could we have a MN campaign around school uniform please?

[overthemill]

based on cost, availability, suitability?

Lots of reasons but the high cost, the monopoly on supply for logo'd stuff and the lack of alternatives for medical needs.

PLEASE MNHQ?

Agree re. ridiculously priced school uniforms. My DS's blazer alone is £100, though I got one for a mere £15 second hand. I bought the entire uniform, including PE stuff, for £100. If I'd bought it new, it would have been around £700.

But: I still don't think it's a thing for a MN campaign. MN surely needs to be very selective about its campaigns, if it wants to be listened to. I don't think uniform is that high on the list of priorities.

The only campaign I would support is one which advocates scrapping the whole wretched system and letting our children dress like individuals not dolls. DD1s school has changed the uniform this year. Instead of wearing her jumper from last year it is now redundant and I have spent £16 on a new colour one. She didn't have to have it now - but a lot of kids will and I won't let her be left out. Parents of year 9 kids had to buy it.

@Oartistic,

You wouldn't say uniform isn't high on the list of priorities if you were struggling to find the funds to pay for it - and with these monopoly suppliers, parents are being forced to pay over the odds. This campaign wouldn't just be about uniforms, it would be about fairness, affordability and equality for parents in times when money is tight and soon to be tighter still. For some families, the cost of uniform will be the deciding factor in what's on the menu for tea - and this is for children going to state schools. It's a scandal and I can't think of a better campaign for MN than this because ultimately this is abuot justice. Please have a little compassion for people at the lower end of the income scale - do they and their children not deserve a fair deal?

pointythings, I am wondering how you know where I am on the income scale? Do I give off wealthy vibes or something?

FWIW, I'm v peeved that both my children's schools have changed the uniforms, which means there will be little or no second hand stock. Sirloin steak will not be on the supper menu if I am spending just short of £2000 on uniform. But I'm still not convinced it's worth a campaign.

I just don't get why we the parents are paying through the nose for school branding when it's just not needed!

@Oartistic,

Actually you don't give out any vibes whatsoever - it's just that having started the thread that triggered this call, and having talked to parents in my area, the impression I get is that this matter actually affects a very large number of parents, if not a majority, and as a die-hard lefty I just resent profiteering. It wouldn't be so bad if schools admitted in their prospectuses that they sourced their uniforms from a sole supplier in order to raise funds for the school - I might even go along with that, though I object to all the polyester shoddiness - but the schools don't even have the basic honesty to admit that this is all about kickbacks, money and corruption.
What REALLY gets me is the way my older DD's school blithely claims that their school uniform supplier is 'such good value for money' - it just boggles the mind.
I also worry about social selection by the back door - keep uniform costs high to keep the riff-raff out - and in the state system that just shouldn't happen. As it happens I can just about afford to buy enough to get by - but I worry about families who are having to survive on less than my family income, which is actually pretty OK - and how they are going to cope with this.
I know all the arguments about uniforms promoting discipline and performance - though there is no peer-reviewed scientific evidence for these arguments - but I fail to see why a straightforward dress code (with sew-on logos for all) won't serve.
But feel free to disagree, of course.

Exactly! I've paid out £60 for dd1 - new jumper, 1 pair of trousers, school shoes and trainers, tie. I've paid out exactly nothing for dd2 whose enlightened primary doesn't have a uniform. Clearly I will have to but her clothes and shoes at some point - but of my choice and spread through the year. I don't think her education suffers from it and I don't think dd1's education is any better because of the uniform - so what is it for???

actually it is creepign in at dds primary school. they were pretty lax about jumpers cardigans. but are now logo only, and logo shirts for p/e.
its a slippery slope.
dd was even told off for wearing a shop brought cardigan.
but at senior school even the polo shirts are logo'd, i paid £75. for ds 4 years ago, 2 jumpers 2 shirts, rugby socks, shorts, shirts.. and he lost a jumper in the first week!

he and dd manage with one jumper each now.

This is definately an issue that needs some fuss made about it - schools do routinely ignore govt guidelines re no monopoly. We're stuck with one shop which is owned by an insane Fawlty-esque nutter and who bring incompetence to dizzying new heights. And of course they can charge what the fuck they like.

Government guidance is that schools should provide a range of suppliers. My understanding is that schools or retailers that have exclusive contracts with suppliers might be subject to enforcement action under Chapter I of the Competition Act 1998 and that Governing Bodies should ensure that any uniform chosen is widely available in high street shops and other retail outlets, rather than from a sole supplier.

The Local Government Association?s advice is that uniform items should all be available from a minimum of two different suppliers, not counting the school itself, school symbols and logos should be available as sew-on patches and parents should be given opportunities to buy and sell second hand uniform from other parents.

Can you tell I feel strongly about this :o?

I do support you (we've just forked out for dd's secondary school uniform, very ouch). However, I feel the schools would then only wack on other charges to replace what they lose on the uniforms.

I think it has become quite ridiculous and elitist. IMO school uniform should be scrapped altogether.

As another poster said, we should let our DCs dress as individuals.

Ah, pointythings, in that case you are a die-hard lefty talking to a die-hard Tory, which could explain the difference of opinion.

But as it happens, I do agree with you re. simple uniforms with a sewn on badge. As it happens, my DCs go to private schools (one on a scholarship), so expensive uniform goes with the territory. That really, really bugs me, though, as I also went to a private school for 13 years where it was perfectly ok - nay, expected - to buy a blazer/jumper in M&S/JL and stitch a badge on. It was also fine to buy skirts in wherevershop, so long as they were generally the right colour and design. So I also say Grrrrrr to private schools who think they can get away with it when, in fact, lots of parents struggle to pay the fees, never mind the PE kit bill. But, again, that's a very different argument.

Northern Lurker - there are several reasons for school uniforms such as: ensuring that some kids have at least one decent set of clothes,ensuring that they don't get bullied for not wearing the latest designer trainers, so that they an be identified when misbehaving outside school, so that truants can be easily spotted.

I also think don't bloody well bother with uniforms.

But if we ARE going to have uniforms in schools, they should be available from a minimum of 3 shops, or just generic uniform as available from Tesco or anyweher, with badges to be sewn on if necessary. But then the buggers will charge £25 for a badge.

I think it is a VERY appropriate MN campaign, tbh. Like I said I can easily afford £25 for a jumper, however I recognise that not all parents can, plus it's the bloody principle of the matter anyway.

Perhaps the coalition can get Tesco to buy into the new academy schools as a partner, then we could all just buy cheap uniforms with the Tesco logo on.

ooh please let's not have tesco sponsoring school uniforms!

I believe distinctive school clothing (uniform) promotes all manner of bad things but also appreciate that kids have to wear something to school. Why not every school in the land have grey as the base colour, white polo shirts/or white shirt and a colour of cardigan/sweatshirt of their choice that can promote the school's identity? That way you can get jumper from wherever and sew on the badge (and i'll do it for anyone who cannot sew!).

I think it's a campaign issue because it does indeed get to the root of difference, fairness and equality of opportunity.

Hassled, how do parents get the competition act 1998 to be enforced?

I e-mailed the Office of Fair Trading about my DS's school and have heard zilch back.

I don't have the first clue, I'm afraid, and I wish I did. In my case I did the research and emailed the Head and Chair of Govs of DS2's High School, telling them my findings in the hope that they'd think "Bloody hell - there's the Competition Act 98 and we're not following guidelines at all; better get our acts together pronto". But in fact they did nothing whatsoever.

But I'm still on the case and will be back in touch with them . It's complicated by the fact I'm Chair at another school, and there's a bit of a Chair's mafia - we all know each other. I can't afford to annoy the High School Chair, but equally I feel very strongly indeed about this :o.

And on the subject of uniforms per se, I don't have a problem - I see them as a great equalizer. None of that fretting about whether you're wearing the coolest jeans or the current trainers. But they must be affordable and subject to the same competition as anything else you buy.

I think you need to campaign first to the school governors. Tell them how much it costs to kit out a child from scratch (chances are they have no idea) and ask them how it fits with their adherence to the admissions policy (that no parent should feel they cannot send their child to a school because of the prohibitive cost of uniform); every child matters; and ensuring diversity ito socio-economic status.

You could look here for detailed info on what the governing body should be doing. Also, they are accountable, and you have the right to question how they have reviewed their suppliers, how many suppliers they looked at, what profit (if any) the school are receving from the supplier.

Parent power in this case is far more relevant and will get better results than a MN campaign.

I disagree shongolo.

Parent power depends on motivated parents at individual schools. People have been complaining about this issue for years and guidelines have been in place for years. Strongly motivated parents have been writing letters to governors for years.

But still it goes on. Because the governors know that by stalling, eventually the most motivated of parents will give up.

Hassled - I totally disagree about uniforms being a great equaliser.

yes, they may be an equaliser within the school, however even if the kids where a uniform there are other criteria by which they categorise each other - what bags they have, what hair gel they use, what carrier bags they put their PE kit in (I remember carrier-bag oneupmanship when I was at school).

However, more importantly, uniforms are great DIVIDERS outside the school. We all know that the senior school with blazers is seen as 'better' than the senior school with polo shirts and jumpers. We all know that the kids with the boaters go to the private school.

I think uniform should be abolished to be honest, but at the very least we should not have people paying £££ for NYLON uniforms for state schools.

Getorfmoiland has it spot on imo.

My main issue with uniform is that it provides a whole field of pettiness with which to sour pupil/teacher relationships [old goth emoticon]

Even with regulation uniform, it's pretty obvious who is wearing handmedowns and who is kitted out anew each term. With non-regulation uniform, it's even more obvious (I remember girls wearing skirts from Hobbs). I remember the carrier bag thing, to.

As I think I'm in a tiny minority though, I would support moves to prevent schools from demanding ridiculously overpriced uniforms.

HerBeatitude I can see where you are coming from. But if you feel really strongly about this issue, then use the policies of the school to force the issue out into the open.

As a parent, you have the right to see any policy and most governing body and committee minutes.

Ask for the minutes of the meetings at which the uniform issue was discussed. (Do not let them fob you off with "theres confidential information in the minutes" because any clerk worth his/her salt will not have put anything personal in there. Personal stuff should be held seperately, and no child is ever named in minutes)

You also have the right to ask for, and get, information on the profit made by the school either via a 3rd party supplier, or direct from the school. There is clear guidance that schools should not be making a big profit from the sale of uniform.

You should ask for a copy of the schools "best value" policy (ie a policy on how it goes to tender, how it chooses suppliers) and ask how it applies to supply of uniform. (Ask when the supplier was last reviewed, who else was asked to bid for the role, and ask to see details if available. Ask what steps the GB are taking to provide competative choice for parents)

You could ask that the governing body survey the parents in the school to determine what parents feel is reasonable. You should speak to the parent governors and ask them to take it up in the next meeting.

ANd then ask to see the minutes.

Raise it as a formal complaint. Every school must have a complaints policy. The normal process is Head > Chair of governors > clerk to governing body (and therefore governing body) and then, if you feel (and can prove) that the school is being unreasonable, the ombudsman or the secretary of state for Education, Michael Gove.

You could also speak to the LEA and ask their advice on this, especially if you feel that the uniform policy is causing financial hardship for your family. Many LEAs have a hardship fund to help buy uniforms. If they get a number of requests from one school,you better believe they are going to have words with the school...

Afaik dd2's school has practically no problem with clothes related bullying - because the children are used to seeing each other in their own clothes from reception upwards. If all schools did this from 4-18 I think we would actually reduce the current one upmanship that takes place with shoes etc. There will always be some bullying - but if everybody is wearing v different things you make it that much harder for any one thing on any one person to be made in to a problem.