Join us for a webchat with Ofsted Early Years Director Nick Hudson – 1.00 - 2.00pm, Monday 10 November 2014

[KateHMumsnet]

You may remember that back in September, we hosted a webchat with Ofsted's Chief Inspector of Education Sir Michael Wilshaw. We're pleased to host a second webchat with Ofsted this year with Early Years Director Nick Hudson, to answer your questions about nurseries and early education for children aged 0 - 5.

Nick joined Oldham Council in 2001 as excellence in cities director before becoming service director for the children, young people and families directorate.
He went on to become corporate director of children’s and adults services at Wigan Council Hudson was appointed regional director of Ofsted’s North East, Yorkshire and Humber Region in 2013, before taking on the additional role of national director for early education in January this year. He has three school-aged children.

Post your questions for Nick below, and be sure to join us live on the 10th, from 1.00pm.

@IncaAztec

I'm currently looking around early years settings for my daughter. I'm a veteran of this due to several house moves. Every setting I visited had achieved an Ofsted 'Good'. My concern is around this 'Good' - there seemed to be a vast difference in 'Good' in my eyes. Are your criteria stringent enough at 'Good' level or would 'Good' benefit from further classification eg Good1, Good2. This would help parents/carers have more faith in settings and make a more informed choice. Thanks Inca

Hi IncaAztec,

Inspection judgements not being consistent is rightly a concern, we are always trying to improve on this. You may know that we recently launched a consultation about the future of education inspection. One of the central principles is improving consistency and the comparability of inspection judgements. If you haven't already done so, you can respond to the consultation which is online at www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/better-inspection-for-all-consultation-proposals-for-new-framework-for-inspection-of-schools-further

Obtaining a high response rate from users and providers of early years is really important to us.

@kiddiewink45

I would like to know how you plan to help all children on the Autistic Spectrum and why is it so difficult to get an EHC plan to get extra help and support in school especially when my son is on the lower end of the Spectrum. He has complex educational needs and needs support in school so that he has some sort of future after education.

I am also a childminder and would like to know why Ofsted are so down on childminders. I have worked hard over the years and have gained Outstanding, but Ofsted give mixed messages with regard to inspection gradings and what is expected of us. Advice and information is also always different between inspectors and support staff. I have phoned and asked a question and then a fellow minder has rung and asked the same question and being given completely differnt advice. WHY!!!

Hi Kiddiewink45,

Whilst Ofsted will inspect how a provider is catering for children on the autistic spectrum, you will know that we are not responsible for establishing the level of appropriate support for individual children. I am sorry I cannot be more helpful.

We are not down on childminders. I know that there are many excellent childminders, indeed I have used them myself in the past. What we are trying to emphasise is the importance of high quality childcare for young children, especially those who live in our most deprived communities. The evidence shows that nurseries are particularly good at catering for children in these neighbourhoods. That doesn't mean that childminders cannot provide excellent experiences for these children.

After numerous problems with Ofsted after a malicious complaint, which I appealed my suspension and went to tribunal etc and proved my innocence and recieved a unanimous decision in my favour, I have out in numerous complaints about how the investigation was carried out and now got to the stage of requesting an internal review, I recently had an inspection 9th cot, by two inspectors who failed to tell me they were from the same department that my complaints were in about, they also have down graded me by two from outstanding to requiring improvements yet what they are trying to do it on I have given the correct responses to the questions and have found evidence/ sought evidence to prove it, not only that but since when has playing with leaves been such a bad thing, it's amazing that i was given outstanding for it in my last ispection but now it's putting the child's health at risk.? After my original complaints the response to complaintsh I got dodged every item on my list. I have now sought a solicitor to act as it is clear victimisation. Why are Ofsted allowed to act like this???

Also why are cie officers allowed to use bullying tactics, to try and get childminders to resigned " you do know you can resign and nothing will happen however if you continue to fight us, you will lose and be disqualified from working with children forever!" I continued fighting as I knew I was innocent.

Also at inspection I was told there was no new eyes in sept 2014 we are supposed to work from September 12, yet when I rang Ofsted the following morning to clarify to was told sept 2014! Also told at inspection that if I complained about my judgements the report wasn't allowed to be published until complaint dealt with, then surprise surprise it's on the website, with a lot of inaccuracies that paint me in a very bad light, ie rubbing a child's face with a leaf when actually it was stroked, rubbing a very violent word when actually it wasn't the case at all. And many other bits.

I can't believe officers are allowed to act like this, and because Ofsted is un regulated allowed to get away with it. I have worked with children in the eyes for over 16yrs and have never been so disgusted in all my life. Talk about closing ranks!

Any way if you would like to discuss thoroughly, which I anticipate you probably won't my mobile number is [post edited by MNHQ]

Also why is one inspector allowed to give outstanding judgements, if no paperwork is seen yet another won't there's absolutely no consistency in judgements what so ever it's just the luck of the draw which is so so wrong !

@grumpalumpgrumped

If the school inspections are being brought back in house to Ofsted to ensure quality, why not early years?

Hi,

It might have been desirable for Ofsted to bring early years inspection in house. However, we had to ensure that any changes we were going to implement would be delivered effectively. Including early years would have made the process unmanageable especially as there are many changes we wished to introduce to early years inspections.

" The evidence shows that nurseries are particularly good at catering for children in these neighbourhoods"
could you clarify what this evidence is and what evidence there is that nurseries provide better care in deprived areas than childminders.
I agree with the pp that childminders are seen as inferior to nurseries in terms of delivering the EYFS when in reality we provide a much more child centred and individual service which a nursery could never hope to match.
Why are childminders not given the option to opt out of the EYFS and provide a home from home environment which many parents of babies want without all the attendant paperwork/ assessments/ observations etc.

@Podgenyx6

After numerous problems with Ofsted after a malicious complaint, which I appealed my suspension and went to tribunal etc and proved my innocence and recieved a unanimous decision in my favour, I have out in numerous complaints about how the investigation was carried out and now got to the stage of requesting an internal review, I recently had an inspection 9th cot, by two inspectors who failed to tell me they were from the same department that my complaints were in about, they also have down graded me by two from outstanding to requiring improvements yet what they are trying to do it on I have given the correct responses to the questions and have found evidence/ sought evidence to prove it, not only that but since when has playing with leaves been such a bad thing, it's amazing that i was given outstanding for it in my last ispection but now it's putting the child's health at risk.? After my original complaints the response to complaintsh I got dodged every item on my list. I have now sought a solicitor to act as it is clear victimisation. Why are Ofsted allowed to act like this???

Also why are cie officers allowed to use bullying tactics, to try and get childminders to resigned " you do know you can resign and nothing will happen however if you continue to fight us, you will lose and be disqualified from working with children forever!" I continued fighting as I knew I was innocent.

Also at inspection I was told there was no new eyes in sept 2014 we are supposed to work from September 12, yet when I rang Ofsted the following morning to clarify to was told sept 2014! Also told at inspection that if I complained about my judgements the report wasn't allowed to be published until complaint dealt with, then surprise surprise it's on the website, with a lot of inaccuracies that paint me in a very bad light, ie rubbing a child's face with a leaf when actually it was stroked, rubbing a very violent word when actually it wasn't the case at all. And many other bits.

I can't believe officers are allowed to act like this, and because Ofsted is un regulated allowed to get away with it. I have worked with children in the eyes for over 16yrs and have never been so disgusted in all my life. Talk about closing ranks!

Hello Katrina,

I will ensure that you are contacted directly about the issue which you have raised.

I would like to see some positive comments applied in the press with regards to childminders. It seems we are mixed up with many forms of childcare including 'relatives', and the public are not shown how flexible and hard working OFSTED registered minders really are.

We are also often much cheaper than other childcare providers and can provide funded places thankfully.

School Nurseries are NOT the answer for tailored care for young children. There are much higher ratios to child, how on earth do you think that Nursery workers can follow children's individual interests? We should be helping our young people to be unique individuals so that we have a wonderful blend of future adults, to provide for our country.

@teacherlikesapples

There has been plenty of discussion with previous Education ministers and comments from Michael Wilshaw about what nurseries should look like in terms of the balance of teacher led and child led activities.

Recently there has been a move towards advocating more structured play for young children (even though genuine child led play has the most evidence to support it)- where do you stand on the issue?

More than 40 years of research tells us that genuine child led play, where children get to make choices and independently problem solve and explore their surroundings, is best for young children's learning and development.

Especially when they are supported by adults who understand how they learn- so they can set up an enabling environment, and extend and challenge their thinking by appropriate interactions and further planning.

It would be helpful to know where OFSTED's focus is going to be on this issue, as there has been very mixed messages over the last few years (i.e research & training says one thing, OFSTED & Education ministers saying the opposite)

Hi teacherlikesapples,

I believe there is agreement that children learn and develop through play. Ofsted is concerned with outcomes, not with how providers deliver sessions for children. The balance between independent problem solving and learning supported by adults is for the provider to decide. We do not have a preferred style.

Thank you mr Hudson, I do hope that it happens as going through Ofsteds complaint procedure it's all getting dodged and nothing's happening

@JugglingFromHereToThere

I work with early years, currently in a pre-school in a new project with 2 year olds, for a large family charity. I've worked as a nursery teacher in London in the past (and have QTS)

Can you tell us about your experience and qualifications specifically relating to the early years sector?

I find that some senior management (eg in schools, where I've worked both as a teacher and recently TA in reception class) and inspectors within Ofsted do not seem to have a sufficiently thorough understanding of how young children learn primarily through (supported) play.

Can you reassure me of your understanding and commitment to these important principles of learning in early childhood?

I'm pleased to say that the writers of the EYFS seem to have a good appreciation of these principles, so am happy to work within that framework - particularly like the new threads of "play and exploring", "active learning" and "creative and critical thinking"

Hi,

I hope my response to teacherlikesapples reassures you of my commitment to the principles of learning in early childhood.

This is my unanswered question from the last Ofsted webchat.

I am a trustee for a parent-managed small community pre-school. Even before your unfortunate comments about childminders I felt that Ofsted had a very narrow rigid view of what is acceptable education for three and four year old children.

It is becoming clear that Ofsted don’t want small, term-based, childcare settings that run independently from schools unless they are privately run nurseries. This becomes apparent with each new policy and change. The funding structure for early years is becoming obtrusive.

Last year funding for the 15 free hours was cut by 30p an hour per child. This is equivalent to £171 a year per child. This is a significant amount to lose. At the same time support for staff training was cut whilst training requirements were raised.

One example of the obtrusive funding structure is that we cannot receive a higher rate per child as we do not offer enough different start and close times. However we do not need to offer different start and close times! Parents are happy with the sessions we offer. Our village does not need more 8am-6pm childcare. We should not be penalised for the simple three hour sessions we offer, we should be applauded for not charging stealth top-up fees by forcing parents to pay for extended hours, for lunch time, etc. I think, I may be wrong, not offering so many start/close times means we can't be graded outstanding.

We cannot offer the resources of a private nursery or a school affiliated nursery, for example we have less IT equipment. But we do have good play resources, and brilliant staff (who we pay as high a rate as we possibly can). There is a clear demand by local parents who actually don't want us to have lots of laptops. They do want a really close knit community where our children are happy and learning, and parents are involved. They do appreciate our simple hours and the fact that there is no restriction on how their child's funded hours are used.

Can you comment on why Ofsted are so arrogant as to disregard this parent choice for their pre-school children by policy wonking it into the ground?

@Lara2

Can you guarantee that every inspection team has an EY specialist when inspecting infant and primary schools? As EY is a separate key stage, can it also be stipulated that a certain proportion of the inspection time is actually spent in EY to make a sound judgement? Having just had an inspection where there was no EY specialist and the inspectors spent probably a total of around 50 minutes of a two day inspection in EY, I feel this is unacceptable. How can you judge something you have no expertise in and haven't spent long enough to make a sound judgement?

Hi Lara2,

It is our aim that infant and primary school inspection teams have relevant EY experience. We are presently monitoring closely the early experiences of grading early years as part of a primary school's inspection. This will allow us to assess whether the composition of inspection teams is influencing how early years is being inspected. On a separate note, we need more early years practitioners to become inspectors. If you are interested, details can be found atwww.ofsted.gov.uk/about-us/working-for-ofsted/how-become-inspector/why-not-spend-some-time-working-us

@squirrelnutmeg

How can it be justified that a setting can continue to be graded inadequate over the period of a year, after several visits, but still be operating? Do you have any plans to time limit a settings opportunity to improve from grade 4 before it is shut down?

Hi squirrelnutmeg,

We have clear procedures governing the regularity of monitoring and reinspecting inadequate settings. We would hope that the majority of inadequate settings would make progress and become at least good. We have to get the balance right between giving providers an opportunity to demonstrate they can improve and the point at which we recommend withdrawing registration.

@Charlilou490

I also want to know why settings are going 5+ years between inspections. Also, why is the level of paperwork increasing? Surely this has a huge impact on the time staff can spend with the children!!

Hi,

I appreciate that some settings are going a long time between inspections. However, it is important that we prioritise inspecting those providers that are not yet providing high quality care and education.

Thanks very much for all your questions. I hope the session has been useful.

Nick

No reply to either of the questions regarding EYFS 3.30 'exceptions' and 'continuity of care' :-( Wish this session could have been longer with an opportunity for genuine debate. Thank you for doing what you could in a short hour

Aw, I didnt get my question answered again. I get it, Ofsted really hate parent run pre-schools

Nice dodging of the paperwork question. Just think though, if Ofsted is five years behind on inspections and drowning in paperwork maybe it will have more respect for all the settings that manage the paperwork demands whilst caring for and educating pre-schoolers

Could we have someone on from DoE with regard to EYFS as it is them who made that not Ofsted? Maybe they could explain ratios.

Was not entirely reassured by Nick's answer to my question nor to the answer he referred me to that he really embraces learning through play in the early years.

His comments that Ofsted are "concerned with outcomes, not with how providers deliver sessions"
& "We do not have a preferred style"
will not be thoroughly reassuring to many practitioners I suggest

Surprise surprise didn't get an answer and got the impression he wasn't so concerned about quality of early years care for children with Sen. Disappointing. Can we have the ipseA woman back for another q &a?

Thanks for completely ignoring my question about paperwork, I'd love see these inspectors and government officials caring for 1 year olds and doing the required paperwork we have to do!
It would certainly change if they did try!

Not sure my question was really answered TBH. A fair bit of side stepping and blatant avoidance all round me thinks.

I don't think he answered any questions particularl well. Avoided a lot of issues.