Human Rights, Harassment/Stalking and Communications Act.

The Digital-Trust is currently campaigning on a new Bill we've drafted the Digital-Abuse Consolidation Bill. We have identified 32 pieces of legislation that is out of date in response to technology. We want those updated.

Also, placing trackers on cars breaks several of the same laws. What can you do legally? I recommend using a private investigator. We work with one that specialises in stalking to help gather evidence and deal with the threat. This is often more effective than using the police or a lawyer.

I wish I had started recommending investigators earlier, because often the police can't help victims because of the difficulty in gathering digital evidence.

@caramelshortbreadnowplease

Hello

Are there things that internet service providers or big websites (like Facebook) could be doing to protect vulnerable users, or does it really all come down to us protecting ourselves? How much responsibility do you think website administrators and owners should take for abuse that takes place on their sites or platforms, especially if their site is enormous? (Thinking a bit about the problems Twitter has had with personal abuse, and accusations from some of its users that it's not doing enough)

Recently a very large organisation said that their first priority was to shareholders another wouldn't help me develop new advice because "it didn't support their brand position" Internet providers would rather deal with the negative publicity than the issue because dealing with abuse costs money.

But the question is if they can use sophisticated means to identify and target ads, they can use the same technology to identify abuse and victims of troll attacks etc. But they won't. Even negative traffic produces hit rates and ad revenue.

I know I'm probably far too cynical but in the last few years what big steps have they taken to protect us - what steps have they taken to expose more of our data?

Thanks for answering the question. I suppose the problem for many women is they're in financially controlling relationships so can't pay for PIs.

@CuriousJones

Is there best practices for finding out whether people you meet online are real or are we all doomed to be Catfish'd ??

I love the show Catfishing it gives you a lot of helpful tips. How do you know if the person is spoofing an account. Look at how many people they are connected to most people its at least 80-100. Are other people posting on their account. Are the ones posting all one sex?

Use Google Image search just Google image search. Put in the photo into the box and it will scan to see if it appears somewhere else on the Internet. Do they sound to glamours or accomplished?

Do they mirror you in other words agree with everything you say so it seems like you are "soul mates". All of these are warning signs.

They won't skype, they won't give you a landline number or home address even though you have become really close online.

These are all warning signs that the person is not who they say they are or they are pretending to be something else.

Did you know that over 30% of people on online dating sites are married! There are also sexual and financial predators so if you are online dating be extra careful and take things slow..

@ImperialBlether

Thanks for answering the question. I suppose the problem for many women is they're in financially controlling relationships so can't pay for PIs.

This is true many people can't afford to get this type of help. In that case they have to help the police build a case by gathering good evidence, logging it and also getting other people to make witness statements. It really depends on which police force and often which police officer you are dealing with, if you don't get the help you need and you are scared then listen to your instincts and go back and ask for another officer and ask that they carry out a risk assessment.

Yes, that's absolutely right and building evidence is something we need to encourage on MN.

Could you just tell us what someone should do if they suspect they have a keylogger on their laptop? What could they look out for or do they need professional help? Could the average small computer repairer help?

@DrDreReturns

What would be your advice to parents of kids who are starting to use computers a lot? My son is 9 and uses a laptop a lot. I have installed web blocking software (K9) and parental controls to limit his time. Is there anything else you would recommend I do? Many thanks!

Find fun things to do with your son online so you aren't just discussing the bad but having fun with the good too. Keep up to date by signing up to newsletters and read advice from the NSPCC.

The more confident you are and the more things you can show him then he will get use to coming to you for help. That is a very good thing!

@ImperialBlether

Yes, that's absolutely right and building evidence is something we need to encourage on MN.

Could you just tell us what someone should do if they suspect they have a keylogger on their laptop? What could they look out for or do they need professional help? Could the average small computer repairer help?

A good anti-spyware software will detect it so Malware bytes or Kapersky anti-virus. Run the spyware and keep it running.

Don't click on attachments unless you are expecting them - that is how spyware is loaded onto a computer. The abuser sends a file - picture, word document doesn't matter what the file is. The victim opens the file and in the background the software loads. One clue is that the attached file is really big MB instead of KBs.

Also, if you have kids clean their computers and secure their accounts because if they can't access your computer they may try to access the kids.

@whiskeytangofoxtrot

Is it easy to have a second set of social media profiles?

I have read about a secret app that hides other apps? I reckon all the Ashley Madison types had that sort of thing but hadn't thought it might be useful for "good"
Thanks

Using multiple profiles/emails is a good idea because the social media companies bring in all the data under one email so if you use different emails they don't connect your accounts as easily. We are starting to see some products that are designed to keep your data in your control and only let websites have bits of info. I haven't tested these yet so don't want to recommend it but that is the type of solution that will eventually come because people are rightly worried about how much data is out there.

I keep my professional social media very separate from my personal. Sometimes it just best not to have a lot of people sharing stories about you - like my mom telling people childhood stories - YIKES!

I enjoyed my time here at Mumsnet. I hope you found it helpful. Continue using technology it's fun and amazing - and of course it allows you to enjoy this wonderful sense of community here.

But if you start to have worries or problems don't wait take action the sooner you do something the less likely it will escalate. Be safe and I hope to be able to come back again.

Thanks so much for coming on. It's been really informative and useful.

Really appreciate the reply Jennifer, thank you.

ImperialBlether - he doesn't have access to my laptop, just an insatiable desire to somehow 'get revenge'...which he has informed our 14 year old twin sons of on countless occasions...
yesterday he sent me a message saying war was coming my way...

I had a non-molestation order and occupation order awarded but this has now ceased. I am not replying to any messages in the (sad) hope they will mount up and I will get another order set.

Ho hum!

You need to get another order set up, showing that message (complete idiot, isn't he?) as evidence. I wouldn't bother waiting for more unless that's what the police advise.

What do your 14 year olds say? The best thing surely would be that if he tries to take revenge, they will no longer see him.

PMd you, Scott.