Facebook Live about talking to kids about staying safe from abuse with NSPCC

[RachelMumsnet]

We’re running a facebook live with NSPCC about talking to kids about staying safe from abuse. The NSPCC have developed programme called Speak out. Stay safe delivered in primary schools across the UK. Volunteers visit schools where they run workshops and assemblies to teach children how to stay safe from abuse and what to do if they have any concerns. The NSPCC are also running a campaign called PANTS that teaches parents how to talk to young children about staying safe from sexual abuse in an age appropriate and non-scary way.

Lidl say: "'Last year Lidl UK employees voted to make the NSPCC their new national charity partner for a three year period. During this period, this partnership will aim to raise £3 million to keep 1 million primary school children safe through the NSPCC’s Speak out. Stay safe programme. This vital programme helps to empower a generation of children with the knowledge they need to stay safe. With at least 2 children in the average primary school class having suffered abuse or neglect, it’s vital that the NSPCC has the resources to visit primary schools across the UK to teach children that abuse is never OK."

Join the NSPCC live next week on Thursday 30 August at 12.30pm on Mumsnet Facebook or post up a question on this thread that we will put to the NSPCC during the live stream. We’ll link to the stream next week on this thread.

[LemonJello]

I wonder if they thought there would only be a few which they could ignore? Perhaps they haven’t understood the scale of disquiet.

[OwThatsGottaHurt]

I was lurking- looking forward to the responses of these important questions. The silence is deafening

[EmpressOfSpartacus]

I wonder if they thought there would only be a few which they could ignore? Perhaps they haven’t understood the scale of disquiet.

You know, if MNHQ hadn't seen that we'd started posting on the thread & taken it out of active, there might have been enough other questions on there that they could ignore us, or just give a vague token answer to one of our questions & move on. It's happened in the past.

But as it was, nobody else really noticed the thread, so it was more or less solidly about this & they couldn't have avoided it.

[tiredandweary]

The NSPCC have gone along with the party line - all the well funded trans groups telling them that this is what being trans means and this is what must happen. Zero engaging of intellect, knowledge or experience for fear of being seen of as transphobic.
And now, what do they do? How can they admit to being complicit in eroding the safety of children? In promoting the grooming and gaslighting of children? In telling children that they have no right to boundaries. Goes against everything that the NSPCC stands for - but still they did it! An almighty epic unbelievable betrayal of children. So of course they can't discuss it.

But somehow they are going to have to. As the grim nature of some of those taking advantage of and sheltering under Stonewall's bloody trans umbrella becomes evident, someone is going to have to stand up and say:
'On reflection, we've gone a bit too far in our attempts to be kind and inclusive. The safety of children and women - let alone their right to privacy and dignity - should not have been up for negotiation. Let's put this right'.

(feeble optimism)

[RachelMumsnet]

Thanks for waiting; we've been thinking about what to do.

The focus of this Facebook Live was intended to be the NSPCC's Speak out. Stay safe and PANTS campaign and how to speak to children about keeping safe. Because the questions here are so focused on gender identity, the feeling is that the NSPCC campaign itself and the NSPCC's specific safety messages are unlikely to get much of an airing. As a result we came to the decision not to run the stream live on Facebook, although we will be recording some content with the NSPCC on the original topic which should go live either later today or tomorrow.

We’re sorry to all those who were waiting to put questions as part of the live event. We recognise many of you feel strongly about safeguarding in relation to issues around gender identity, but this was never intended to be the focus of this activity.

However, in view of the questions asked in this thread, we asked the NSPCC for a statement:

The NSPCC doesn’t consider there to be specific child protection concerns in relation to trans-inclusive policies. Any space and activity involving children should have strong safeguarding policies in place, with a proper risk assessment to minimise the risks to all children involved. And every adult working with children should undergo rigorous safety checks and vetting procedures to ensure that young people are safe in their care.

Trans young people are at particular risk of physical, sexual and emotional abuse from peers. This can heighten the risk of abuse by adults as children turn online for support and access to networks of those sharing similar views and feelings. There should be high-quality, statutory relationships and sex education, alongside strong school safeguarding policies, to ensure that all children are kept safe in schools.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

FFS

[CertainHalfDesertedStreets]

But as it was, nobody else really noticed the thread, so it was more or less solidly about this & they couldn't have avoided it.

I sort of don't agree. Anyone could have posted here. It's in chat. If people are asking these questions it's because these are the questions on people's minds.

[EmpressOfSpartacus]

So they do think that boys' feelings matter more than girls' safety.

Thanks RachelMN.

[AsAProfessionalFekko]

The NSPCC doesn’t consider there to be specific child protection concerns in relation to trans-inclusive policies

What's that ripping sound? The sound of direct debit mandates being torn up?

[BeyondAnOmnishambles]

🤐

[BeyondAnOmnishambles]

"Trans young people are at particular risk of physical, sexual and emotional abuse from peers"

Don't suppose they gave you any references for comments like the above, with the statement...?

[tiredandweary]

Thank you RachelMumsnet. Between a rock and a hard place.

I am surprised that the NSPCC do not recognise trans groups training teachers to maintain confidentiality ( in defiance of Working Together) as a problem. That's a key aspect of staying safe. Given that trans groups are specifically setting trans children outside safeguarding I am amazed that the NSPCC has no comment to make.

Safeguarding children is stressful and challenging and involves at times being prepared to consider the unthinkable. I am beyond disappointed that the NSPCC is unable to recognise what is happening to children at the moment.

[Tunataka]

You just cant separate issues out. The self id question is FUNDAMENTAL to all aspects of safeguarding. It can very potentially undermine all campaigns

[Gileswithachainsaw]

How can they be safe in schools when boys and girls are using the same toilets and teachers can't follow them in there due to having to be with the rest of the class?

Are they fund raising for toilet monitors?

[IAmLurkacus]

The pants campaign is all about ensuring children have the language to talk about what has happened to them. All this ‘some women have a penis’ crap is in direct contradiction to that and is a valid area for discussion.

We are trying to speak up to keep our children safe. If. Adults are being silenced how the hell are children supposed to speak up?

I repeat this debacle will be referenced in the inevitable public enquiry into how safeguarding children went so horribly, horribly wrong in the first quarter of the twenty first century.

Mumsnet and NSPCC you are both complicit, own it.

[SturdyEarmuffs]

We recognise many of you feel strongly about safeguarding in relation to issues around gender identity, but this was never intended to be the focus of this activity.

Can I again draw attention to Datun's post at 9:57am yesterday, which WAS specifically about the very topic NSPCC want to talk about and publicise. It's appalling that the NSPCC have dodged this & that response highlights yet again the dismissal of real, genuine concerns for girls safety & safeguarding.

The NSPCC has said absolutely nothing to support their view that trans policies don't pose safeguarding risks - how about they actually come on & explain that, answer the bloody questions & demonstrate exactly how girls can SPEAK OUT & STAY SAFE when they are supposed to accept they aren't allowed their own right to privacy, dignity & safety & are labelled bigots if they do SPEAK OUT to STAY SAFE.

What an appalling position for NSPCC to take on this. They won't come here & defend that statement because they can't. Absolute cowards.

[HermioneWeasley]

Cowards. You absolute cowards. Particularly in the light of the David Challenor case.

Lax safeguarding approved by you WILL be abused. And we will remember that you didn’t have the courage to stand up for children.

Cowards.

[MrsFogi]

There are no words......
It is very clear from the questions that the number one safeguarding is fast becoming how to deal with the impact of self-identification.
If the NSPCC choose to ignore this so be it - they will need to answer for that in years to come. But, they will not be getting a penny of my money going forward.
And, I will be redoubling my stickering efforts and given the wall of denial from pretty much every organisation I suggest every gc MNer does so too.

[MrsFogi]

Perhaps a thread to screenshot and send to newspapers/journos who have published gc pieces in the past?

[R0wantrees]

The NSPCC doesn’t consider there to be specific child protection concerns in relation to trans-inclusive policies

I don't understand this statement.

There are specific child protection issues with some trans-inclusive policies. That is a matter of established fact.

[Mamaryllis]

Can you ask them to answer Datun’s specific question regarding their Stay Safe/ PANTS campaign then?
The NSPCC is in thrall to lobbying groups whose aim is to remove protections from girls and young women. Who on earth is in charge there these days?

[FermatsTheorem]

The NSPCC doesn’t consider there to be specific child protection concerns in relation to trans-inclusive policies. Any space and activity involving children should have strong safeguarding policies in place, with a proper risk assessment to minimise the risks to all children involved. And every adult working with children should undergo rigorous safety checks and vetting procedures to ensure that young people are safe in their care.

Trans young people are at particular risk of physical, sexual and emotional abuse from peers. This can heighten the risk of abuse by adults as children turn online for support and access to networks of those sharing similar views and feelings. There should be high-quality, statutory relationships and sex education, alongside strong school safeguarding policies, to ensure that all children are kept safe in schools.

Which is all very nice but doesn't answer the question my 10 year old son asked after watching the BBC's "I am Leo" film the other day. He said that he would feel uncomfortable getting changed for e.g. swimming (they have communal changing rooms) with an individual with a female body, and asked what he should do if the issue arose at school.

So - what does he do, NSPCC? Ignore the pants rule and get naked in front of a member of the opposite sex when he doesn't feel comfortable doing so? Or ask the teacher if there's somewhere he can change separately and get vilified as a transphobe (which rather runs against the suggestion that all children should be safe from bullying)?

[BeyondAnOmnishambles]

Between looking at this and the bilge published by Caroline Lucas today (précis: man rapes child, politician covers it up; main problem is transphobia), I am honestly speechless.

[Spinderelle]

As a charitable organisation set up to protect children, the NSPCC are no longer fit for purpose.

How do these people sleep at night? Knowing they are throwing girls under a bus?

[R0wantrees]

Detailed analysis of two trans-inclusive school toolkits (Allsorts and Transgender Trend) by Claire Graham:

**Allsorts Toolkit is widely used by UK schools.
(It has been subject to challenges in Wales and Scotland recently.)