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MNHQ

Fawcett Commission on Gender Stereotypes in Early Childhood: let MNHQ know what you think

10 replies

RowanMumsnet · 15/05/2019 11:29

Hello

As some of you have spotted, our founder Justine is one of the commissioners for the recently announced Fawcett Commission on Gender Stereotypes in Early Childhood.

We at MNHQ are pleased to be on the panel: over the years Mumsnet users have spoken a lot about how gender stereotypes affect children (and indeed adults), leading to independent campaigns such as Let Toys Be Toys and Mumsnet campaigns such as Let Girls Be Girls. This feels like an opportunity to dig deeper into the issues and hopefully contribute to some policy recommendations that will change the way we (as a society) approach gender expectations for children.

For more info on the Commission from Fawcett's Chief Exec Sam Smethers (including her thoughts on why the commission is concentrating on gender rather than sex) take a look at her recent guest post and discussion.

In advance of the Commission's first meeting, we'd love to have your thoughts on the following:

this outline of 'Eight Things You Need to Know About Sex, Gender, Brains, and Behavior' (co-authored by Prof Gina Rippon who will be presenting to the panel);

the Commission's literature review; and

the Commission's call for evidence.

Look forward to hearing what you think - the meeting is on Tuesday 21 May, so please let us have your thoughts before then.

Thanks
MNHQ

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MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 16/05/2019 10:09

Thanks for all your responses - we know there are really strong feelings about this among lots of MN users.

Before this debate/argument/however you characterise it caught fire, though, Mumsnet users had expressed concerns for years about the effects of gender stereotypes on children. We are hopeful that this commission is a good-faith effort to address the baleful impacts of gender stereotypes on children and on the adults they will grow up into. That's why we are taking part. And the more you can tell us about the specific questions we as commissioners are asked to address, the better we can represent the nuance of your views.

And in a desperate (and quite possibly wrong-headed) attempt to explain why we think the exploration of gender is a legitimate subject for inquiry, here's what Caroline Criado-Perez has to say about it in Invisible Women:

'The female-specific concerns that men fail to factor in cover a wide variety of areas, but three themes crop up again and again: the female body, women's unpaid care burden, and male violence against women... men forget them [in the context of data collection], because men do not have female bodies... Throughout I will refer to both sex and gender. By 'sex' I mean the biological characteristics that determine whether an individual is male or female... By 'gender' I mean the social meanings we impose on those biological facts... One is man-made, but both are real... sex is not the reason women are excluded from data. Gender is... the female body is not the problem. The problem is the social meaning we ascribe to that body, and a socially determined failure to account for it.'

This isn't to pressure any individual to engage with the Commission or the OP - of course it's absolutely your right to express your thoughts about it - but if anyone reading would also like to address the questions in the OP/engage with the Commission's themes we're still interested in hearing those thoughts too.

Thanks
MNHQ

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 16/05/2019 10:27

@WeWantJustice

Another vote for "what is the point?"

If you can't even define what a girl is (and yet doctors have no difficulty in knowing which foetuses to abort because they're the wrong sex) how can you fight gender stereotypes?

When parents are being told that their boy child liking Frozen may be a sign that that child may have been born in the wrong body and not believing that is abusive, how can anyone fight sexist stereotypes?

We expect that the Commission will be absolutely starting from the point that a boy liking Frozen is to be celebrated/tolerated in exactly the same way as a girl liking Frozen - that's the fundamental position behind the Commission's work. And to the extent that any doctors, teachers or other advocates are interpreting a liking for Frozen as evidence of being born in the wrong body, we (as in MNHQ) would absolutely represent to the Commission the MN consensus that that would be nuts.

If MNers know of evidence of gender stereotypes being used by early-years professionals (in any field) in a reductive way then please do flag them up. Also of course any examples of good, careful work being done to unpick gender stereotypes and encourage early-years children to feel confident expressing themselves.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 16/05/2019 12:19

Thanks Empress Wink

Our hope is that the consensus that (in your words) 'gender as a social construct / legal & social ways of disadvantaging women / sex-role stereotypes is a bad thing', combined with the focus on early years, will mean that this Commission can think about the specific harms caused by gender stereotypes without getting into the (frankly) toxic topic of gender self-ID. (Toxic in the sense that it's perceived as being dangerous/difficult to address.) The Commission starts from the premise that gender stereotypes are harmful.

This narrow focus - while it excludes some areas that are strongly contested, to say the least - could mean finding some agreement and constructive ways forward in this specific area, at least, and we at MNHQ think it's worth our time to participate in what feels like a genuine good-faith effort to move the ball towards the goal-line a bit.

On 'women's brains' - have a look at the link in the OP to the neuroscience position: this again is the Commission's starting point - very happy to hear any thoughts about it.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 16/05/2019 12:29

Thanks also Lang (took me so long to post that I missed yours)

On this point:

'You cannot simultaneously fight "gender stereotypes" while accepting "gender identity" as a defining concept of self. Until Fawcett gets the fence splinters out of their arses and choose, anything they do or say will be utterly fruitless. Anything they do or say is undermined before it's even started.'

It's not our job at MNHQ to advocate for Fawcett's position (anyone interested can read Sam Smethers' thoughts in the thread linked in the OP). It's worth saying though that the Commissioners are pretty wide ranging (eg Sarah Ditum is also on the panel) and the recommendations at the end of the work will be a consensus arising from the Commission's work and won't be wholly owned by Fawcett - it will be co-owned by all the commissioners who stay the course and sign off on the final result. In participating in that process, we really want to represent MNers' views - and to do that we need to hear your thoughts.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 16/05/2019 13:45

@JAPAB

I hope this panel manages to stay on track and concentrate solely on the stereotypes themselves without getting into unproven blanket assumptions about trans people.

Yes, noted and thank you - from what we've seen so far, unproven blanket assumptions is specifically what this is supposed to tackle, but absolutely take your point

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 16/05/2019 13:45

@Birdsfoottrefoil

Got stuck on the first question asking about my gender. It would be helpful if instead of asking if I was a ‘woman’ or ‘man’ they instead asked if I was irrational, kind, liked pink, dresses, being seen as a sex object, lower pay, and taking on nearly all the caring role, or whether I was logical, a leader, ambitious, liked science, jeans and cars.

If the survey is annoying you please do have a look at the questions and documents in the OP instead/as well...

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 16/05/2019 13:55

@Birdsfoottrefoil

I didn’t say it was annoying me. But are you saying that wasn’t what the first question was asking? Which sex of stereotypes we identify with?

Sorry, I must confess I hadn't actually linked the Call for Evidence with the survey. Ahem. Please ignore me

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 17/05/2019 09:16

Thanks for all your thoughts and links and references - we will read and digest. @Allison10 as an MN user any thoughts you have about the stuff linked in the OP would be welcome too.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 17/05/2019 09:18

Thanks for all your thoughts and links and references - we will read and digest. @Allison10 as an MN user any thoughts you have about the stuff linked in the OP would be welcome too.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 17/05/2019 11:51

@Allison10 So sorry to read about your assault. We hope you're OK (apologies for sounding pat, but we really do). As other users have said, you might find it useful to seek support on a separate discussion thread.

We know the debate around the accuracy of numbers of assaults, murders, suicide attempts and suicides among trans people is a hot topic but to be honest it also feels like one that we've hosted and continue to host a lot on Mumsnet and it would be really helpful to keep this discussion on topic - the impact of gender stereotypes in early childhood - rather than having it sucked into being a discussion about self-ID.

I'm sure absolutely everyone agrees that any number of violent assaults on trans people is too many, just as any number of suicides of trans people is too many. And that the same goes for all people in general.

Any chance that any further discussion of the figures could go elsewhere? We're really keen to get views from as many MNers as possible on this thread, which won't happen if disappears down this particular tangent (not to suggest the topic isn't important)

Thanks again to those who're posting their thoughts

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