Live webchat about childcare reform with Liz Truss, Education & Childcare Minister, Thursday 7 February, 1pm

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello hello,

We'll be welcoming the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Education and Childcare - Elizabeth Truss MP - for a webchat on Thursday Feb 7th (tomorrow) 1pm - 2pm.

As the Member of Parliament for South West Norfolk, Elizabeth Truss lives in Downham Market with her husband and two daughters. She was brought up in Yorkshire and, before entering Parliament, worked as the Deputy Director at the think-tank Reform. She also worked in the energy and telecommunications industry for 10 years and is a qualified management accountant.

Elizabeth recently wrote a Mumsnet guest blog on the Government's plans for childcare reform, which generated this recent thread - and childcare expert Penelope Leach responded to the proposals here.

Do post your question in advance on this thread, or join us live on Thursday 1pm-2pm.

And, as ever, a gentle reminder to all to stick to our webchat guidelines.

Many thanks.

@NicoleWild

I would like to know.

I agree with your ideas and proposals that people working with young children should be of a higher educational level. Degrees would be perfect. That's great for preschools, and to raise salaries as well.

What would happen to us Childminders? Who generally work longer hours than nurseries and preschools often offering overnight, emergency care etc.

I could spend £5,000 or however much it is on a Degree and still only be paid £3.50 per HOUR. I work 50 hours a week which doesn't include out of hours paperwork. Who will raise out salaries? If I had a degree, and as a Childminder I will be earning 9,200PA or I could work in a nursery and receive 20k PA ISH, I'd be working in a nursery pronto. Less and less Childminders.... I don't like the idea of that.

Nicole, I really agree with you about the importance of qualifications. We've just introduced a new Ofsted framework which is much more focused on child outcomes, and I know that Ofsted is very keen to take more account of qualifications of staff in their assessments. Over the past 20 years, the number of childminders has halved. I'm very keen to reverse that trend. One of the measures we're taking is making sure that Ofsted approved childminders can offer the three and four-year-old places without having to jump through further hoops.

How many childminders did you consult about these proposed changes?
I'm sure nurseries were in favour as they will increase profit ( with no benefit to the parents); and I'm a little unsure why you consulted nannies as I can't imagine many nannies look after 4 little ones at once ( did you just ask your own nanny her opinion?).

I think you've been more than a little disingenuous by saying you understand the problems of finding childcare when you have only ever used a nanny which isn't an option for the vast majority of parents ( who will instead have to use a nursery where their baby will be one of many being ignored by overworked staff)

There is NO CONSENSUS for a change in ratios - early years professionals and parents are clearly and vocally opposed to this. The Minister should begin with a comprehensive consultation with the sector. NDNA have long lobbied for changes to VAT and business rates, but ultimately supply side subsidy (as in Nordic countries) would be a major step towards affordability.

'I;ve noticed in France, there's quite a structured approach where qualified professionals organise activities for groups of children, and I think that is beneficial. '

Have you considered the possibility that it's the only possible way of organising large groups of children - it has to be highly structured or it would be complete chaos. Doesn't necessarily mean it's beneficial for child development.

YES chazzy2008: I notice that there doesnt appear to be a single poster on here that agrees with the minister??? Surely if she had consulted "lots and lots" of childminders and parents then they would be on here supporting her??

Liz: will you please just admit that you are barking up the wrong tree completely and that you need to stop NOW and do the job properly.

Parents and Childcare professionals WILL NOT BE FOBBED OFF!

Roll on 2015 - it could not come soon enough.

Thanks for replying ms truss but it didn't really answer my question. When you discuss the French system etc you are referring to what are effectively pre schools with older children NOT under 3s........ It is this age group which the higher ratio will have a Damaging effect on.

What happened to the idea of 'Freeplay' for children? I thought there had to be a balance between child led and adult led play. France is far too regimented, even my friend who lived out there for a few years said it was just too much for little ones.

If u want to save money surely u should be looking at tax credit fraud i dont have a problem with it going to agencies i just cant see how thats going to save u money and benifit children as especially with the ratios as young children need one to one care thats y people choose childminders

@JustCallMeBaldrick

Liz, Isn't the proposal aboutOfsted being the Quality Assessors a bit ridiculous, as they'll then be assessing their own ideas? Surely that aspect should remain within the remit of LAs?

At the moment, Ofsted are the only organisation with the power to actually close down an early years provider, so that's who nurseries are ultimately accountable to. I think one of the problems with our current system is that if something does happen, providers can be uncertain about who to call. I hope this change will help clarify accountability and as I've mentioned, Ofsted are particularly keen to make sure weaker providers improve.

The county I live in had an extensive bank of childminding development officers suported by the NCMA.They were an invaluable source of support when I started childminding. A couple of years ago they were all given their marching orders because of lack of funds.
I will ask again, how will these 'agencies' be funded?

Although my question was answered, there is absolutely no reference to what I had actually stated.

Nonetheless, I think it is important not to pick and choose what other countries are doing. You keep repeating that this is what France etc. are doing. These 'other' countries have different types of people altogether. They have different morals and values. I simply cannot understand why you keep comparing us with other countries. If we wanted French childcare I think half of us would be packing our bags now with a French Dictionary.

As you can see from my username, I am a cm as well as a mum, like a lot of people here, and as a mum AND a cm I would not like my children to be in with a higher ratio if children to staff...

@Bicnod

I still don't feel you have answered this question adequately. How many PARENTS were consulted, how many childcare providers (nurseries and childminders)?

It is very clear from your response that the answer is NOT ENOUGH.

We'll post a list of all the people we've consulted with when developing these proposals. Can I highlight again that all of these changes that we're proposing are voluntary for the providers, and only if they meet rigorous quality checks. Parents ultimately have the choice about where they go for childcare, but my strong observation as a parent is that the choice is really limited, difficult to find and expensive. I want to enable good providers to expand, make sure that we get more childminders, and improve the information available for parents.

Can I ask a supplementary question?

If the proposed ratio changes for under 2's are to help with crossover/emergency situations then what safeguards will there be to ensure that private nurseries do not exploit the change of ratio to produce 'battery' nurseries?

Where is the credible UK-based research backing up this policy, Ms Truss?

I agree starlight78...if we wanted our children educated and cared for like the French do we would move there....why do we have to be constantly told we need to be doing things the way other countries do it??? childminders are doing it right at the moment...why fix something that isnt broken????

At the moment, Ofsted are the only organisation with the power to actually close down an early years provider, so that's who nurseries are ultimately accountable to. I think one of the problems with our current system is that if something does happen, providers can be uncertain about who to call. I hope this change will help clarify accountability and as I've mentioned, Ofsted are particularly keen to make sure weaker providers improve.

Actually wrong, cssiw here in Wales for childminders, not all childcarers, and I can assure you that the cssiw inspectors are also horrified with the increase of ratios.

The parents consulted are probably all Whitehall Mandarins .

Hello Liz, best of luck today.

My question relates to that fact that for many parents, having a child means that their salary no longer significantly exceeds their childcare bill. For these parents, the choice to work (and therefore pay tax) is not purely financial. They need to find good enough quality childcare to convince them to leave their child there, whilst going to work for a very small, if any, net financial gain to the family.

Decreasing the number of staff per child, particularly in under twos, would be more of a deterrant to many people than slightly reduced costs would be an incentive.

Well subsidised, high quality childcare from birth, on the other hand, would make a huge difference. Cost to parents in the order of £15 per day is what I'm thinking. I believe this sort of thing is in place in many of the countries you have mentioned as examples of having better systems than us.

Did you consider this option and, if so, why was it rejected?

What has happened to child led play in all this structure. Children learn through play not structured activities, they need to use imagination.

I don't think you have any intention of listening to us, why else are you blocking us on Twitter?

As for NCMA members being happy about agencies, this is just a lie. I have not spoken to a single Childminder who would be happy with this.

It's time to follow your master (gove) and do u turn now before your damaging proposals start to harm our children.

@midnightexpress

'I;ve noticed in France, there's quite a structured approach where qualified professionals organise activities for groups of children, and I think that is beneficial. '

Have you considered the possibility that it's the only possible way of organising large groups of children - it has to be highly structured or it would be complete chaos. Doesn't necessarily mean it's beneficial for child development.

There are different approaches, certainly from what I've seen in nurseries I've visited like Durand, the structured approach has helped children later on in their education. The head teacher, Greg Martin, told me that children who'd been with them since age 3 were better at learning and concentrating by the time they'd reached age 7. Of course there are different styles of learning for a 3 year old and a 7 year old, but all of the evidence does point to the importance of highly qualified professionals. We'll post some examples of how play and structure can be combined.

Anyone else sitting here feeling increasingly frustrated?

We HAVE high quality provision already.There are providers that need to improve, yes, but that's the case in any country.

These responses are really quite patronising, and suggest that you have a very low opinion of current standards in childcare in this country.
I think you need to remember that, as well as being parents, a great number of us make up part of the childcare workforce.
WE are the people you should be listening to and consulting with. Instead I feel that questions aren't being answered, and that, frankly, I've wasted my time in posting the questions I did.

Disappointed. :(