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MNHQ

Meet the MNHQ moderators. Live chat Friday 8th Nov, 1-2pm

55 replies

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2013 11:09

Hi all,
We promised you a webchat to discuss all things moderation (and anything else you fancy really). So, tomorrow lunchtime RebeccaMumsnet, RowanMumsnet and I (and possibly a few other team members - suspect that OliviaMumsnet might be lurking) will be on hand at 1pm to answer your questions. If you can't make it along, then do post your questions here in advance. Mind the guidelines at the top of the page now - only one question each and be nice Wink.

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MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:00

Hello, hello,
We've just about made it on time to our own webchat (phew). Rowan is next to me, Becky is in a remote location but online and Olivia and others are hovering. So ta for all the questions and we'll get going in just a jiffy.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:04

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Often the moderators seem very slow, no doubt due to high volumes of reports.

If the volunteer night time moderation is successful do you have any plans to introduce volunteer mods full time?

Well, there are definitely times when we're slower on responding than we would like to be - usually after a big troll influx or a mass bunfight, when we have a big backlog of reports to respond to. But we've done some analysis on the data, and overall our response times have actually improved over the last year: this time last year we were taking an average of 0.4 of a day to respond to a report; now we take an average of 0.3 of a day.

Obviously we'd love to respond to everything the instant it lands in our inbox [land of dreams] and we're sorry for any instances in which a slowness to respond has caused anyone real difficulty, but in general our response times are pretty much as they've always been (and if anything, getting a bit quicker).

Overnight volunteers: they're not mods (our bad for using the word) - they're strictly general keepers-of-eye (we think we're going to be calling them The Night Watch/ Night Watchers). We're not going to be asking them to do anything they wouldn't do anyway: we're not going to be asking them to work specific shifts or demand that they're online for certain periods. They're purely bona fide, checked-out MNers in non-GMT timezones who, in the course of their ordinary MNing, will have access to one extra button (hide post/thread), which will temporarily remove the content of the post and replace it with a message saying that the post is going to be looked at by MNHQ.

Obviously we will be keeping an eye on it, and if any of the Night Watch seem to be hiding posts for odd reasons we will take action.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:04

@NatashaBee

Do you have non-mumsnet-moderator logins so you can post in AIBU about annoying colleagues? :)

I've got loads of logins from when Mumsnet first started, way back in early 2000 and I used to answer my own questions under various pseudonyms. I also used to get my mates to ask questions. I remember a friend mailing me about her pregnancy palpitations and I told her to post it on Mumsnet and then I'd answer. Felt a bit guilty about it, so rushed on site to answer only to find someone had beaten me too it. That was a happy day when it dawned on me MN might just have a future.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:05

@HorryIsUpduffed

How long is Tech's to-do list, and what proportion of it is compatibility issues across standard site/mobile site/app?

It's long, but getting shorter. We have pretty much doubled the size of the tech team in a year and will keep adding folks incrementally as we know it's so important and there's so much we'd love to do. One of our problems is that we're so old, our infrastructure is a bit creaky - as demonstrated aptly by penis beaker - so we're doing lots of work behind to the scenes to address that (and have been for a while) that doesn't actually result in any whizzy new functionality. So it can look like Tech are twiddling their thumbs, but really they've been hard at it.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:08

@Maryz

And have you given any thought to my suggestion of solving the overnight problem by having a "this thread has been reported by X number of individual posters, so we will automatically lock it until we can look at it" idea?

It would stop overnight stirrers and trolls.

The truth is, we just don't like the idea of automated anything, because it can be too easily gamed. Put it like this - if we ever do introduce anything automated, we probably won't tell you we've done so

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:10

@LovesBeingHereAgain

Has the night mods gone live ? why wasn't it me

How are you going to get tge balance right, it's a fine line most of tge time and subjective.

Hope we've answered most of this in our previous post about the Night Watch. We'll be reviewing every single decision taken by the Nightwatchwomen and offering feedback - and if we think they've hidden a post or thread unnecessarily, we'll just reinstate it.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:13

@ChippingInBatshitArse

Rowan what is the 'mode' average rather than the 'mean' average?

Our tracking software won't let us work this out Chipping so we'd have to do a report-by-report calculation across tens of thousands of reports to find this out. (Which we're not going to do Grin)

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:13

@LineRunner

I am wondering, do you all have an agreed definition of goading?

And how will you manage to be fair and consistent in applying it?

Hi Linerunner,

Goady is a tricky one but if you look at our Talk Guidelines you will see that we say

No trolling, misleading or deliberately inflammatory behaviour

The guidelines used to include the word goading which in hindsight was a mistake on our part and they were edited earlier this year.

Each report is a judgement call for the person who receives the report.

Generally, we will discuss between us what the best course of action is depending on many different factors like the tone of the post, the poster (length of time on site, if they've been flagged to us before etc), the subject matter and so on.

There are lots of subjects that posting about could come across at deliberately inflammatory and we do take note that there is a fine line between allowing freedom of speech about touch paper issues and posting to inflame.

We do get it wrong sometimes. We do tend to give the benefit of the doubt unless it's an out and out obvious case or the poster is known to have done this sort of thing before.

We do try and work as a team to be fair and consistent and we often have sometimes very bizarre discussions about certain posts/posters and try to strike a balance.

We rely on you to report posts to us and we do appreciate that it can sometimes seem like we aren't doing anything but we will be noting and building up a picture of posters who repeatedly post to inflame and if they continue, we do take action.

Statistically we remove around half of the posts that are reported as being 'goady'. So when folks are reported for goading, about half the time they are simply posting a controversial viewpoint.

The majority of posts reported for being goady are written by 'normal' posters (we aren’t being overrun by GFs, although it can feel that way)

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:14

@Hullygully

These are the problems/flaws as I see them:
  1. As human beings, mods, despite good intentions, will inevitably a) read things in different spirits b) apply the rules differently therefore.
  1. A lot of threads bumble along full of people mucking about, being rude to each other etc etc and no one minds so no one reports so nothing happens. THEN on some threads, others take exception and report like mad, so that things seen as normally acceptable, are then deleted. Thus it looks like reporting=deletion
  1. If people take a dislike/exception to someone, they deliberately report report report in a concerted attempt to get that person "in trouble" (I can't believe I'm having to type this), whereas said individual would never use such behaviour and thus has little defence against it.

I don't know the answers to any of it.

I don't disagree with any of this, but short of having a football field of moderators we have to really rely on people to bring things to our attention - legally it's also a good idea: The moment you start trying to pre-moderate (ie checking all posts) you're in danger of being seen as a publisher in the traditional sense and open yourself up to lots of potential defamation claims.

There is no neat answer beyond everyone a) trying to stick to the rules b) reporting things that break them c) mods having some flexibility to use their common sense and not sticking to completely hard and fast rules.

The last point is why we try to avoid spelling out every single eg of a personal attack - so often it's more nuanced than that.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:16

@ZingWantsCake

Well, I really fancy discussing why - despite many pleas, begging, wishing and hoping - there is still no gin emoticon. Shock just why? it can't be hard!

I think that issue is an urgent one.
we need Gin. really, we do.

and today would be the best for introducing it, since it my 1st MNiversary and I would love a special gift.
just saying.

Gin

thanks for listenGIN.Wink

You don't think gin and wine is overkill? I mean we could do it if folks really want. We could even try to get Gordons to sponsor, I suppose. [there's an idea]

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:17

@mollythetortoise

Overnight/ after hours does seem to be a weak spot.

I guess because everyone at mnhq is quite rightly in bed.
Would you consider paid and well trained over night mods?
A small team of 4 working in pairs could manage 14 shifts a week (7 nights x 2 mods each night)

I must declare an interest here as it is a job I would loveto do but that aside, the overnight mods could generally keep on top of the nightly shenanigans , freeing up Rowan's / Rebecca's time every morning, which must currently be spent deleting overnight threads and posts.

We're going to wait and see how the Night Watch goes - hopefully it will resolve a lot of the problems around puerile overnight spamming/abuse sprees.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:18

@Maryz

I'm concerned about the number of deletions for "personal attacks" where really I don't believe it's an attack but part of an argument.

I was deleted the other day for saying someone was "pathetic". I was trying to make the point that passive-aggressive "poor me everyone is being horrible to me" posts aren't actually proof of bullying, but are possibly proof that the poster was wrong.

It seems to be that if a post is reported it is deleted, with no account taken of the discussion that is going on.

Hi Maryz,

Personal attacks can be fairly straight forward. You can post to question what someone has posted but not to personally attack them as an individual.

RebeccaMumsnet, you are pathetic - personal attack
RebeccaMumsnet, your post was pathetic - fine

There is obviously some wibbly ground around PAs for example

RebeccaMumsnet, your post makes you sound pathetic - probably ok (we would look at the context)

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:20

@ChippingInBatshitArse

Thanks for answering Rowan :) That really does make the 'average' a bit meaningless though, because if MN are on a thread and are zapping posts immediately that is going to lower the 'mean' average 'considerably'. I know when I have reported something it's usually 24hrs before I have had a reply and we all know the troll posts are there for more than .3 of a day.

Not quite Chipping, because when MNHQ is in a thread deleting things, that often (depending on how we're doing it) won't be generating a report - IYSWIM? So it won't be affecting these stats.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:22

@Goatmint

Can we have access to info? Eg

Number of joiners per month/ number of members to date

Number of unique users per month

Number of posts/ month

Number of posts reported/ deleted/ month

Actually seeing the numbers would put things into context, & might even neutralise the ' it's gone to hell in a handcart' perception.

Also I was wondering if the inconsistencies in format and capability between MN versions for different devices could be ironed out. I have worked out that people post Thanks type icons, but I can't see them so it makes posts difficult to interpret. Communicating seems to be hard enough, without us not talking the same emoticon language on different devices.

Thank you.

Joiners - about 10 000 per month (last month was higher though [penisbeaker])
Unique users - 5 million per month
Posts/month - about 30 000 per day
Posts reported - about 6,000 per month
Posts deleted - about 2500 per month

Yes we are very much working on ironing out inconsistencies. Plan for 2014 is first infrastructure then consistency and UX across all platforms. It's a top priority.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:22

@BoreOfWhabylon

I know the 'block poster' issue has been brought up many times before and is not considered a good idea (don't want it myself) BUT could there be the option to colour specified poster/s on a thread, as we can OPs posts? Would make it easier to just skip past the coloured posts as NFI. red would be good

We'd be happy to consider this, if other people think it's a good idea and would be a reasonable compromise on the Hide Poster thing?

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:22

@RemindMeWhatSleepIs

If you can get Gordon's to sponsor the GIN emotion on a usage basis, we promise to all use it on every post! Thanks

Imagine what the Daily Mail would have to say about that Grin

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:24

@Suddengeekgirl

I don't fancy being a Mod! You just can't win sometimes! Confused

My question is...
What is your preferred method of dealing with the grief spammers/ trolls and naughty MNers have caused you?
Chocolate, biscuits, gin or rocking in a corner? :)

Gin, always Gin Grin TBH it depends on the extent of the troll and what they have done. The blatant trolling that is just stupid/silly etc is fine to deal with, if not a bit tedious.

It's the nasty stuff that can sometimes take a while to deal with but we have a lovely team and after it has passed, we talk about it together and see if we could have handled it better or if it pulled up any issues that need talking about. and then we rock gently in the corner

oh and Wine and Cake , natch

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:25

@InkleWinkle

What is the thing that posters do that annoys you most of all? (Apart from the obvious trolling)

The thing that really gets to me is when people think you're being devious and/or making decisions only with regard to profit. I find that strangely hurtful, partly because we don't really think of ourselves as a regular business - profit has never been the overarching aim and for many, many years Mumsnet seemed like the worst business idea in the WORLD and I didn't get paid but it was worth it in so many other ways. But I suppose newbies wouldn't know that and there is a deep cynicism about business. Just always irks and I have to v careful sit on my hands.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:28

@DoItTooJulia

I would like to know if the mumsnet mod teams looks at threads generally to police them, or do you wait for reports before you look at things?

We don't actively look at the boards on the whole. We totally rely on posters reporting posts that break the Talk guidelines

We don't and have never actively moderated the boards.

Mumsnet is self-policing in that respect, so do report and we will look.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:29

@Taffeta

I would be interested to know how MNHQ view posters who appear to be kind and fair, and then namechange and are abusive and unpleasant.

So that everyone that "knows" them on MN then sticks up for them all the time, as they think they are kind and fun, but in reality a small group of people know otherwise.

I guess this isn't trolling or sock puppeting, does it have a name and is there an MNHQ view on it?

Not sure that this does have a name, but 'abusive' would definitely break Guidelines, so if they're reported they'll be racking up Hmm faces and warning mails from us, and if it happens enough they'll be suspended. I can't actually think off the top of my head of anyone who is 'lovely' under their normal name and horrible under another name - but if you have info we don't have then please please do share...

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:30

@ChippingInBatshitArse

I have been suggesting (for quite some time now) that MNHQ does not permit namechanging for the first year (without going through MNHQ and having you do it for them if there is a really good reason for it).

(I know people can sign up multiple accounts but surely there is a limit to how many one person is able to do?)

Can you please tell me why you don't think this would help? Or if you agree it would help - why you don't want to or can't do it?

We don't think namechanging is that big an issue - namechanging to deliberately inflame is actually pretty easy for us to track and doesn't happen that often. Re-regging with a new account is the trickier thing...

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:34

@marriedinwhiteisback

What about stalking posters who never quite cross the line but pop up within a few posts of a poster and are generally damning and rude and bring up previous posts they have disagreed with. Have never reported one because it doesn't quite cross the line but it is disconcerting.

Please do report them and let us know why. We may not delete that post but it will help us to build a picture of an individual and if you tell us that you have witness that kind of behaviour, we can have a look from the back-end.

Reports aren't just for clear cut personal attacks, they can just be to let us know about a situation that you think is building or a specific poster who is causing issues or they can be to flag something particularly funny or relevant.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:38

[quote Hopasholic]I would like to know the 'stats'

Is there really an influx of trolls at the moment and are you having to delete far more threads/posts than you usually do?
I've not been here long, 9 months

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:39

@BrightSunshineyDay

I don't think any posts or threads should be deleted. More than once I have read a poster retell what a post said or how a thread went - I have had that thread open on another tab and realised the "regular" was misremembering or shit stirring. Deletable posts should stay up with a comment from MNHQ and deletable threads should be locked. That way we can all see who the cunts are. However, rightly or wrongly, if a regular smells bullshit on a thread then I do tend to listen. Do MNHQ do the same? Do you look more deeply if something is reported by a regular rather than a newbie who has only posted a couple of times?

Whilst I see the logic in leaving posts for others to see how unpleasant a poster is, I think there's quite a lot of things we just don't want to host on our forums tbh - racist, homophobic, sexist, disablist stuff etc.

We also think that civility as a rule makes for a much better discussion/debate - once it gets personal, conversations very quickly get derailed.

RE looking more closely at posts from regulars - I'm sure this happens. I don't actively do site duty any more but it's a natural consequence of experience that you know whom to listen carefully to after a while...

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2013 13:41

@moldingsunbeams

Are the nightwatch people existing users or people at HQ who have agreed to work overnight [curious]

They're existing users.

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