Challenging the use of homophobic language in schools: Mumsnet and Stonewall campaign

[RebeccaMumsnet]

"That's so gay." Um, actually it probably isn't.

It's also something most of us don't want to hear, and it's absolutely something young people shouldn't have to hear in the classroom.
That's why, for Anti-Bullying Week this year, we've teamed up with Stonewall on Gay. Let’s Get Over It, a campaign to provide guidance to schools, parents and young people, and to address the misuse of the word 'gay'.

Mumsnetters talked about the need for the campaign here, and you can get involved in it here.

Do share on Twitter #GetOverIt, Facebook and Google+ - the more people know about the campaign, the more we can challenge unacceptable language and change the culture of our schools. And do feel free to discuss it here too.

Tomorrow, Will Young will be coming into MNHQ for a webchat about the campaign at 12pm - watch active for the webchat thread which will be up later and post your questions to him there.

If a word is used in an way that offends some people I would NEVER let my child use it.

I even stop saying oh my god around MIL even though I swear like a trouper.

around here gay has another meaning .That costs a gay lot of money, It's a gay big bruise you've got there etc

We seem to have been able to stop the semantic shift of "spastic" and "retard" from medical terms to insults...
You think? they have just gone out of fashion.We have 'fucktard' now same derivation as retard.

That's a compltely different, Scottish dialect word spelled "gey". And is a complete red herring.

Presumably you wouldn't have an issue with telling a child not to say "fucktard"?

I've not had much time for Stonewall - their handling of the B in LGB is to add 'bisexual' to the title of documents then ignore totally - but with this campaign they are spot on.

Loads of gay teenagers and adults say they find gay used to mean rubbish very hurtful, and the responses of some teachers worse. Yes words shift, but we've managed to get people to stop using other offensive words in public - spastic, paki - by decent adults taking a stand and not using the word, followed by telling children it is offensive and not to use those words. No reason it couldn't work for 'gay' too.

See, this is what baffles me about these threads.

It's the complete lack of intellectual curiosity in those posters who come on here to tell gay people that they're just wrong. All those children who suffer from homophobic bullying are just wrong. They don't understand linguistics, they don't understand that it isn't used in a mean or bullying way. Wrong.

They never ask: what is your experience, how does it feel, what do you think would help? They don't seem interested in any opinion other than their own. Some even seem to think that knowing things might give their children the gay.

I just don't understand their lack of interest in finding out WHY gay people are all asking for this thing that seems ridiculously pointless to them. Here's an analogy: I'm an old school 80s feminist whose default position is always that gender is a social construct. Then along comes the organised trans community. I have, in all honesty, struggled with the idea that you can be born in the wrong body and I continue to do so. But curiosity, awareness that I don't actually know everything and am sometimes wrong, and sheer human decency mean that I do try to listen with an open mind and an open heart. And I have learned a lot, though I still have questions. I don't rampage onto threads about trans issues and say, "You're wrong! There's no such thing! Get over yourselves, you and your PC nonsense!"

My partner is black, I am white. Quite often she says things about racism that I don't get, or I frankly disagree with. I don't feel I have to say I agree with her if I don't. But I do have a responsibility not to simply close her down. So we talk, I listen, I learn, sometimes I come to see it from her point of view and sometimes I don't. But I wouldn't dream of just telling her she has got it all wrong.

Isn't that what is needed here?

Yes Devora, it is.

What's the phrase? Check your privilege.

Don't understand why gay teenagers might have a problem coming to terms with their sexuality while the word used to describe that sexuality is also used to describe anything crap, rubbish, untrendy?

Well no, but I expect you aren't a gay teenager struggling to come to terms with your sexuality. So until you are, defer to their opinion on the matter.

Using the word "Gay" as a description for something that is a bit shit is hurtful to lots of people. Do you still want to do it and not have it nicely and informatively challenged in schools those of you who don't see what the fuss is all about?
10% of us are estimated to be gay. If it is fine for gay=shit, do we care if 10% of us are made to feel shit? I know I fucking do.

FFS, my DS was 7, when he started doing the "that's so gay" thing. After I explained to him why it wasn't nice and asked "how would you feel?..." he didn't do it anymore. Not at the age of 8, not at the age of 9 and certainly not now at the age of 10 within my hearing. This campaign is about doing that. That's all. No blood need be shed and gay children will have a few less insults thrown at them. It's not too much to ask is it? Or do you want to quote the dictionary at them and teach them to "grow a thicker skin", because we all know how easy that is.

for Devora and NobleGiraffe.

It's like people who complain about political correctness. I have never found anyone who could tell me anything that political correctness stops them doing or saying that is not racist, sexist, disablist, homophobic or just downright rude.

And the others who have decided to be upset that the "lovely old word "gay" " has been taken over by homosexuals.....

The term political correctness has the following political roots. Its objectives were to define what should be orthodox.

"Historically, the term was a colloquialism used in the early-to-mid 20th century by Communists and Socialists in political debates, referring pejoratively to the Communist "party line", which provided for "correct" positions on many matters of politics. The term was adopted in the later 20th century by the New Left, applied with a certain humour to condemn sexist or racist conduct as "not politically correct""

...

"Mainstream usages of the term politically correct, and its adjectival derivatives – “political correctness” and “PC” – began in the 1990s, when right-wing politicians adopted the phrase as a pejorative descriptor of their ideologic enemies – especially in context of the Culture Wars about language and the content of public-school curricula. Generally, any policy, behavior, and speech code that the speaker or the writer regards as the imposition of a liberal orthodoxy about people and things, can be described and criticized as “politically correct”"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

The picture at the top of this thread uses the phrase

"That's so gay!"

Many children use the phrase and do not think they are being homophobic.
Should the sanctions against homophobic language be applied to children who use the phrase and what are the appropriate sanctions and might it one day lead to criminal sanctions?

"Education Secretary Michael Gove yesterday declared war on the ‘utterly outrageous and medieval’ use of the word ‘gay’ as an insult.

He will study current laws to ensure they are ‘properly policed’ and could even ‘sharpen’ them in a bid to stamp out offensive homophobic language."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2357196/Gove-declares-war-use-word-gay-insult.html

On a different topic, why has the term "political correctness" gained such currency?

It is because it is an opposition to attempts to define a political orthodoxy.

At first it was used as a pejorative term by socialists who did not agree with the Communist party line and Communists who wanted to make that party line the orthodoxy.

Then later it was taken up and used pejoratively by right wing politicians who did not agree with the left wing party line and left wingers who wanted to make their beliefs the orthodoxy.

The opposition to political correctness ultimately stems from opposition to an orthodox way of thinking and a wish to be allowed heterodoxy in thought and language.

Read past the first line Claig and you will see what the aims of the campaign are.

Slippery slope warning! Children being asked not to call their friend's new trainers gay leads to man being imprisoned for having the surname Gay despite not being homosexual.

Just like civil partnerships and gay marriage have led to a rash of people marrying their pets.

Great campaign- hopefully it may go as far to 'educate' the kids in my DS2's class who think that its ok to call him a 'ginger queer' because- well he has strawberry blond hair (yes- strawberry blond) and...... because he goes to stage school.

noblegiraffe did you read what Gove was quoted as saying?

"Education Secretary Michael Gove has pledged to clampdown on the use of homophobic language in the school playground.

He told a conference: “It is outrageous and medieval to think that the use of the word ‘gay’ as an insult is somehow acceptable.

“Whether it is Chris Moyles (the former Radio One disc jockey) or anyone else it is wrong and it should be called out.” Moyles was accused of being homophobic after he said he would not accept a telephone ring-tone “because it’s gay”.

Mr Gove, who was addressing the annual education conference of Stonewall - the gay and lesbian rights campaign group, said he would be holding discussions with it to determine whether the existing law outlawing incitement of hatred was being “properly policed” - and that he would be prepare to consider strengthening it if necessary."

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/michael-gove-pledges-clampdown-on-use-of-homophobic-language-in-school-playgrounds-8691132.html

Aargh, DS has suddenly started using "gay" as an insult, and he's 14! I didn't challenge him when he went through a brief phase of using the word when he was at primary school, but I'm jolly well planning to challenge him now, and this thread might give him food for thought. I can't understand for the life of me why it's back in his vocabulary of insults.

I don´t really have time to read all the comments, but what I did read I realised no one has raised a very important issue....... Homophobic language is not just directed at Homosexuals or Homosexual concepts of behaviour. Homophobia is the fear and intolerance of homosexuality or perceived gender behaviour. Words like "Girl" and "Tomboy" are equally homophobic and equally destructive. In a similar way gays and lesbians can be equally homophobic. I like the campaign and the partners but I fear it will confuse all parties as much as raise awareness.

Claig, here are some details about the current homophobic hatred law

www.donharrison.org.uk/2012/03/25/uk-passes-new-law-against-homophobic-hatred/

Is there anything in there that would suggest that should Gove wish to suddenly outlaw improper use of the word 'gay', or prosecute children for playground banter, that this would actually make its way into law?

"The opposition to political correctness ultimately stems from opposition to an orthodox way of thinking and a wish to be allowed heterodoxy in thought and language."

No it doesn't. It stems from ignorant people's wish to be allowed to call a spade a spade, a nignog a nignog and a queer a queer.

I agree with that law

"The new law will, however, “help prevent and tackle acts of serious hatred against individuals defined by reference to their sexual orientation, with a high threshold for prosecutions which must be approved by the Attorney General and heard before a jury.”

"Is there anything in there that would suggest that should Gove wish to suddenly outlaw improper use of the word 'gay', or prosecute children for playground banter, that this would actually make its way into law?"

No, nothing in that law suggests any of that. I think that law covers homophobic abuse.

If the newspapers are reporting on Gove accurately then they seem to be suggesting that he would be "holding discussions with it to determine whether the existing law outlawing incitement of hatred was being “properly policed” - and that he would be prepare to consider strengthening it if necessary" over what may be said in school playgrounds.

Does the law not go far enough?

Claig, the quote doesn't say at all that Gove is considering strengthening the law to police what goes on in playgrounds (does he have the power to strengthen laws unilaterally anyway?). Just that he is going to discuss with Stonewall whether the current law (which is fine) is being properly policed, and then considering strengthening it if necessary. None of that suggests policing playground banter, especially seeing as it is on par with racial hatred laws which are very rarely used, and certainly not against school children.

Besides, Gove made that speech at the start of July. We're nearly at the end of November.

"It stems from ignorant people's wish to be allowed to call a spade a spade, a nignog a nignog and a queer a queer."

Do you believe that that is where the Rt Hon David Cameron's use of the term stems from in his speech of April 11 2011

"We listen to what people want.

We roll up our sleeves.

And we get on with the job

And there is something else that we promised, that is particularly relevant today...

We promised to get rid of the red tape and political correctness that stops people getting on their lives...."

www.conservatives.com/News/Speeches/2011/04/David_Cameron_We_have_an_incredibly_important_few_weeks_coming_up.aspx