Webchat with Tom Watson MP, Thursday 4 September, 1-2pm

[VikkiMumsnet]

Labour MP Tom Watson is joining us at MNHQ for a webchat nextThursday 4 September, from1-2pm, to talk about the developing situation concerning allegations of child sexual abuse, especially those relating to people in positions of power in Westminster and beyond.

Tom is Labour MP for West Bromwich East and, earlier this year, he launched a petition calling on the Prime Minister to establish a national enquiry into allegations of organised child sex abuse, after it emerged that Home Office files – relating to allegations which may have involved senior Westminster and Whitehall figures in the 1970s and 1980s – had gone missing.

Unfortunately, parliamentary privilege does not extend to Mumsnet webchats - so please don't post allegations about named or identifiable individuals; we may have to delete posts that do. And please remember our usual webchat guidelines:

1. One question per member plus a follow-up question if appropriate, i.e. once you've had a response.
2. Keep your question brief
3. Don't be disappointed if your specific question doesn't get answered and do try not to keep posting "What about me?".
4. Do be civil/polite.

Thanks Tom for responding to my question.

"We do not want a society where children are afraid to talk to men or fear them." But the answer to that is not to ignore it as the elephant in the room but to tackle the problem. And to tackle the problem it needs to named. Saying we don't want to frighten children is avoiding the problem. It isn't naming the problem that is frightening. It is the perpetrators and those who refuse to deal with them that is frightening.

@SarahThane

Dear Tom, do you agree organisations have trouble listening and what can someone do if they're having trouble being heard by an organisation?

Listening seems to be the rarest commodity in politics. There certainly seems to be a bigh problem in getting people in a variey of organisations to consistently and reliably listen to children or adults talking about their childhood experiences. All I can say to those who seek assistance is go to a helpline like those run by NAPAC or Childline. Even when children are listened to by the organisations with the duty to care for them the problem remains of there being no-one whose job it is to pull together threads which should be linked up. These are not always disconnected abuses. We have to develop a national strategic approach to protection our children and get away from this fragmentation.

I cannot tell you the number of retired child protection specialist who have given their time to deal with historic cases. They have been shouting out their concerns from the highest roof tops for years and very few people have listened to them.

Dear Tom, do you agree organisations have trouble listening and what can someone do if they're having trouble being heard by an organisation.

@MichellePolitico

Hi Tom

Back in June you led the fight for a inquiry for Child Abuse to be investigated by the Home Office. However, this investigation seems to have become static. Do you agree, particularly with the full details published of Rotherham that it is now time to step back up to the platform a push for an inquiry into child abuse across both national and local government institutions. Rotherham's report covered for 1997, but the rot must have already been there.

Will we see you fighting for this inquiry once Parliment resumes?

It doesn't feel like I've ever stepped off the platform Michelle! I'm not going anywhere until we get a grip of this. The next stage is a properly resourced national police investigations team.

If it all goes quiet here, and there's a chance for another point . . . . I'm sure there will be lots of survivors reading this who won't be posting.

Are there are groups/helplines that you and your team really rate?

Perhaps having a few contact details here would help as I know sometimes people have a bad experience with some they try and then don't know where to turn.

@Nancy66

Can you explain to me what you think the long term benefit of an enquiry would be?

Seems to be we love an enquiry in this country. We even have enquiries about enquiries. They take forever, cost a fortune but do they ever really change anything?

In the short term when results are published there is a flurry of publicity and outrage. Changes are promised, the old 'lessons will be learned' line is trotted out.

Sorry, but I'm just not connived enquiries ever achieve anything.

Hi Nancy,

Well I understand you concern, particularly over the very large and long running inquiries.

Theresa May seems to have shaped a new form of inquiry though. The work of the Hillsborough team is a model which I think can be modelled. There is also the Daniel Morgan inquiry to examine police corruption.

I also think the Leveson inquiry did quite a lot to examine the dreadful excesses of some of our national tabloid newspapers.

I want to understand how people evaded justice. Where were the institutional failures etc.

And the current inquiry should also be an important platform to amplify the voices of survivors - who have not been heard.

Tom, can I just give you a high five for making a stance with all the work you have done on tackling Murdoch? (despite putting yourself at great risk from his bullying and manipulative tactics).

Can I ask what you'd recommend the everyday person can do to help with this effort?

@brandnewinformation

Hi Tom,

I'd be interested to know what you think about Labour's chances in the General Election next year - do you really think victory is a possibility with Ed Miliband as leader?

Thanks for coming on.

Off topic - but I guess I am a politician.

Yes, I do think Labour can win, especially with Ed Miliband as leader.

@AndromacheRules

Tom, can I just give you a high five for making a stance with all the work you have done on tackling Murdoch? (despite putting yourself at great risk from his bullying and manipulative tactics).

Can I ask what you'd recommend the everyday person can do to help with this effort?

Don't buy the Sun! (and thanks)

@scallopsrgreat

Thanks Tom for responding to my question.

"We do not want a society where children are afraid to talk to men or fear them." But the answer to that is not to ignore it as the elephant in the room but to tackle the problem. And to tackle the problem it needs to named. Saying we don't want to frighten children is avoiding the problem. It isn't naming the problem that is frightening. It is the perpetrators and those who refuse to deal with them that is frightening.

I said in my first sentence that the evidence is that perpetrators are mainly men. I don't think I can be clearer than that.

@CFSKate

What happened to Barbara Castle's dossier?

Good question. I wish I knew.

What a woman she was. Pension reform, road safety, women's pay. We need more like her.

Hey Tom - thank for coming on, it's been really interesting. On a more party political note - what's your position on Labour and the unions? Do you think the party (and you) are too close to them? Any thoughts on how to update the relationship?

Tom, what about people in positions of power today who were responsible for covering up abuse in the past? I'm thinking of senior judges who have been asked to lead national inquiries into high profile social services failures, despite having attacked journalistic inquiries into e.g. the Islington children's homes paedophile gang scandal in the 1990s. And senior politicians.

Do you think people in positions where they are supposed to hold others to account can be made to resign if they have ignored reports of abuse in the past?

Like everyone else, want to say thanks for your work here, and for taking on Murdoch.

@CFSKate

Is part of the problem that no matter how we design systems and make rules to prevent child abuse, people are getting away with it for other reasons (I can't think of the word, I mean something like soft power). I'm thinking of Savile and his visible friendships in high places, or this Rotherham fear of appearing racist etc. Or if your abuser is part of the political elite they have so much power how can you fight them? How can we make a system or set of rules that can circumvent this social behaviour?

Tough one to answer. The truth is it's hard. I've talked with many survivors who name some of the most powerful people in the land as abusers - across the political spectrum. Child abusers seem to be in every walk of life but the more power the abuser has, the harder it is to bring them to justice.

In the end, it's down to check and balances, tenacious journalism, honest policing and effective politicians.

I'm pretty certain there are some very powerful figures who thought they had got away with abuse who are now worried. Good! I hope we can finish the job.

@edamsavestheday

Tom, what about people in positions of power today who were responsible for covering up abuse in the past? I'm thinking of senior judges who have been asked to lead national inquiries into high profile social services failures, despite having attacked journalistic inquiries into e.g. the Islington children's homes paedophile gang scandal in the 1990s. And senior politicians.

Do you think people in positions where they are supposed to hold others to account can be made to resign if they have ignored reports of abuse in the past?

Like everyone else, want to say thanks for your work here, and for taking on Murdoch.

Yes - and thankfully after the events of Rotherham, Yvette Cooper and Theresa May think this. The people who turned a blind eye disgust me.

@LoveAndSqualor

Hey Tom - thank for coming on, it's been really interesting. On a more party political note - what's your position on Labour and the unions? Do you think the party (and you) are too close to them? Any thoughts on how to update the relationship?

Am I too close to the unions? I don't think so.
Is Labour too close to the unions? No.

I think unions are more needed with this mob in power than when Thatcher and Tebbit tried to finish them off in the eighties.

Thanks Tom, so you are hopeful that those who ignored victims and journalistic investigations highlighting abuse in the past will be brought to book? I'd like to think so. Makes me feel sick seeing X appointed as an expert to pronounce on the failings of others when they, at best, failed to act, at worst covered up.

(And agree re. unions btw, union funding is far more transparent and democratic than donations from the super-wealthy and big business who want access to the PM and cabinet or influence over policies.)

Thanks for coming.

Do you really believe that 'fear of being seen as racist' is an adequate excuse? Or do you think that actually society views children from poor families and looked after children as somehow dispensable and unreliable as complainants, and that, when it comes down to it, that was the main problem that caused the inertia in Rotherham and elsewhere? How do you think we can change society's view of those children?

@Angeleno

Hi Tom,

Thanks so much for coming to MN.

You seem to like taking on big entities, ie Murdoch and the establishment. As the digital world takes hold, what do you think the emerging threats are?

My biggest fear when it comes to digital matters is that we as a society allow the state to monitor too much of our digital lives.

The three party leaders agreed a secret deal to railroad through the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act in a week. This obliges internet providers to hold all your metadata (who you text, call, email and all your geolocation data, times of communication, etc) for a year. Are you a criminal or terrorist? Why should you be a suspect?

@staverton

Hi Tom Thanks for making time to come on MN. I'm sure many many more people will be reading this than posting questions.

Well done for campaigning for a full inquiry into this horrendous historical child abuse. I just hope it will have full power to investigate wherever it is taken, however powerful and influential the accused. I think the key will be the mix of people on the panel. There are a number of people behind the scenes who are working flat out on this (currently unpaid, retired etc) who I think would be ideal on the panel - they are full of integrity, are more than capable of joining the dots, and are credible to the public so it is not seen as yet another cover up. People like Peter McKelvie, Clive Driscoll, Dr Liz Davies, "murun" the bloke behind the spotlight on abuse blogspot. What can be done to ensure people like this are involved at that level?

As an outsider, it it very frustrating to watch. It is almost 2 years since you first raised it in that PMQ and even though the police have had hundreds of people come forward with specific allegations there have been very few high profile arrests. Are you confident that the police team will see this through? They seem massively understaffed for such a huge investigation. What can be done to increase numbers working on the case? Will the police be able to arrest suspects if information comes out in the inquiry?

Sorry more than 1 question. There may be a few more in a bit.

Thank you for your very kind words. We are making progress but it has been slow. If you get the chance to help campaign for the establishment of a national police team to investigate organised abuse it would really help.

After the inquiry was announced by Theresa May the number of cops on Operation Fernbridge was tripled from seven to 21. It's progress but nowhere near good enough.

Of the other answers I was particularly pleased with the brief ones here
Listening seems to be the rarest commodity in politics
I hope some politicians read and learn from that comment

Don't buy The Sun
Amen to that

and
The people who turned a blind eye disgust me
and so say all of us

Thank you Tom for responding to my question.

@Hendricksandcucumber

Dear Tom,

Thank you for coming to do the webchat. My question is, in an ideal world, how would you alter the current system to try to ensure nothing of this scale happens again?

Yes.

It saddens me that as a society we allowed our kids to suffer such terrible crimes.

To re-iterate a few of the points I've raised earlier. Experts and campaigners tell me that mandatory reporting, with a criminal sanction for failure will help. So too will much safeguarding measures in the independent school sector. Can you believe that some establishments allow compromise agreement freeing and alleged abuse to move on to a new establishment?

We need a national police team.

The current inspections regime for schools is fragmented and doesn't reach all children in all setting.

The disclosure and barring service had it's threshold raised by Michael Gove. This need to be looked at again.

Thanks for your reply.
What do you think the best way to campaign for that would be?
It sounds like you do have faith in the current police investigation and Theresa may.

You are outstanding. Well done to you and your team.

@Greenrememberedhills

Tom, you did sterling work on the hacking scandal and now on CSA.

You have respect where most MPs don't. Please keep shouting about the CSA issue. Many people suspect a wide ranging problem, and one involving people in various positions of power.

My own view about Rotherham is that whilst on this occasion most of the perpetrators were Asian, the issue is not a race one, and also involves plenty of people in positions of power.

Thanks for the kind words. Those people who are/were in positions of power are the ones that need to be the focus of police investigations.

"I said in my first sentence that the evidence is that perpetrators are mainly men." Yes you did Tom. But so did I. It wasn't what I asked. And then I felt you immediately glossed over it again. If everyone knows that's the problem then why isn't it being talked about in those terms? Why is it being dressed up as a racial issue or isolated incidents or celebrity culture or whatever other angle these 'tenacious journalists' decide?