TTTTT

[ladymuckbeth]

Here we go. More unexpurgated chat about our darling angels, all of whom are gifted and have exceptionally calm and admirably-coping parents.

[AtLongLast]

I didn't realise Trunkis are ride-ons too - extra cool!

Good to hear your Mum is taking it easy Cerubina. Has she had any more info about the op - is it still going to be not keyhole surgery?

How's E now LadyM?

Dp was very surprised that I'd gotten rid of baby clothes. It is so not me. I put them in one of those charity clothing recycle things though. None of it was fantastic quality & has had a fair bit of wear. I decided to do it before I thought too hard about it but did have a big pang of sadness on driving past it. I do still have fluffy suits / sleeping bags too.

I need to ebay! Have never sold anything there & it scares me a bit. I will start with `local collection only' on the jumperoo. Dd hasn't had nearly as much use out of it as the boys did.

Ds2 had another meltdown / arms out of carseat harness episode on the way home from nursery today cos dp dared to put him in the back seat . Supposed to be going out for the day with them tomorrow & it's made me a bit wary...

[ladymuckbeth]

Yes, although I hope the girls get better at riding on them or that they become more stable when full of their crap stuff, because they seem to fall over the top of them when driving them around the house at the moment

E's a bit better today thanks ALL although still hasn't eaten anything solid - 36 hours now since she's had an appetite. Dropped her off at nursery this morning, think I'm going to be in for a shock when they start at the new place - where they are now they are almost completely disinterested in any illness the girls have and I've not once been phoned to come and bring them home. The new place will not be as tolerant, I'm sure. Also filling out their forms last night I see that we have to have everything name-tagged - not looking forward to that!

[ladymuckbeth]

Meant to say too ALL we had a terrible time with 'traditional' car seats - the girls would ALWAYS manage to get their arms out of the straps, it completely freaked me out how impossible it was to make them tight enough to stop them doing it. It's one reason why we went over to the Kiddy ones which have a thick bar which wedges in front of the child, rather than a harness, and as Kate says it's impossible for them to get out.

[tartiflette]

When are you off mucky?

Hi all, sorry am do hopeless I am reading along but hardly have time to say anything at the mo. I'm saving up all my chat for our weekend away

[KateShmate]

Yep, ALL the cushion carseats are absolutely fabulous - I know that you probably don't want to buy a new carseat now as your boys aren't 'due' a new one. But the brilliant thing is that these seats turn into booster seats after the cushion is outgrown. Therefore, really, you're not spending any more money, but just buying a booster seat (which they will need anyway) in advance :)
I completely understand that you probably don't want to buy a new carseat, but just thought I would explain them, in case.

Trunki's are truly fabulous! Although it seems a bit ridiculous sometimes taking so many trunki's, its actually really helpful being able to have DC's clothes separate. We found it especially helpful with DD1 and DD2 when they had similar clothes in similar sizes - when its all bunged in together you have to constantly sort through it to see whose is whose, but when they are separated you can tell exactly who has what clothing left, what is dirty etc etc.

[ladymuckbeth]

Another big thumbs up for the Kiddy car seats, they are amazing and yes, last till they're 12.

tarti we're off on Saturday. I am yet to start packing...

In other more sinister news, J has recently developed a biting habit. It's driving me round the bend. She gets so angry and upset if E for example takes something away from her the literally shakes with rage and if she's holding onto her sister, will pinch or bite her quite badly. I haven't been told that she's done it at nursery (I presume I would be informed?) but does anyone have any tips for dealing with it? The problem with the poor thing is that she is so upset at the time, partly with herself I suspect, that until she's been calmed down telling her off just makes her more and more and more upset. She point-blank refuses to apologise until she has calmed down, and I often have to give her massive cuddles to help her climb down from the rage, which seems inappropriate given that she's the one who's done "something wrong" whilst E is whimpering/screaming having been badly bitten. Once she's calmed down she is capable of being remorseful and apologising, and you can tell she is very upset with herself. Sigh.

[ladymuckbeth]

PS: weekend away girls - I'm still up for it. My personal preference would be to travel on a Saturday morning, chill out for the afternoon/evening, have a lovely dinner and hope I don't make a tit of myself by drinking too much wine, and then travel back on Sunday. If we make it January there have got to be some bargains on somewhere, I would have thought. Did we settle on York?



:)

[tartiflette]

Massively up for all of the above. We will hunt for deals and sort when you are back.
Re. biting, M is also prone to it and also suffers from similar-sounding attacks of rage. I am trying not to get too het up about it and to remind myself that at this age they have no control over or even understanding of their very strong emotions. it is hideous however. Yes, you would be told if it was happening at nursery.

[AtLongLast]

Ooh, actually we're going to need next stage seats for dd soonish so might look into those. We could always put ds2 in if this is going to be a regular occurence. That said, I suspect dd might make it her own speciality . She is a total nightmare for nappy changing / dressing / buggy.

It's so hard with the emotional meltdowns. We haven't had the biting til tomorrow now I've said that but you can tell they are v distressed by their emotions & don't know how to deal with it bit like me. Boys have walked loads today & poor ds1 had a huge meltdown when we got home. Fine when we were getting out of the car but by the time we got into the house something had gone Seriously Wrong . Had to leave him rolling round on the floor while I sorted dinner. But I have resorted to cuddles when previously it just didn't seem appropriate. I took ds2 to his room yesterday after his carseat meltdown & he just melted into me. Poor sausage.

A little boy came up to ds1 and kissed him twice today while we were at the zoo. Ds1 was not impressed lol. & then we thought he was in line for another from a little girl who wanted an in-depth discussion with him about what her Dad was up to. Ds1 does a good line in faces .

[KateShmate]

mucky my J is the same - doesn't bite, but just gets ridiculously angry. My only suggestion is to quickly march her to time out to calm down. We had the same 'cuddles to calm down' thing, but then I just thought that I am giving her more attention that the one who has actually been hurt! So we stopped that completely and now I just take mine up to their bedroom and just calmly, but firmly (key to everything!) say 'You do NOT hit your sister, you need to stay here and calm down and then you can say sorry'. And then I just leave them to calm down - mine come downstairs of their own accord when they are ready and calm.
We don't make a big deal about it - no shouting or getting cross, but we felt that we needed to make it clear that getting OTT angry was just not acceptable.
It works really well - if A goes to snatch of J and she starts getting silly, I just take her calmly and say that if someone snatches then she needs to come and tell me and not get all silly and cross.
Hope it helps mucky - its quite exhausting when they get so angry over the smallest things!

[tartiflette]

ALL at your ds1 pulling at the zoo (twice!)
Anyone else have huge meltdowns over what to wear each morning? Them not us I should clarify - R has a full on tantrum EVERY BLOODY DAY about whatever I've put out for her. Can you imagine the teenage version.

[Cerubina]

I agree with the others' suggestion, mucky. Getting J out of the situation quickly and without fuss should serve a few purposes, I'd have thought - allows you to comfort E, gives J the space to calm down without losing face, avoids you having the dilemma of who to go to, and may teach J in the long run that biting/losing her rag just means spending time on her own which is BOOOORIN'. I think little children hate to think that they're missing out on fun, so removing her from the situation and then making lots of fuss of E should help her see that staying calm is better. But I reckon that sort of action-->consequences thing is probably a while off when they're still in the grip of tantrums so the phase may go on a bit.

Hope the packing is going well and have a fab time en vacances. Greece this time, isn't it?

tarti have you experimented with letting R pick out her own clothes? (I can only imagine the colour/pattern combos a toddler would come out with!) It might be that she's just trying to seize a bit of control and letting her choose something she wants to put on might defuse the situation (while probably it would be a good idea to put aside a change of top when it turns out she's over or under dressed for the weather...)

[LaVitaBellissima]

Cerub/Tarti, I have exactly the same with V at the moment she'd preferably be nude but refuses all clothes, everything is "YUCK" it is driving me bonkers

[LaVitaBellissima]

Mucky I am keen for our meet up, need to convince DP though, funnily enough he doesn't like being left with the girls, tough luck I say

Kate can you link to the carseats again and also those special knives? Are you coming on our meet up. Would your DH be ok with 5 on his own ?

[ladymuckbeth]

Just a quickie LVB but here are the Kiddy car seats

Thanks all for the thoughts, I think you're right.

tarti - the only way I manage to dress them without too much fuss is to distract them in the process by having them plonked in front of the TV. Not that that's foolproof.....

Yes, off to Greece we go. Had bad news yesterday in that our planning application has been refused, and I'm half pissed off with the council planning department, but also with our architect somehow for letting it happen in the first place. We now need to start from scratch, highly depressing.

[tartiflette]

Hmmm she pretty much insists on choosing her own whether I 'allow' it or not... Her choice is always a manky old green and white striped hand me down t shirt.
Can I have a round up of who is now in beds rather than cots?

[ladymuckbeth]

Us - cots. We have promised the girls beds upon our return. I am DREADING it. Although I have settled on the JL bed which is good.

We had a sad time tonight, for about the 4th night in a row the girls ignored their dinner. They are driving me half mad with either eating nothing, getting down from the table and running around playing (how on earth do I stop this nonsense??!!) or deciding that the only way they'll eat is in 'role play'. Ahem. Have I mentioned that at the moment the girls are deeply entrenched in a role play which involves one of them (Juliet) being the other one's (bossy boots Eve) puppy? The puppy is called Bella and does all sorts of tricks. It is simultaneously amusing and disturbing but today they were half way through that, having moved their plates onto the floor and pretending to feed each other whilst woofing and suchlike, when DH completely lost his patience and insisted that they sit at the table and eat. E refused completely and so DH said she wouldn't be allowed any milk before bed. This has NEVER happened and she is a complete milk-monster, she was utterly and then utterly distraught. He stuck to his guns, I was wobbling, but she has gone to bed without any dinner or milk and Very Sad Indeed. It's so bloody hard disciplining them, isn't it? :(

[tartiflette]

Have they been at nursery today mucky? Mine aren't remotely interested in food after a nursery day. And God yes, the getting down from the table. I've just started to get hardcore about it and take their plates away as soon as they vacate the chair as I can't stand it. Only has any effect if they actually want what I've given them though, which is maybe about a third of the time. I was really encouraged after our holiday because they had really improved but I think it was only because there were so many of us round the table, loads of adults and we all ate together - now we're at home it's back to square one. They are better when we eat with them (and when it's something they really like) but we only do this about 50% of the time.

[ladymuckbeth]

Ditto to all of that tarti - it's always better when we eat together but we don't do it enough. Tonight though we were having something they both like (burgers and sweet potato and salad) but still not interested. Yes, twas a nursery day which may well excuse it partly - it just feels like it's every day at the moment. Oh how I look forward to the excruciating humiliation of feeding them in a hotel restaurant every day for 14 days........

[AtLongLast]

I think Kate is the only one to have actually made the transition to beds? I can feel us getting closer. It certainly doesn't seem as unthinkable as it did just a few weeks ago. We switched all the furniture around and finally got their curtains up last weekend in readiness. I want to make duvet covers first so still some time while I decide on fabric.

Luckily the boys don't really care what they wear but it's so much easier with boys anyway. Grab a pair of trousers & top & that's them sorted & the dressing bit is largely something that happens to them. Long or short sleeved is my biggest decision. Deciding for dd is already more difficult what with the matching item /colour / season & then fighting to get it on her .

Bummer about the planning app LadyM. Do you get any feedback other than a `no' to give you ideas where to go from here? Hope you can forget about it & have a lovely holiday.

We are having more issues at the table too. Boys haven't eaten as well as usual for the last week or so & I was hoping it was because we've all had awful colds again. Not convinced though. They are both really into standing in their seats / facing the other way & fiddling with the worktops. I tend to sit next to ds1 & he's taken to draping himself all over me which is so annoying when I'm trying to eat even if he is being cute. We had to stop putting them out of the kitchen cos rather than them sobbing at the gate, they saw it as an opportunity to go play with their toys so not a punishment. Now it's into their cots which they hate so it does cure bad behaviour that mealtime. Another reason I'm reluctant to put them into beds, much as I hate using their bed as punishment.

I had a lukewarm response from dp about a possible night away too Lavita. I can't really complain since he makes such stupidly big efforts not to stay away from home when he's travelling for work. I have cunningly suggested he should stay over next week and if when we have our work done on the house I'll take the kids away for a few days on my own.... setting a bit of a precedent & all that...

[KateShmate]

tarti and mucky - mine are the same after a long day! Definitely find that it helps when we eat with them - if DH isn't home (we normally eat together) I tend to half my dinner with girls and other half with DH. I find that otherwise I/they feel that I am just constantly watching them eat, and is probably too much pressure!
We don't tend to talk about 'eating' either - well, if its meat then we talk about what kind etc, other than that I try to make them talk about something completely different to distract them.
Mine are good eaters, so I can't complain really, but they do have 'off' days when they've had a long/tiring day.

Yep think we are the only ones in beds ALL - its still going okay, but we've brought in a new routine.. I had to slightly make it up and is a bit of a story..
Me and DH went out shopping together (rare occasion) and found these gorgeous teddies that are asleep - DD's do not need anymore cuddly toys, but these teddies were just soooooo cute. DTrips had been acting up the previous few nights so I told DH about this new sleep technique that uses teddies. He liked the sound so we got them! Basically, we hammed up these teddies and DD's all absolutely LOVED them - we then did a whole story about the teddies being tiny babies and that they don't know how to sleep like good girls yet, so DD's have to show them. Explained that if DD's can't show the teddies how to be good then their 'sleepy cuddly' is taken to mummy and daddys bed so that we can show them how to sleep nicely (that isn't supposed to sound so rude!!!). They were horrified at the thought of their new cuddlies sleeping with us! Instead of constantly concentrating on how naughty they are being, giving them the opportunity to keep being naughty, this technique is kind of making them want to be grown up and in charge of their special teddy. It is totally working - we are completely gobsmacked!!! First night we explained that sleep cuddly is really tired, but she isn't sure how to get to sleep so DD's need to show them how they go to sleep nicely. I didn't even sit in with DTrips - we didn't even hear a peep! Totally hammed up how good they were at looking after cuddlies in the morning!

[LaVitaBellissima]

Kate that is brilliant, amazing reverse psychology!

It's late but I just need to say I am so that Mucky is in Greece!

[tartiflette]

Oh Kate, I love it.
Also agree about not discussing food while they're eating it. My hardcore approach (leave the table, your plate gets taken away, no alternatives offered - ever - and no pudding if you haven't had a good go at first course) is having no discernible impact. But am sticking with it.

[KateShmate]

Thanks ladies, we can't believe how well its working!
Reverse psychology seems like the key for us! They just seem to hate the idea that they aren't good enough to look after their cuddly. When one DD is silly at night time, we are going to stick to our guns and take the cuddly away, but not focussing on the fact that it is a punishment, but on the fact that their cuddly needs to sleep and that they need to show them how etc etc. We love it, and the cuddlies are sooooo cute!!!

Tarti stick with the hardcore approach - even if it doesn't work, which I am pretty sure it will, at least that is your rule and that you always keep to it, IYSWIM? Its giving them rules and boundaries which, even if they don't eat anything, stay exactly the same, and something that you won't give in to.

We definitely have no alternatives - but then I never cook anything that they hate because you are kind of setting yourself up for failure! I do cook things that some aren't keen on though, as I think its important for them to understand that sometimes they do just have to eat what they are given.
I always find it so funny when we give DD's something completely new - DTrips squeal and scream and say that its 'gross' and that they 'not eating'. DD1 is a bit cautious and takes ages sniffing it; then DD2 jumps right in and scoffs it in.... then DTrips all fight over it and scream that its their 'faaaaaaavourite'!!!

I am so jealous of a hot holiday too :( I'm hoping to get round DH and book Disney for Xmas, just a long weekend. My excuse will be that I can't see us going on a hot holiday too soon, so we need a chilly one!
Hmmm.. I wonder how long it will take him to give in..

[AtLongLast]

Haha, I am getting the impression that you are pretty good at wrapping dh around your little finger Kate!

Sounds like your cuddlies are working well! We have a vaguely similar thing in that the boys choose a toy train to take to bed & we make a fuss of making sure it's orientated the right way & snuggled in . Boys invariably snuggle next to it. If they're in a grump we count to 3 then boy/train doesn't get snuggly & they hate that. Not sure what would happen if they weren't contained in their cot still though....

I agree with `rules is rules' too Tarti. We are slightly different in that pudding is still on offer but it's v rare for them not to have a decent amount of mains anyway. Two new things here today - smoked mackerel . Ds2 wolfed it down but the other two weren't at all keen . Then a carrot/sultana/cinnamon cake I made. Ds2 wouldn't touch it til he realised the other two had had theirs. Then he tried it & immediately wanted MORE. I think I need to put cocoa powder in all cakes to fool them into thinking they're chocolate cake...