TTT.....

[AtLongLast]

OTT / self-indulgent I know, but Toddler Twin Tantrums..... aaargh! Just as well they're so cute too. Ds2 was v funny today wiggling his bum singing uh, uh Bobby' in response to me dancing round the kitchen to Bobby's girl'...

[londonlottie]

Sorry to hear that Kate. Don't worry - any talk of illness has all of us shuddering in our boots, let alone an ongoing one. Very very stressful to deal with alongside everything else. I have (just the) two girls and even their two year old squealing is making me nervous of the noise levels in 10 yrs time!

[KateShmate]

Thank you Lottie - we know that in a few years she will have 'grown out of it', but at the moment we are just struggling to keep on top of it and manage it. The illness she has is quite similar to diabetes, and because of her blood sugar constantly going up and down, we have to do a finger prick (to draw blood) every few hours, and 3 or 4 times per night - so just leaving us all a bit tired. We thought that once we had the diagnosis, we would be able to manage it easily, but its been completely the opposite really. The consultant has told us how to treat it, but she isn't really responding to it much - but we have told it may take time to settle down.. fingers crossed!
Sorry, I hate to moan about it all - makes me feel so guilty when I think that some children will have this for the rest of their lives (or much, much worse illnesses).. we are bloody lucky that she will grow out of it by the time she is 4 or 5. We can cope with no sleep for 2/3 years

[londonlottie]

How stressful for you all. DH is a Type 1 diabetic so am well-versed in dealing with it, let alone when you're trying to manage something ongoing like that with someone as strong-willed, desperate to be independent yet at the same time very much dependent on you. Great news that she'll grow out of it - admire your glass-half-full attitude. :)

Just landed back home... phew, one more leg of this journey out of the way.

[AtLongLast]

How do you feel now you're proper back Lottie? Does it feel real?

Tarti I know. Mug... moi?

I don't think it sounds easy at all Kate. I don't envy you. It's awful when your child is ill and you feel you can't do anything to help them and more so again, I guess, when it's a longer term thing.

Buoyed by your helpful CP lady experience Kate (I hate, hate, hate talking on the phone), I rang them yesterday to sort out an extra cot. I must've got a different lady. Explained we were taking 3 under 2's but that since that wasn't an option when booking online & the boys will only be a month off being 2 when we go, the booking is for 2 children / 1 infant. Apparently more than 2 infants isn't allowed, which is why the option isn't there . So she couldn't book me an extra cot (not v unusual for 2yr old to be in cot??). But we can change the booking on arrival & order the cot then. So 3 infants in accommodation is allowed then...? Spose it's my fault for booking online rather than over the phone for a party that doesn't fit their drop menus.

[londonlottie]

Bloody ridiculous that they think a 2 yr old will automatically be in a bed. Mine will be in cots till they're about five! (Wearing sleeping bags...)

Feels good(ish) to be back, although put the girls down at 7.45 and they're still kicking off up there at 9.10. FFS. Takes the shine off coming home somewhat Felt quite emotional leaving, and had a nice leaving day yesterday. Might have a small business opportunity with one of the mums out there which I'm quite excited about, and have already decided to try and get some cheapie Easyjet flights and go and visit a friend in a few weeks time with the girls. Am I mad to consider flying with them alone??!

[AtLongLast]

Haha, I missed a trick with the Grobags til 5 with the boys. Now they've been in onesies for a few months there's no going back to sleeping bags. Won't make that mistake with dd & am ordering from your link in preparation! The cot though - I know, I was a bit confused by that!! I think the only people I know who have their 2yr old in bed are those who have climbed out already or have young baby & want to use the cot. Still, they charge an additional £18.50 to hire an additional cot....

The girls are probabaly just made up to have you back - and demonstrating it in the least appropriate way. I hope they've flopped settled now. Looks like your not-goodbye was v accurate on more than one front & I think you'll feel like Supermum after surviving the flights - go for it!

[tartiflette]

Kate - sounds like you're coping amazingly. Am seriously full of admiration. Thank goodness it won't be a permanent thing for your DD.

Lottie business opp sounds great. Go for it with the flights. You'll get help from the airline I'm sure. Just read back and had a rueful grin at Juliet requesting more sleep.... wish my early risers would adopt that attitude!!

ALL that is so irritating about CP. Could you call back saying you have discussed with a friend who was given a completely different answer - a different person may be able to find the solution you need... I probably need to ring them too as we need 3 cots for our stay (when ours will JUST have turned 2) due to bil's new baby. Also our house in France this summer - I had vaguely imagined they would be in beds by 2.3 but am beginning to see that was insanity!

[KateShmate]

ALL I can't believe they said that! Clearly a different woman!
Im sure that we didn't pay any extra for another cot - the woman was so in awe that we had triplets, that she just sorted it all out.
It just wasn't an issue at all; in the end she had to leave the 'room issue' with someone else (probably same lady as yours!) who wasn't impressed with the other woman (who told us that it should be fine RE. having the 3 bedrooms, 1 room with 3 cots) and in the end we did pay for 4 bedrooms. We did think that we may have had to, and didn't really mind.
If we hadn't have had the super nice lady that we had, we probably wouldn't have booked it if she couldn't have sorted everything out for us.

Tartiflette and Lottie Ours are 2.6 and not coming out any time soon! Why move them if they still fit in? When they don't, they will just have to curl up.. !

Thanks for all the kind words ladies! Lottie definitely helps to have a glass-half-full attitude with this kind of thing; yes she's very poorly - but not dying, and all we can do is get on with it and manage as best as we can! I know it must be awful and such a nightmare for your DH, but at least he can understand why he has to inject and watch diet etc; but with a 2YO, how do you explain why mummy has to stab you with a needle about a million times a day?!

Lottie I hate that - when you come home from somewhere (where you've been for a few days or something) and are so, so pleased to see DC's, and they couldn't bloody care less, and act up for your benefit! Delightful!
FWIW, go for the flights! If its a nightmare, you know not to do it for another few years - I bet they will be as good as gold! Just take colouring/snacks/books/snacks/favourite toys, and they will be fine :)

[AtLongLast]

Haha, I think that may be the difference Kate.... they didn't have your cash when you rang, but they already have ours . Odd that they don't accept more than 2 under 2's though. I think my 3 are less risky in terms of potential damage than many with 3+ over 2s, especially since we'll have their Dad and both sets of grandparents to keep order rather than our day-to-day norm of just me.... Unless it's fire reg stuff? Dunno. I'm assuming there will be a cot included for dd (who won't use it cos she'll be in with me) so I might ring back Tarti (if I psyche myself up enough!) to check' that and try again in the hope I get the helpful lady. Stupid me imagined a cosy office with a nice lady having a cuppa / biscuits between calls. Like CP is small enough for that.... <br /> <br /> Out at lunch today & ds2 spotted a fish tank in the cafe. He got really excited & kept shouting ds1, fish, ds1, fish'. It's the first time we've seen meaningful verbal communication from him to ds1 (ds1 is always barking instruction at him: `ds2 - shoes - car' while shoving shoes in ds2's face). Was so sweet & dp had tears in his eyes... bless...

[londonlottie]

:) Evening everyone. I can't comment on the CP talk, but am taking notes! I seem to have seen about 1000000000 adverts for CP since getting back, their subliminal messages are slowly working on me...

Had 'one of those days' today with the girls - bro and family came over, including their daughter of same age. Who was very well behaved and sweet while my girls.... um.... were... ... feisty ... um... high-spirited and... entertaining. A more realistic description would be that they were a bloody nightmare. Grumpy from the minute they got up from their nap, refused to even sit at the table let alone eat any dinner, grumpy about sharing their (minimal) toys. We've just had a discussion about how we handled their behaviour and the good news is that at least (for once) we were in accordance. They were such a nightmare at the table I told them to get down, then we basically gave them no attention until they came back with their tail between their legs. At this age (25 months) is it possible to do anything else when they're screaming at the table?

[AtLongLast]

Uh oh... nightmare! Was niece the comprehending-Xmas-prodigy-according-to-SIL? I'd do the same in getting them down from table tbh. We've done it once with ds1 when he was going through his tantrum phase after dd arrived. We have a gate at the kitchen door so I dumped him on the floor on the other side in the hallway & let him get on with it while we had a jolly, lovely time in full view of him ate. I'd do it again.

[Chesticles]

My God, we seem to be in tantrum hell here. J has turned into the devil child, who just screams. I'm pretty sure it is just temper, but earlier today he was having such a meltdown after having woken from an 90 minute nap (he woke naturally) that I actually was beginning to think he was in life threatening pain ( - don't know which smiley to use so will just use them all apart from any amused ones!). D and J spend all their time fighting over the same toy. Was just saying to someone the other day that my boys are eventually beginning to tolerate each other and maybe even like each other and they revert to loathing each other. I despair. All the chat I see on other threads about how lovely it is to have twins and how special their relationship it....am I the only one who has twins who hate each other? Actually maybe its a genetic thing..was speaking to my Dad about it the other day and he said none of the twins in his mum's (my granny) actually got on. My twin great aunts hated each other and were very competitive. The twin uncles were just not that bothered by each other, completely uninterested, and my granny and her twin brother never really had a chance as he was sent away at birth to be brought up by a maiden aunt as my great grand mother couldn't cope as she had 5 under 3 (twins, single, twins) and wasn't brought back into the family until he was about 5 . Anyway, I digress...
To add to the jolly air in our house, H, who has just turned 4 has entered a really whiny stage. No idea why, but she is just moaning about everything at the moment.

But must stop moaning about it. They are probably feeding off my grumpiness. I hate January, the lack of money, the lack of daylight. Roll on February . CP wise, although I like it, I hope I haven't got anyone's hopes up. It's great, but I can see why people wouldn't like it. They are rip off merchants in a lot of ways. to get round the cot situations, I would just take travel cots probably. The rooms don't have a hell of a lot of floor space to be honest, so it might be a squeeze fitting 3 cots in one room. I also forgot to mention that lodge location can make a huge difference. One time we were much further out than previously, and it was a really pain, having to trek for 20 minutes back to the lodge to pick up forgotten juice cups etc.

Kate sorry to hear that one of your girls is having a tough time. I hope that things become easier (well maybe more routine is a better way of putting it, blood pricks are not easy) with time and that she grows out of it quickly.

Apologies for moany post about moany kids. To add to the madness, we are planning going swimming tomorrow... glutens for punishment DH and I!

[londonlottie]

Oh Chesticles you have my sympathy. Mostly because we're having similar tantrumming episodes these days.

I'm not sure what I think about twins who loathe each other, especially ones that go back in a family's history. I guess that's because I'm hoping rather selfishly that it's highly unlikely and can be avoided! I also wonder if in 'the old days' twin siblings were less likely to be close because the crucial resources like love and money were scarcer - so if you were a twin maybe it was more likely you'd view your other as a rival than as a friend, especially in an already large family where your presence - two babies at once - might be quite a hardship for everyone. All conjecture and I have no idea but am just hoping it's highly unlikely because I don't fancy spending the next 15 years as the family policeman settling pointless disputes about who got the bigger piece of toast.

We try as much as we can to get our girls to share, and are sometimes successful but bloody hell it's hard work with scant reward. My mother is slowly learning that if you're going to buy them something, you're much better off buying two EXACTLY the same things rather than slightly different. What a waste of money that can feel. I would say that E & J mostly ignore each other, show occasional signs of love and caring for each other, and occasionally fight/lash out at the other. Yesterday I asked E if she wanted to come and sit on my lap to have her milk, and Juliet leapt across the room declaring it was HER lap and jumped on me before Eve had a chance...

[Chesticles]

Apologies again for indulgent post last night. Was just wittering on. I don't really think the boys are hard wired to hate each other, they are just so completely opposite personalities. I suppose I bought into the "twin connection" thing and am fed up dealing with "ooh twins, how lovely, are they inseperable/they must derive so much comfort from each other/are they cute when they sleep together" comments (I seem to have had a lot of late). On a nicer note D and H play nicely together sometimes. H says D is her best friend.

On the belongings thing, we are still finding our way, but think like LL that two identical things is probably the way forward. Though we have two identical trucks and they still squabble over the same one - though I'm blowed if I can tell the difference between them

Right, wish me luck, we're off swimming!

[AtLongLast]

How did the swimming go Chesti? Our session last week was a palaver & a half. Went through all the faff of getting us all ready, got in the pool ..........& it was freeeeezing! Boys were already grumpy (swimming usually cures them which is why we weren't put off) so clung to us like limpets; dd loved it. After a minute or two of us sitting huddled together we decided to cut our losses and get out. This morning was much better!

I was talking to dp about the mysterious twin connection after reading your post & he agrees it's not something ours have ever shown the vaguest of signs. They didn't register there was another baby there til 5months ish. I remember ds1 being desperate to catch ds2's attention at the table when they were 6months but ds2 used to lives in LaLa land most of the time so didn't respond. & it's only v v recently that we've seen them actually enjoying and seeking out one another's company.

Sharing is getting better here. They do mostly accept they can't take things off the other now (not that they like it), but can have the toy when the other has finished with it. If they take it, they will mostly give it back when asked. Ds1 is showing good thinking skills in conning ds2 out of toys. We have a Thomas Tank that plays the Thomas theme tune (ds1's fav toy). If ds2 is playing with it and ds1 wants it, he'll try giving ds2 random bits of crap toys in return. The other day he put a coin piggy bank toy that ds2 usually loves playing with near to ds2. When that didn't work he pushed the pig right up to ds2's leg. Ds2 then decided to play with that so ds1 took Thomas. Result!

Sharing attention - a different thing altogether! We have so many episodes of whingebagging totally because they both want cuddles at the same time, or they think the other might be about to get attention. Wouldn't mind so much if they were short on cuddles/attention but they are always on offer. We're now refusing unless they stop whining - with some effect. Ds2 seems to be getting it, but not ds1.

[tartiflette]

Just dashing in to say hi to you all. Am full of cold and feel rubbish, have loads of work to do and am glued to this awful child protection programme about a poor neglected little boy, totally heartbreaking.
Have lots to say on the subject of twins fighting/hating each other but will have to wait till tomorrow night now. Nightie night all

[Chesticles]

Swimming was ok. Not a complete disaster, but the kids didn't enjoy it as much as they have done previously. H was continuing her recent moany theme and pretty much refused to do much (go on slide, play in the bubble beds etc). D clung like a limpet to me for 90% of the time until he found the slide and then didn't want to leave. J had a fairly placid, not happy, but not unhappy time. Went out for lunch afterwards to a Harvester/Eating Inn type place. Was actually really good. Kids sat google eyed at the TV(Cbeebies) in the booth (they don't normally get TV at mealtimes) and robotically shovelled food into their mouths, whilst DH and I actually enjoyed a quiet meal! Makes me almost tempted to get a telly in the kitchen! Though I shouldn't have been scoffing food after having seen myself in swimming costume. Not good. Diet has stalled, must re-motivate myself.

Tarti don't know how you can watch a programme on a neglected child. Fact or fiction I just can't hope with it anymore. Even slumdog millionaire had me in floods of tears for most of it for the poor children.

[KateShmate]

Chesticles Good on you for going with them - its a nightmare near us, all the pools say that each child under 8 (who can't swim confidently) have to have an adult accompanying them - which means we can only take 2/5 girls swimming...
There is 1 place about 45 minutes away that just allows as many children as you want - its brilliant because its a childrens pool with slides and everything - but not so brilliant because then we do need 1 child each to help with the slides and to eliminate drownage risk!
We really should go more, try and make the effort.
DD2 is a nightmare to go swimming with - when she was smaller she just wanted to go off all the time! We would be in the deep end and she would just scream, wriggle and tell us that she could do it herself - so we would let go of her (only for a second) and obviously she would go straight under. We would grab her up spluttering around, and she would just wriggle off again! At the time, those buoyancy jackets were useless because she was too small. Now, at 4, she can't swim but we just chuck her in in the jacket and she just bobs around!
1 of the Dtrip's is the same!

Agree about the child abuse thing, don't know how you can watch it Tarti - makes me feel physically sick. I know if I started watching it, I'd have to carry on to make sure the bastards got time for it; but too scared to watch it in the first place.

[AtLongLast]

We thought we'd have that problem once dd arrived Kate after hearing about 1:1 requirements / our pool has notices up saying under 8s must be accompanied by an adult. Then we realised ours mightn't mean 1:1 ratio so chanced our luck & it has been fine. V quiet pool though and no slides etc & the pool we go to now has a family changing room & v helpful staff. Def wouldn't fancy taking any more than 3 though & will be interesting to see what happens once dd gets older. The boys are happy bobbing around using armbands / jumping in from the side so sort of hoping they will be super-confident and semi-sensible by then...

Makes it really worthwhile when they appreciate your efforts so much doesn't it Chesti?! You have reminded me to bear in mind Harvester type places. We passed one recently & it occurred to me we fit their target gp these days.

Oh Tarti, I iplayered that programme today. It was so, so all round but really interesting too. I hope you're feeling better and less swamped by work

[londonlottie]

How on earth do you manage 3 with 2 adults though ALL? I couldn't possibly cope! Unless we were in a paddling pool, and even then I'm not sure I'd trust myself... had a situation last summer where I was with the girls right in the middle of a large paddling pool, both fell over one after the other and I was terrified - E slipped and went under just as I was hauling J to the side and it took a couple of seconds at least before I realised.

Am with the others tarti - can't watch those programmes, not brave enough.

Went to look round the new nursery today, and as documented in fury on FB, my mother witnessed a little upstart pointing to E's face (as she stood there investigating some of the toys with the other kids while I chatted to the owner) and saying "what's wrong with her cheeks?" I know I'm being ridiculously over-protective, but I love her hamster cheeks! How very dare she! Was my first instance of something where I felt fierce protection in the face of external interference. Can't bear to think of anyone being horrible to her, to either of them, to any children in fact. Boo.

[LaVitaBellissima]

Will post later but Centreparcs is booked

DP refused to pay extra to choose our lodge location, said it was rubbish, but I'm sure he'll be annoyed with all the walking. I really want to get bikes and a little trailer too, £75 for the week though

[AtLongLast]

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't manage two on my own either Lottie, but 3 with the two of us feels far more manageable at the moment with dd being so small. Dp carries dd in car seat and walks whichever boy is calmer. I walk the other & carry our baggage. We use the family changing room & I keep kiddies in there while dp puts our stuff in the lockers. Then we all go have a shower & dp walks the boys to the pool while I carry dd/swimring/car seat. Although the boys are confident in the water, they obv can't swim yet so can't move at speed when out of their depth. I'll take dd in her swimring & one of the boys, usually ds2 cos he's a bit in love with dd atm, and he likes to use the heating element thing/ pool tiles as a train track so we spend lots of time just walking up & down it making train noises .... They like to jump in but largely accept they're not allowed out of the pool once in. Then to get out, I'll do dd at poolside & strap her into her seat then we sort the boys (or dp does while I feed dd). That's the hardest part really cos dp is in the water with both boys wanting to go in opposite directions. If it came to it, at least we'd know dd would be safe in her car seat if we both needed to attend to the boys. Taking it all week by week at the moment though. I'm more worried about going to softplay tomorrow with my 3 and my niece who has a 4month old ....

Yey Lavita! Which did you go for in the end? We didn't choose our lodge location either but knew it would be an outer one with us getting it v cheaply.... and we weren't disappointed . We're not fussed, but not sure the grandparents realise how big the site is & how far they might have to walk. We have booked a couple of bikes for our lodge but my mum is not a cyclist. Still, they're getting a free holiday & get to spend time with their grandchildren....

Right... enough procrastination. DD is sleeping, dts at nursery & I should really just pull my finger out & get this marking out of my hair!

[londonlottie]

:) You are extremely capable ALL :)

We went to soft play this morning; I was impressed actually - the one in Switz. we used to go to was rubbish in comparison. No chairs/tables anywhere near the soft play area so you were either standing by the soft play policing other people's brats your kids or sat in a separate restaurant room where you couldn't see the kids. This one was better, I was booming "this is GREAT!" to my mother as she stood there looking distinctly unimpressed at having to sit at cheap plastic tables and chairs drinking rubbish coffee while a variety of grubby children hurtled past her shrieking their lungs out. My idea of "GREAT!" has obviously deteriorated these past two years... give me the chance to sit down for 15 minutes while the girls can safely entertain themselves and I'm moderately content. The girls loved every minute, was brilliant. And all for £4.50

[AtLongLast]

Oops sorry Lottie... I think you were musing rather than expecting a blow-by-blow account of our swimming trips....

Gosh, the Swiss one does sound erm... not ideal?! Haha at your Mum / your revised expectations. Our local soft play sounds similar to yours though the coffee (and food!) at ours is actually rather nice if a bit cold by the time I get round to drinking it. I took my MIL once... she thought it was a bit rough . I think my reservations about tomorrow is that I'm travelling a fair distance to niece's so haven't been to this one & have visions of ds1 being stuck up high (I think the additional height dimension is the scary bit), ds2 being usual manic self & dd needing feeding all at the same time. Niece said she will help me but......?

Dd waking & haven't quite finished procrastinating yet. Oh well. A bit of maternity hospital it is while boys are out. Decided I should stop watching it the other week because the boys were shouting `baba, baba' when scenes of surgery were on TV during a report about the PIP implants recently... overexposure?

[tartiflette]

ALL

Lottie I read your fb update about the cheeks comment. It gave me a horrible insight into how I will feel once they're at school and exposed to all manner of comments from peers... horrible to think we can't protect them from any kind of upset. Anyway I digress as obviously Eve wasn't upset by the comment (bet the child's mother was MORTIFIED) - and she is absolutely gorgeous in any case. But I echo your indignation!

Well we will need bikes and a trailer too at CP, as I think our lodge is also on the outskirts (not 100% sure as mil has booked). When are you going Lavita?

Loving all the swimming chat. We've still never taken ours, due to the fact that our local pools all insist on 1:1 ratio and DH won't entertain the idea of a 'municipal pool' (!!)... we haven't been away on a proper holiday yet so no swimming opportunities on that front either, but all that will change this summer. We'll probably find we've missed the window and they will forever hate the water or never manage to learn to swim or whatever

re. the child protection/social services prog - it wasn't child abuse as such (could never sit and watch something like that) just a woefully damaged couple who were ill equipped to deal with parenting. In the end they separated and the mother made the decision to give her 4 year old and baby up for adoption. It was so desperately sad, I really shouldn't have watched it, have been thinking about it all week.

My diet has stalled too Chesti (AGAIN). Really annoyed with myself.

Am still full of cold (or as I like to think of it, flu ) and really feeling I could do with someone taking the girls away for 48hrs so I could recoup, do umpteen loads of laundry, deal with the paperwork mountain and catch up on work. Ha. It's not that I don't love spending time with them (!) but they are so full on and demanding. I was moaning to someone at work about a pile of assessments that need marking and she said 'oh you'll just have to do it tomorrow while you're off and the girls are playing' - I mean is it just me who finds that suggestion ridiculous?! Do anyone else's play nicely (together or apart) for any length of time? I mean to the point where you can get on with something... I seem to be required to participate rather more than I would like

Sorry for the completely self-involved post!