Webchat with Reg Bailey, author of the government report on sexualisation of children, Friday 10th June, 11am to 12pm

[KatieMumsnet]

Reg Bailey, chief executive of the Mothers' Union and author of the government?s Let Children be Children, is joining us for a webchat this Friday, 10 June, 11am to 12pm.

Following our Let Girls be Girls campaign , launched early in 2010, we?ve been asking retailers to commit not to sell products which play upon, emphasise or exploit their sexuality.

The government has now responded to our campaign and Reg Bailey?s report, which included these recommendations:

? Retailers to ensure magazines with sexualised images have modesty sleeves.

? Music videos to be sold with age ratings.

? Procedures to make it easier for parents to block adult and age restricted material on internet.

? Code of practice to be issued on child retailing.

? Create a single website for parents to complain to regulators.

? Change rules on nine o'clock television watershed to give priority to views of parents.

Please join us live to ask Reg about the report, or if you can't make it, please post your question here.

"Clearly a 17 year old boy is more likely to expect sex from a relationship than a 13 year old."

Really? I recently had dates with a 36 year old, a 40 year old and a 28 year old none of whom expected sex. I'm pretty sure they all wanted it (and in one case, he got it ) but none had an expectation of it, because they didn't have a sense of entitlement to it. If 17 year olds nowadays expect sex, particularly from 13 year olds, then I suggest that their attitudes are very close to those of rapists. But as it happens, I don't agree with you, I don't think the majority do have those sort of rapey attitudes, I don't think they do expect sex - they just hope for it, which is fair enough.

"Your post implied all boys were problematic and needed teaching."

No it didn't. It did imply taht boys need teaching, of course they do, everyone does. Do you not agree that boys need teaching? Do you think only girls need teaching? Why do you keep focusing on what girls do, rather than engage with the topic of how we can bring up boys to not expect sex from girls as an automatic right?

You're clearly twisting the meaning of 'expect' there. But still, a 17 yr old is more likely to hope and imagine that he will be allowed to have sex with his gf than a 13 year old. And (say, 15 yr old) girls often pick that 17 year old for a bf, then complain about being pressured or that he has those expectations. That's the point, and you've not addressed it.

And again, you've curiously lopped the end of that quote so you can answer 'yes, all kids need teaching, don't you agree?' But you suggested that boys needed special teaching how not to act and think like borderline rapists, which you also suggested was how they think and act at the moment. Which was offensive and wrong-headed male-bashing imo. I am not focusing on 'how girls are' for any other reason than to balance the lazy 'boys are all bad, girls are innocent victims' schema I saw being trotted out, and to inject some reality into the debate.

I will consider myself as having failed as a mother if my son ever "expects" sex as a teen.

I agree, I think children of both sexes need to be taught respect for themselves and their partner .

Why are you so determined to see man bashing where it doesn't exist Catmilk?

Why are you so hostile to the idea that we ought to teach boys that sex isn't an entitlement and that they do not have the right to coerce a girl into having sex?

why are you so determined to focus on the behaviour of girls and ignore the behaviour of boys?

a third of teenage girls sexually abused in relationships

girls bullied into sexting

good article here linking to lots of facts and figures about sexual bullying

There is a serious lack of engagement with teaching boys respect for girls. Luckily, most boys are being educated by their parents to have respect and don't coerce girls into sex, but it is not a tiny minority who are doing so, it is a significant minority and burying our heads in the sand and pretending that we can just teach girls to be a bit more assertive, without addressing the attitudes which lead to this state of affairs, preferring to shout about man-bashing when people raise the issue, will not make it go away.

And I don't understand what you mean by me twisting the meaning of expect.

Expect means ... well it means expect. As opposed to hope. In English, unlike Spanish, we have two different words for it. What did you mean by expect?

And I agree that a lot of older teenage boys go out with younger girls, precisely because they are ever so slightly scared of girls their own age - they may themselves not be ready for sex and this hyper-macho culture of telling them that they're supposed to be voracious predators, is actually quite frightening for a normal teenage boy, particularly when they're not sure that they'll be "good at it". Being with a 13 year old who is not expecting sex, is actually a bit of a relief for some of them.

'A 17 yr old is more likely to expect sex in a relationship'

'Expect' meaning 'reckon will happen', 'would imagine is likely', even ' definitely think will happen'

Which a 17 yr old is MORE LIKELY to think than a 14 yr old. Mostly.

'Expect' did not mean in this instance - 'better happen or there will be trouble'. But you knew that already.

Yes that's true. The point I am making is that the 15 yr old will not usually have a gun to her head to go with that 17yr old instead of her safer and legal peers. In fact as girls generally have more power in the dating game at that age, the 17 yr old male may find all his female peers have chosen 20 yr old partners, which may be why he is risking being branded a rapist by sleeping with his 15 yr old gf (who may or may not develop and mature earlier than her male peers, depending on who you believe or what point they are trying to prove at the time).

Ha, because the wrong answer would make anything I say less true? Or you are just as innocently curious as you seem? I'm a 68 year old man, do what you feel best with that x

Well actually, he's risking being a rapist Catmilk, that's why he would be branded one.

Why do you not think he should be educated that he shouldn't coerce girls into sex when they are not ready for it? Have you looked at any of the links, for example, the one which says that a third of girls are coerced into sexual activity before they are ready for it? Does that not bother you? Do you still think it is a tiny minority of boys who are dangerous? D'you think it's all the same tiny little clique who are coercing this third of girls into unwanted sex? And do you think it is totally unnecessary to educate boys about this issue?

Hi reg, I am one hundred percent behind the need to change attitudes to the sexualisation of girls, i think it will be essential to get the media behind you, especially the tabloids and the magazines such as more etc , have you had a response from them regarding the report? Have they been approached to see if they can in anyway change their attitudes towards women/young girls? Can they in anyway be educated to see how much a part they play in all of this?

thanks

I'm leaving this thread with the reminder that what brought me into it (apart from my early questions for Reg Bailey) was to counter the offensively untrue idea that teenage boys need teaching not to think like rapists. I'm not fighting any more straw men about what the word 'expect' means or defending any putative 17yr old rapists. xxx

So you would prefer that we teach them to think like rapists then, Catmilk?

Righto.

Have a read of this, you'll enjoy it. Teenage boys delighted with current levels of media sexualisation

Lay off the boy-bashing. I have a teen boy and a near-teen boy. They are the victims, too, of the horribly intense commercialisation of childhood, of which the sexual objectification the report is supposed to target is an offshoot.

No, I don't think the emphasis should be put on girls to 'just say no' in the Dorries manner. But neither do I think that my sons are the enemy here. I think that both boys and girls should be taught the self-confidence and mutual respect to consult their own desires and concerns about sex.

I think the report is a failure, because it lacked an explicitly anti-consumerist approach, and an explicitly feminist approach (one that tackles sexual objectification not 'sexualisation', one that gives weight to the myth of empowerment that is sold to children when they are encouraged to accessorise their sexuality in line with porn culture).

Without those guides it has just been an exercise in mild moral panic, and one that is going to end up with us all looking to the advertising industry and retail organisations to police their own voracity, much like the 'Drink Aware' cop-out in the alcohol industry.