Live webchat about childcare reform with Liz Truss, Education & Childcare Minister, Thursday 7 February, 1pm

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello hello,

We'll be welcoming the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Education and Childcare - Elizabeth Truss MP - for a webchat on Thursday Feb 7th (tomorrow) 1pm - 2pm.

As the Member of Parliament for South West Norfolk, Elizabeth Truss lives in Downham Market with her husband and two daughters. She was brought up in Yorkshire and, before entering Parliament, worked as the Deputy Director at the think-tank Reform. She also worked in the energy and telecommunications industry for 10 years and is a qualified management accountant.

Elizabeth recently wrote a Mumsnet guest blog on the Government's plans for childcare reform, which generated this recent thread - and childcare expert Penelope Leach responded to the proposals here.

Do post your question in advance on this thread, or join us live on Thursday 1pm-2pm.

And, as ever, a gentle reminder to all to stick to our webchat guidelines.

Many thanks.

@KatyMac

I operate a mixed age (4 months to school age) childminding setting.

We can already use higher than childminding ratios as I have a registration as Childcare on Domestic Premises.

I am an Early Years Professional

If I & my team have decided that currently the ratios we use are the best ratios for our children; will we be persuaded to use the new ratios?

I am also strongly against reducing 'monitoring' reducing the councils input is fine if it's replaced by a yearly OFSTED inspection (perhaps a yearly spot check & a 3 yearly paperwork inspection)?

It's entirely up to you whether you use the new flexibilities. This is all about allowing professionals to make more decisions about what happens in their setting.

ms Truss

May I point out that you dont have to be qualified to be good at your job!
Is there going to be funding available for existing childminders to get "more qualifications" ?

Ms Truss, only just spotted this webchat!

I would happily lend you my 2 yo, along with 3 others, and 2 babies for a day. I would wish you all the best of British luck....would you like to take me up on this.

Completely ignoring the issue of other countries using highly subsidised childcare, the cultural difference in expectations from parents and families and the social and economic climate of those countries as compared to ours . I also put value on having highly qualified people, but no-where have you mentioned anything about how this might benefit (HA!) the children in any way, there is no guarantee that costs will go down, parents are overwhelmingly against these proposals, childcare professionals have serious concerns that are not being addressed and you are just repeating things you have already said.

And no one is pointing out the giant elephant in the room that maybe if you just increased minimum wage to a real living wage, improved tax breaks for working parents using childcare, looked at the appalling costs of private renting, and forced employers to seriously consider flexible working patterns (rather than the cursory once over they are obliged to give them now) then more people would have more incentive to work.

I am tired of the sound bites and circular answers. It is clear that the public DO NOT WANT THIS. Please just listen for once.

However, in the name of MN guidelines, no more questions from me.

'There are different approaches, certainly from what I've seen in nurseries I've visited like Durand, the structured approach has helped children later on in their education. The head teacher, Greg Martin, told me that children who'd been with them since age 3 were better at learning and concentrating by the time they'd reached age 7. Of course there are different styles of learning for a 3 year old and a 7 year old, but all of the evidence does point to the importance of highly qualified professionals.'

Well, he would say that wouldn't he? There are plenty of other people saying that freeplay is more beneficial to young children. I don't see much evidence of the massive benefits of the approach on, for example, the French economy (since that appears to be the main interest of your parrty in all of this).

I'm sure that good qualifications are important, but I don't agree that this should translate to worse child:carer ratios. You can have degrees coming out of your ears but it doesn't mean you're able to look after more children better - there is no logical connection between the two. Though I guess your GCSE in maths will enable you to count the vast number of children in your care, or divide them into sets for structured English and maths activities...

The Labour government was far from perfect, but the one thing they did superbly was to invest heavily in Early Years and Sure Start.

In the past few years, so much of that work has been undone by thus government.

Yes, of course we want recognition, but not at the expense of standards and quality.

I could weep! Ms Truss, you appear to think you know so much better than anyone else. You say you have huge respect for those working in the early years sector. So why are you not listening to us?

Really?

That will be a nice change; normally advice & suggestions & best practise are actually requirements that you can be downgraded for not complying with

& yes I have evidence for that

well, she didnt answer many of those questions did she?????

Elizabeth Truss you have said:

The primary purpose of our change to ratios is to give nurseries the headroom to increase staff qualifications and pay. To give an illustration, currently the average childcare professional is earning £13,000 per year. If the nursery fulfilled the rigorous qualification requirements that we're setting out, they would be able to move to a higher ratio and pay those staff £16,000 per year, and there would still be money left over to reduce fees.

You think that nurseries can pay more for fewer more highly qualified staff, who will look after more children than at present, and reduce fees?

And you don't think the care of children will suffer?

Chasco - I'm proud to admin I AM weeping...

Elizabeth, you said: "Essentially, the agencies will be able to receive various streams of funding like the 3 and 4 year old offer, and funding from parents."

Isn't that taking away from the "front line" all the money that you are putting back in - plus overhead and profit?

From your proposals it is clear you are not a childcare professional. You have no idea how children learn and develop, and you are not listening to us or the parents!

Ms Truss, with respect, you are wrong - you keep saying that the childminders in your area need to take 3 children with them to buy milk. You said it in your NW interview and again here.
This is wrong - they can write a change to the conditions of their registration (variation / exception) following current Ofsted guidelines and EYFS requirements so they do not have to do this. As I suggested previously, please ask Ofsted or one of the childminders you apparently consult with if you would like further clarification of the flexibly that already exists within the current requirements.
One (of my many) concerns is that you are getting confused and that this confusion is maybe why you think you are doing the right thing with changing the ratios - when no change is needed.

Liz,

I have asked you via twitter to come and visit us in Wigan and see how good local authority support can and does run to support child minders. I have also asked the question what will happen to this support if child minders chose not to join an agency.

Your lack of response leads me to believe that you are already aware that removing the support in place with local authorities will happen meaning child minders will have no choice but to join an agency or go out of business. Thus many very good and highly skilled professionals will be removed from the childcare arena reducing numbers rather than increasing them as you state you want to do.

Very dissappointed

Presume she's gone now.
Completely ignored the overwhelming opinion.
The arrogance is breathtaking.
I have been trying to find a single poster who agrees with her but surprisingly none exists.

I feel that was a complete waste of time!

What an utterly pointless exercise that was.

@vezzie

Hello Ms Truss,

Picking up on a few points you have made today:

• parents pay too much for EY childcare

• childcarers are paid too little
• which is particulary apparent when viewed relative to primary school teachers

Yes, this is because we have a state-funded education system that does not require every parent who would like their child to be literate and numerate to fork out private fees of £20k pa or thereabouts.
Why are you not considering some equivalent - or even partial equivalent, eg significant tax breaks as mentioned by renlo last night at 18.16 ?
Instead, degrading ratios for very young children will degrade care, and everyone knows it.

Secondly - please can you clarify that you are going to listen to non-cherry-picked feedback from childcare professionals and parents? I see no evidence of this so far.

We are looking at funding, first of all how we can make sure that the £5bn the Government's spending at the moment is going to the frontline to make sure there is high qualify, available childcare. Secondly, we are working on new support for working parents to help with their childcare costs. At the moment we do have the most restrictive ratios in Europe, and other countries manage to provide high-quality care that parents are really happy with, and they feel more confident about going to work than parents in this country. I absolutely think that a focus on the qualifications and experience of people working in childcare rather than only the numbers will help widen the offer here. I have seen this working in practice, and we want our childcare system to the the best in the world. I recognised that the professionalism has already increased significantly, but we have to answer the question - how are we going to get up to the level of reward and qualification that other countries have?

Do you have EY education qualifications, Ms Truss? As you are so keen on qualifications? If not, on what basis are you making all these decisions about structure possibly being good for very young children, if their parents happen to think so? (EY pros do not.)

Yes but what about childcare vouchers please? And lack of holiday care provision?

I think I want to be a childminding agency

I think I'd be really good at it

Those against the bill - 235
Those in favour - 0

Speaks volumes! I'm no longer a childminder but am still passionate about the profession and cant believe how many are leaving because of all the crap that is being thrown at them! And NCMA? All you members should be asking some very serious questions about their part in this......

Was hoping to feel better by 2 pm - but I'm so angry I'm shaking. Need a lie down.
So - what's next? How do we join the two petitions together and take things further?
Does any other childcare worker feel a bit like a coal miner?!
And Parents: please help!

So if these proposals go through a nursery will be able to increase a salary by e.g 13k to 16k (less than 25% increase and even less % increase after tax) by increasing work load from 4 to 6 children (50%). Can see why the nursery might like that assuming they can fit in the extra children. Not so convinced that the nursery worker will be so happy (particularly as he/she is now supposed to be better qualified).