Live webchat with award-winning conductor, Charles Hazlewood - Wednesday 15th February 12 - 1pm

[RachelMumsnet]

Charles Hazlewood is an award-winning conductor who works regularly with great orchestras around the globe. Alongside the great traditional classical orchestras, Charles has also conducted over 50 orchestral world premieres from the cutting edge of contemporary music. Charles is committed to giving young people from all backgrounds the possibility of experiencing classical music, he appears regularly on BBCTV, Radio 3 and also periodically hosts his own show on BBC Radio 2. Charles is currently working to establish the UK's first ever national orchestra for musicians with disability; The British Paraorchestra.

This weekend (Saturday 18th February) sees Charles conducting at London's South Bank Centre for part of their Imagine Festival for children. Charles will be joined by The Southwark Youth Orchestra and the David Idowu Choir who are teaming up with the Philharmonia Orchestra to perform Dvorak's Symphony No. 9 (From The New World). The concert will be a brilliant introduction to kids of all ages to classical music and the orchestra.

Join Charles on Wednesday 15th Feb at 12 midday or send in a question in advance to this thread.

yes, the reality is that they dominate. The narrative from ABRSM goes almost unchallenged.

to be more positive, the "bridges" - the things for the future are:

• revising copyright laws so teachers can use the music kids really want to play, whether that's Abba, Swan Lake or Deep Purple (and it's probably going to be one of those three).

• extensive use of technologies such as notation software and interactive practice packages and tutorials similar to those you see on youtube. "Silent" paper will probably be a thing of the past in the next decade or so. Teachers will be able to prepare that written-out Swan Lake part or alternatively just give aural learners a midi-file.

Why would the pleasure be long gone from practising a piece to perfection? Playing becomes far more pleasurable once the technical hurdles have been overcome, not less. I can see that there would be a problem if teachers were only giving their pupils graded pieces, or teaching those pieces in a joyless way, but that would be a problem with the teacher, not with the exams.

It would be fine if we had another system by which children were given a set of achievable goals incorporating real music, technical exercises and aural practice to encourage the progression towards musical excellence, but I'm not sure that we have that. Or that there is much inherently wrong with the one we've got. If you find ABRSM too stuffy or hard there's always Trinity Guildhall after all...

Lingle, that's all very well, but it's not going to get them to Carnegie Hall. As long as professional musicians are using traditional notation etc you're not doing the more able kids any favours by not teaching them proper music theory.

Hmm, we may have different ideas of excellence here MS. Also of what is "proper".

Possibly, lingle. What I am talking about is the kind of technical facility needed to play music (particularly classical music) to a high enough level to contemplate working towards a career in music. I would be utterly amazed if traditional musical notation were to disappear in the way that you suggest in the next few decades. How on earth would professional orchestras function without it?

And while the state sector may indeed give up on teaching children to read notation, and to play "difficult" classical music, you can bet your life that those with money will pay for their children to do all this and more - aural learning style or not - and so sadly our professional orchestras and ensembles of the future are likely to look even more shockingly homogenous and middle class that they do already.

ok am following you more now MS - will think over your points - too many ideas in my head to say anything sensible yet!

Interesting what you say about Germany lingle. It hadn't really occurred to me that other countries with strong classical traditions didn't have the same system we have here.

I agree that exams can be counterproductive in some cases, particularly if there is pressure from the teacher or the parent to get on the exam "treadmill" too early, or to progress through it too fast, with no wider musical exploration. But then a lot of kids do also like an external validation of what they're doing, and to be able to peg themselves in relation to their peers. Exams are also a very useful shorthand for youth orchestras (eg. strings at least Grade 5) but they are of course only the start of the journey.

agree about lingle about the german system.
instrumental lessons are usually done outside school in a state music school. exams only start once you enter a conservatoire to study to become a professional musician.
before that you can enter (voluntarily) competitions and music schools organise concerts where the young musicians can experience performing without being graded.

imo grading is pointless, it doesn't reflect the ability of the musician, just the ability to perform in a very strange artificial environment that has (almost) nothing to do with the performing reality in an ensemble or orchestra.

I think one reason why the exams have a strangehold is that the sheet music music industry in its current form depends on the exam industry.

Mendacious,

The future of music at primary level is pluralism. Children will be exposed to a multitude of genres, with none being privileged above others. There is nothing better or more difficult about classical music or about using the notation developed by 15th centry monks and I think everyone realises this now. The idea of privileging fixed notation stems from the Romantic movement - the creator as unchallengable authority - and Beethoven milked that for all it was worth, and we still haven't got over it.

Your remarks about Telemann and Handel were off-the-cuff but I think they are the true way forward. A child who plays in as many ways as possible with as many other children as possible has the best chance of keeping their musical passion alive. At year 7 level, they should have been exposed to many many instruments and styles. If they have a true passion for classical at that stage then yes, let's get behind them and fundthem properly.

Notation arguments are a distraction. I've done Vivaldi and Clarke so far - cracking tunes, you can choose to learn notation or to memorise or (if you are on bass) to "watch for the changes" or just learn to trust your sense of tonic/root/"home note".

To sum up, I'd rather have fewer violin lessons at primary level, but a higher level of passion and love in the children learning at 11.

And if all this means standards in the CBSO fall slightly, frankly it's a price worth paying. Anyway, life as an orchestral musician is poorly paid and comes with bad working conditions - I'm surprised it's still seen as aspirational.

So tell me then lingle. Just how is a musician to approach, say, a Beethoven symphony without being able to read music? Or do you feel there have been enough performances and recordings of the classical canon by now to do away with the need for any more?

Oh sorry, just seen your last paragraph about orchestral musicians and the CBSO. If that is really how you feel about music then I think we are always going to be talking at cross purposes.

sorry, I got ranty.

I typed a sensible reply, the internet ate it, the kids started shouting, I typed again - much too quickly - and it sound shouty.

can I delete and start again?

ok, starts again.

Our guest said: "the best thing is to create opportunities for your kid to make music with other people. That will raise their game, remind them what an absolutely amazing thing music is, and cause them to learn stuff from the others...If the group music making goes well, your kid will be determined to up their own game before the next group session!"

If we do this, using any learning style the kids offer us, then all will be well. We may start with Smoke on the Water, we may start with Abba, we may start with Vivaldi- what we don't do is tell the children one kind of music is better or more "proper" or even more difficult than others.