Campaign to stop retailers selling products that prematurely sexualise children - let us know what you think...

[JustineMumsnet]

So quite a few folk on the MN campaigns thread mentioned that an issue they'd like to see MN get involved in is the premature sexualisation of children.

So we've put together an outline for a potential campaign, along the lines of Let girls be girls, summarising the issues and some of the research. The aim is to encourage retailers to make a simple, public pledge that commits them to selling only products which do not sexualise children.

Please do have a read and let us know your thoughts, ideas, suggestions.

Thanks.
MNHQ

Justine, can we have some feedback on our feedback?

I think Mucha's call for an action plan is right.

Yes - sorry for delay in feedback - been a bit snowed - will have a look today...

Mucha - some VERY good points indeed. I'd support your call for positive action to put pressure on retailers etc rather than negative ranting (I can do that til the cows come home, but it's not going to get much done). I also agree that although this debate focuses on girls it has a HUGE effect on boys and the way they relate to girls/women so it's about children and the erosion of childhood and the way we as a society VALUE children and childhood or don't... ??

David Cameron in the London Evening Standard (read it on the train today . . . ) quoted as saying "I'll Stop Shops Sexualising Children for Gain." Must be reading Mumsnet.

Thanks for all the input folks. It's been top feedback, as expected.

Here are the main points that have been raised specifically about this campaign:

1. We need to define our terms a bit more
2. It's not just about girls it's about women
3. We should talk to/align with Object/pinkstinks about the good work they're doing
4. We need to address parents and the issue of why they buy this stuff as well as retailers

If we address the above our reading of this thread is that a decent majority are in favour of MN addressing this issue though there is a significant minority who think there are other, better causes (nb this campaign would by no means excludes others it's just a start) and a few who believe any type of centrally-organised campaign is, by definition, flawed.

We will move ahead and try to address the points above and draw up a letter to the retailers over the next day or two but we fully acknowledge that it may well be there is insufficient tailwind behind this particular issue to take it further than the debate on here. Either way just having the debate on here, I think, is informative, and useful.

Cheers,
MNHQ

its awful. ive seen little undwired padded training bras, and thongs even. its quite sick really. but then you get the likes of katie holmes putting her child in heels. in a copycat world that is celebrity obessesed is it any wonder that our kids are being forced to dress up and grow up too soon.

This is really important I agree. It covers a lot of things - gender stereotypings that mean a girl thinks she isn't allowed to pick up anything blue, or a boy anything pink. It means buying clothes that are unisex if you want them to be (and being able to hand them down!) and to be offered more interesting colours anyway; the division into pink/blue sides of the store is a real shock first time. I don't want solider camouflage or weapon motifs (sorry Boden) on boys' clothes and I don't want pseudo sexworker clothes for girls - nor overgirly fluffy either. I don't want adverts on tv geared to sub-adult toys (make-up and fashion dolls) nor to be honest the kids-time ads geared at their mothers, all about make-up and weight loss. It's not just advertisers - I wrote once to CBeebies asking why their trailers showed boys climbing trees while the girls giggled in the tent below. No reply... Anyway now Mumsnet is listened too perhaps there is hope for your campaign. Thanks!

Interesting thread. There are a lot of issues here. I only have boys, but often am relieved cause the things available for girls and the images presented etc horrify me and I don't know how I'd cope. Now that our patriarchal society has mostly gone and girls aren't protected so much they are very out there on their own quite young trying to figure it all out themselves and get hurt. They are sexualised from such an early age that they are not being prepared at all.
Also this stuff is sending the wrong messages to boys to. When my 4 year old comes home saying nippy nappy girls, I get so cross, where and how have you learnt or picked that message up?
How about a unisex clothing line? Pink was traditionally the colour for boys last century and I do get frustrated by the limited colours and styles for boys.
Advertising to under 16's I just think should be banned, it is wrong to market to this group, it is banned in Norway for instance. For example I know instantly if my son is on ITV cause within moments I get....I need one of those, and I need one of those, and that's for girls you want that.....how does he know and choose and the 'girls' things advertised are totally cringy.
There are differences in what girls and boys like and that is inevitable, go to any nursery and toddler group and the craft table will invariably be mostly attended by girls. We can celebrate these differences and nourish their different interests, but as a society we shouldn't be reinforcing them and precluding girls from being tower builders and boys from being artists and makers then they both sexes just lose out.
I will do my level best to instil my boys with respect for girls, but it's going to be hard and parents of girls I don't envy you it's a real worry.
I'd back anything.

Has anyone worked out how to define this yet? Everyone knows what they mean, but can you put it into words that would go into a law.

I suppose you could demand that all shops that sell boys/girls clothes stocked exactly the same items in blue and pink, but where does that leave someone who wanted purple? and you'd have to force manufacturers to make them and then force customers to buy them or the shops would go broke.

'Sexy' is a matter of opinion so to be on the safe side you might have to make all skirts ankle length and thick and all tops cover from wrist to neck and shapeless. (would ballet clothes be banned?)

That's oversimplifying a bit but I don't see how you can do it at all.

Maybe easier to force an identical uniform on all kids until they are adult for home and school.

I don't think you can really make anything law, but you can make things more unisex.

If you look at the toys and clothes available in Europe for instance, they seem less gendered. There are toys, can I mention brands? That are loved by both sexes yet we don't see them on UK toy shop shelves so much, I have to go out of my way to find them. Red is a nice unisex colour for instance, which is Europe is more dominant in clothes and toys, little ovens and so on being red/neutral rather than pastels?

I totally agree. Kids should be allowed to be kids, not be forced into mini adulthood when they're far too young physically and emotionally.

I would support such a campaign!!
Nicola

Marking place will support campaign

Hmmm....I feel in two minds about this one as well... I agree with Moondog/earthstar/etc.

I think that the sexualisation of women is the problem: a massive, massive problem. This is going to filter down to young girls because womanhood is what they aspire to.

When I was a young girl Samantha Fox was the big thing, and there were ads in girl's magazines for products that would make you put on weight...

But these days everything is about women = decoration for men's titillation. Last week 7 year old DD watched Blue Peter for the first time after nagging me because her friends watch it. It featured a segment where an 8 year old was rewarded for looking after her family by having a day trip to visit the "best band in the world!" the Saturdays. The next day, the Saturdays were stripping off in the Mail. How fucking depressing is that?

Perhaps we should campaign for role models for 8 year old girls that haven't posed naked for FHM or starred in porn films.

Girls clothing is generally, I imagine, bought by their mothers: if there is a market for it, it will be made, and it will sell. Making it prohibited might just encourage people to buy MORE of it as an edgy statement. If mothers can't see that it's bloody STUPID, then I'm not sure we can do much about that.

We also don't agree about what's bad and what isn't: I don't find a fat toddler in a bikini inappropriate. Likewise, my DD has a pair of high heels - that she uses for ballroom dancing exams . I don't think of those as sexy either.

I wouldn't want to piss on the idea, but I'm just not sure what the aims and objectives are, really.

The pink stinks campaign is good because its objectives are to show little girls that they have CHOICE and to give them alternative options and to celebrate proper women role models. I think that a campaign which offers an alternative tends to come across better than a campaign which might come across as trying to reduce already popular options. Mumsnet Thinks Pinks Stinks would be good...

ANYWAY Keep up the good work! I shall look forward to keeping an eye on progress!

blah blah blah my LOOONG and boring opinion arrives two weeks late

morningpaper, I enjoyed your opinion And "Mumsnet thinks pink stinks" has a good ring to it.

Appreciated Justine's compression of the debate too. This leaks into a complex of big messy issues, but that isn't a bad thing.

I would like Mumsnet to campaign for a four-day work week. But that is probably a matter for another thread

maybe it's in the 11 pages I haven't read - but I think you're missing an important target.

One reason everything is sexualised these days is the internet. I can not buy my children blue or pink items, I can give my son dolls and teach my daughter to change a fuse. I can't stop them being affected by internet pornography.

Internet filtering software is too primitive to be of any use. Parents need something far more effective - something that distinguishes between art homework and other sites - and they need it to come with all computers from the start. And there needs to be an education campaign so that people realise just what their children are looking at!

Mumsnet introduced me to terms like golden showers and dragon butter, my children have probably already found them. They have certainly found yaoi, yuri and hentai sites and probably worse. They were introduced to them by schoolfriends whose parents may have no idea what their children are looking at/ reading and writing.

Personally I'd like to see some moral standards being taught at schools too - not leaving children to find their own standards with no guidance. That would include things like why men leaving their children and not seeing them again, for example, is socially undesirable, or why you should work for a living if you can.

I would support it.

This Christmas I learnt a lot as my dd turned 5.

I learnt that unless you have a lot of money and time it's very hard to buy toys/clothes aimed at "little girls".

We walked out of Toys R Us in disgust when we saw the most hideous Bratz doll lounging on a bed with gold sheets in what can only be described as a boudoir. We were looking for a "little girl" doll the type I had as a child,not a baby doll but a child doll- there are very few anywhere.

We ended up buying dd a red headed Gotz Sarah doll that cost a small fortune online after pooling Xmas money from everybody. She had far less but she loves her doll.It has little girl clothes and she plays little girl games with it not " I want to be a TV chef fashion model" but picnics,exploring,hospitals,schools etc.

Now we were lucky enough to get the money from family and we found a fab site(one of about only 3 that sells them). Not everybody is in this position so settle for what they see. I feel a lot of this trash is bought because parents whizz into shops and it's all there is. They don't have the time to search online.

I find the same thing with clothes.Every season I search for nice little girl clothes. Now we are out of toddler sizes it's almost impossible. I search and eventually give up just buying Mini Boden with a few plain things from Next(few & far between),H&M and M&S if I'm lucky. Again I'm lucky that I have the time to do this. If you're busy you can't. Basically I think a lot of parents/grandparents would buy nice "little girl" stuff if it was more readily available.

I wonder if shop owners just simply aren't aware of this. We as mothers are the ones shelling out the money and actually buying the stuff so approaching them with these concerns is a good way to go.

I have been dipping in and out of this thread when I have had time, but have to confess I haven?t read the whole thing. I just want to say I agree wholeheartedly that a campaign is much needed on this matter.

I have often said to my DH that I think stores, manufacturers and advertisers are guilty of ?sexing children?. This, to me, covers not only the premature sexualisation of children through provocative clothing and slogans etc., but also the forced categorising of children into their gender, thereby sexing them into their identity, through ?boys toys/clothes? and ?girls toys/clothes?.

I hope I haven?t missed the point, as I so often do (hence the MN name!) and would love to know if this is what people mean.

If so, why not call the campaign ?stop sexing children??

I appreciate actual definition of campaign aims need to be clarified, just my two-pence worth, for what it?s worth!

CALL TO ARMS!
Haven't had chance to read the whole thread. But the anti-sexualisation message for a campaign is needed. There are some simple steps that we could do that make the point. When a retailer stocks something inappropriate like thong styled underwear, T-shirts with inappropriate sexual messages lets kick up a fuss. Write to the Chief Exec and ask her or him if he would want his daughter dressed in that. I can guess the response (they'll be wrapped up nicely in Boden, thank you). Lets get active, photo the stuff and send it to the papers, stick it on-line. I don't get too het up about everything being in pink (yes, I know its all related, but in my experience a young girl gets to 5 or 6 then won't touch pink) but what is achievable is a complete ban on padded bras, thongs, racy logos, for under 16s. I've seen proper shoes with big heels for 5 year olds (?!?). Its not right and we should speak out. If every Mumsnetter on this thread went to the store manager and complained every time they saw it, we may get somewhere. I remember the days of anti-apartheid campaigning (yes, I'm that old) and not buying stuff from south Africa.....we were moaning to the store managers every week time in time out, buying stuff and returning it just to p**s them off...it was part of a solution that worked .....slow consistent pressure on retailers does work.....they don't like the publicity.....bet even the Daily Mail would support us! Rather than us saying what we don't like lets just get them to justify each and every item every time they stock it. The background to this is that I live in South Africa where 25% of girls first sexual experience is as a result of rape. Yes, there are complex reasons for those horrific numbers in SA but early sexualisation doesn't help. Get it started in the UK and there would be a few of us here who would love to kick something off here.....overtly sexual clothes here are a big problem. Come on, what are we waiting for?....whether its an offical MN campaign or not.....can we just speak out please.

Good post Indaba.

Forgot to add it's the girls of mums who have no money or choice that I feel for. I worry that there will be 2 groups of girls growing up.Those that have a mother who can afford time and money to buy the non sexualisation stuff and those whose mothers can't-not fair.

How about: Just Buy Boden?

This is a VERY important subject indeed.
Anyone who feels passionate or concerned about this would be urged to sign a new petition:-

www.thepetitionsite.com/1/family-moral-movement

Please support this important petition for the rights of our children and to protect 'THE FAMILY' the true heart of any country'
As Mothers we must do all we can to guide our children and families.

Thoughts and experiences would be greatly recieved about this subject.

Also please join www.myspace.com/familymoralmovement

Suporters of The Family Moral Movement:-

Mary-Alice and Chris Pollard of Cornwalls Voice for Animals
www.cornwallsvoiceforanimals.org

Lifescape Magazine
www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3LmxpZmVzY2FwZW1hZy5jb20=

Rock Againt Child Pornography and Abuse

www.myspace.com/rockagainstchildporno

Melita Morgan International Actress/Human/Animal Rights Activist
www.imdb.com/name/nm2769396/

..Campainging to clean up the image of how women are portrayed on the covers of newspapers and magazines, ie soft porn mags such as zoo and Nuts and The Sport and The Star.

Most of these publications are at 'eye leval' of children, which teaches and force feeds them from an early age to 'except' and view women as 'sex objects'.

We believe it fuels the Porn industry by encourging younger people to links to stronger material, as most soft porn titles such as Zoo, Nuts, Maxim etc have no age limits.
It also causes a great secret pain of countless women,who feel 'degraded' and 'de-valued',with many young women and young girls mis-guided to the value of their own sexuality, and self image.
These publications fuel a market of 'false' opportunities of fame and fortune., which leads to an exploitation of young women.

These issues are now starting to be reconised by Goverment too. Please write or email your local M.P.

In a recent survey publicised in The Daily Mail, 100% of young women surveyed stated these images and publications make them angry, offended, and upset.

One-fifth of young males in the same survey admitted the material encouraged them to see women as 'sex objects'

A Tory Education spokesman accused such titles "OF FUELLING THE RISE OF SINGLE PARENT FAMILLIES, AND THE COLLAPSE OF CONVENTIONAL FAMILY LIFE IN GREAT BRITAIN"

We need to target family stores such as Tesco's Sainsbury's and local smaller supermarkets, for their display of magazines and papers such as The Sport, Nuts and Zoo etc, as they are CONSTANTLY displaying these publications in full view of everyone and breaking very moral and official guidelines by having them displayed at childrens eye leval, and on the same shelves as childrens magazines!!!!

These FAMILY based stores and businesses have we believe have
'a duty bound obligation' to clean up their standards of morals if they are to be classed as 'family' stores.

Many parents have complained to The Family Moral Movement, and store managers, that they are having to tolarate having to choose a magazine for their child standing next to men and teenagers browsing through pages of sexual images of women, in such stores as Asda, Tesco, etc.

More polite pressure has to issued to family stores to
please clean up their moral act, and 'make shopping experiences for everyone a more happy experience'.
Complain politely to Store Managers, by writing, face to face or email.

This has to change! Should 'family' supermarkets,stores and petrol stations really be allowed to display in such an in your face way or even sell magazines and publications of this nature?

Films and T.V have to have 'strict' rules about their certification as to its content......so it is believed by The Family Moral Movement, that these publications are governed by the same rules and guidelines.
For example a film has to make the viewer fully aware as to its content,
but we as a Nation,including our children are exposed to images sometimes worse than the contents in some films, as we shop (without choice)on a daily basis.

A Labour M.P for Crosby, who spent a year and a half researching the industry said "I do not want to censor this material but we must do something with the display of such titles"

MP Claire Curtis-Thomas warns "titles such as Nuts, Maxim, Zoo, The Sport etc are little more than porn and should be treated as such."

PLEASE JOIN US!!
please sign the petition and repost

Sexualisation of children starts very young - as soon as we accept that they will be dressed in a colour coded gender divided way. It was / is difficult to find gender neutral clothes for both of my kids (one of each). There is no need until their bodies start to change shape during puberty. Even at Primary age they have a "boys" uniform and a "girls" uniform for school.

Due to the person doing dd's scan she was misidentified as being a boy - so she was bought loads of clothes in blue. As a baby people trated her very differently when she had her "male" clothes on than when she was dressed in pink.

It is not just the "sexy" clothes I object to, but the whole differentiation between boys and girls at such an early age. It seems as if we are allowing our daughters be less valued in terms of what they have to offer society by limiting their role models to popstar / model / princess. None of which engage their brains or allow for a girl to be valued beyond her looks. Worse it gives my son and other males carte blanche to disregard any female who refuses to be judged by these standards.

We need to start celebrating women who are more than their looks.