Expats - What Has Changed? What Won't Change?

[NotQuiteCockney]

As an expat (Canadian in the UK), I'm very aware of what I've changed. I now say "mum". I like queueing. I use lots of British constructions. My accent has even drifted a bit (although only DH can tell. Other people say my accent is still quite strong).

But - I will not drink tea. I will not listen to the Archers. I think that doing either of these would mean I have "gone native", and it would be time to go home.

Do any other expats (to anywhere, from anywhere) have similar lists?

Oh, I still don't have the reflex habit of "all guests must be given tea". It annoys DH no end. People who know me well just go in and make their own tea. And I do suggest other people make it themselves, too, as I don't drink tea, so I'm likely to not make it how they want it. (My PILs are really annoyed by the fact that neither me nor DH drink tea.)

Oh, and I can't stand builder's coffee, either. I'm delighted that a proper Italian coffee shop has opened near us, it's child-friendly and lovely and cheap. And the owner says he'll get in some Chinotto!

at not automatically offering something to guests - dh and I have that so ingrained in our Irish/Malaysian psyche that we are usually offering drinks before they've even crossed the threashold.

Something else that I'm not sure that I ever really did, but definitely don't do now is the "Irish beg". Someone comes to your house, you offer refreshment, they say
"I don't want to put you to any trouble"
"It's no trouble"
"No really I'm fine"
"Are you sure, I'm putting the kettle on anyway?"
"No, I just had a cup before I left home"
"Aw go on, I'm making myself one"
etc, etc - think Mrs Doyle from Father Ted, it can be genuinely annoying when visiting people in Ireland if I really don't want a cup of tea as this exchange can go on for ages until I give in and have one, whereupon they usually refuse the believe that any normal person would drink it black. Equally, Irish people sometimes get caught out when visiting abroad and they turn down the first offer but the host takes them at their word and doesn't offer again leaving them thirsty.

bran.

you mean like, "will you have a cup of tea, father?"...

I'm so pleased that's real. Must find myself some Irish friends.

You would have to travel to the depths of rural Ireland to get the full effect SP. The Irish abroad usually realise that they are annoying the locals by forcing tea down their throats, even in Dublin they usually only offer two or three times and they're so sophisticated in the cities that they even offer coffee (instant of course).

It's ok, bran, DH is compelled to give drinks to guests. He chases them around and implores them to have something. I have sometimes told guests they have to accept something, they don't have to drink it, but that way, at least DH can calm down.

I mostly entertain people who know me and just go make their own tea. I do keep teabags and milk.

I have lived here for donkey's years and pretty much refuse to do anything that is "English" apart from eating fish and chips every now and then.

Apart from England's interesting history, its literature, the English language, and a few other things, I don't see anything particulary attractive about being "English" tbh.

I did know a man from Latin America (who was originally Belgian !) who came to do a PhD at Oxford and went "native" within 3 years and I found it extremely strange. He started to dress like an English country gentleman and played cricket (how many Latino's or Belgian's play cricket ?).

I come from one of the oldest civilisations in the world with an amasing language and culture. I think that makes a huge difference to how English you can become. I can't ever see myself going "native" here or any where else for that matter.

Which one, ghollam? (Your name doesn't sound Chinese and that's one of the oldest, isn't it?)

And how long have you been here - donkey's years sounds fairly native so it must be a long time...

Janh - No, I am not Chinese. Do all Chinese people on this website have a Chinese name ? I doubt it !!

The Chinese do have ONE of the oldest civilasations, but there are many others that are nearly as old.

Does it make a difference where I am from ?

What is so attractive about going native any way ? Just because I don't want to go native does not mean I am not well integrated in British society.

Going native means you gradually reject your own culture and background in order to adopt those of the community you live in. It has NOTHING to do with how well integrated you are within a society nor does it have anything to do with how LONG you have lived in a particular society.

ghollam: it's typical of Janh's kindness to be genuinely interested in other people. I imagine that's why she asked about your culture.

I can think of lots of good reasons to go native. 1. You make more friends, or at least a more diverse group of friends. It wouldn't suit me, personally, to find a ghetto of my own people & socialize exclusively with them, as people from my country often do. 2. You can learn more & get more out of your experience by being open to another culture's way of thinking about the world. 3. It makes life more enjoyable if you can, say, learn to love jaffa cakes instead of endlessly pining for your favorite biscuits from home. So "going native" is a more positive & optimistic way of existing from day to day in a new country. 4. You can adopt certain native traits that unexpectedly improve your character. For example: I've learned to be more stoic, a change in myself that I like. But I've avoided adopting national characteristics I don't admire, which is perfectly easy to do. So you need not "lose" anything in yourself by going native. 5. I imagine that one can have more success in the workplace by going native at least to a certain extent.

Those are just a few reasons off the top of my head. And these reasons don't just apply to the people who immigrate to the UK. It applies to the Brits who emigrate elsewhere like the highly eductated media people who move to NYC and become magazine editors who exclusively socalize with each other rather than wasting time with Americans. I just find it narrow. But some people need the comfort of what they knowand I do respect that.

Been in the UK for 12 years now - came over from Germany as a 17 yr old.

I will not, ever, unless forced to at gunpoint, eat mint sauce with lamb (where's the puking emoticon?). I think that's about the only thing I refuse to comply with.

My accent is completely gone, well, it's turned into Yorkshire.

I do drink litres of tea and offers cups to whoever comes round. But no biscuits - I'm too weak-willed to have biscuits in the house.

I speak German with the kids so they do get a good dose of German culture that way I suppose.

ghollam - I think I see what you mean - if going native means you reject your own culture then there's no reason to do it.

I will never fully swap my nice cup of PG tips with cold fresh milk for Spanish coffeee for example. But I do drink Spanish coffee and i do keep it in the house: I don't expect Spanish friends to drink tea.

As it goes though one of the things I can't get used to about Spanish culture is that it's not common to go to other people's houses anyway. You meet up at restaurants etc instead, kids and all. Maybe that will get easier when my two are older.

lol at "apart from the history, the literature, the language...I can't see anything great about being English". What have the Romans ever done for us, eh?

one of the oldest civilisations eh, ghollam?
Can we guess, just for curiosity's sake

Mesapotamian?

Good guess Suzy, but that would make me Iraqi right ? No, I am not Iraqi.

What about the Romans, the Greeks or the Egyptians ? All very old civilsations.

So, I could also be Italian, Greek, or Egyptian, right ?

I was going to guess Greek.

give us a clue, go on, go on

...or South American

All excellent guesses. But I think my nationality (I have dual citizenship) is irrelevant to the discussion.

The point is, I do not find English or British culture BETTER than the one I was born with. I will therefore stick to the one I was born with !!

expatkat - you make some interesting points, none of which apply to me. I have many British friends (i.e do not live in a foreign "ghetto") and in fact dissaproive of any one who goes to any country and does not bother to integrate.

I used to go a an International School in another European capital and at the age of 18 won the "Best English Student" book award. This was in a school full of Canadian and American students, i.e. they spoke English as their mother tongue. I had only learnt English at the age of 10. i.e. in only 8 yeras my English surpassed those who had been speaking it all their lives.

I speak "English" like a native (not even a hint of a foreign accent) beacuse I love the English language. I have read more English literature and know more about English history than the average English person. Does any of this make me English or "native". No, I don't think so. I hate cricket, I hate the English weather, I hate the idea of sitiing in a pub for hours and hours after work, etc ? Does that mean I hate the English ? No, it doesn't. It just means I prefer the culture that I was born into to that of the English.

You are wrong to assume that people like me must live in a foreign ghetto with no contact with the English. That is probably true of those expats who live in the UK for many many years and never bother to learn the English language. It does not apply to those of us who speak English better than the average English person !

geekgrrl - by the way, there is nothing "English" about lamb and mint sauce. One of my favouite hobbies is cooking and studying the origins of different world dishes.

In fact the concept of cooking lamb with mint or lamb with fruit (i.e apricots, prunes, etc.)is Middle Eastern. I can give you some receipes from one Middle East cook books if you like ??

So ghollam, what is it about Enlgand that makes it worthwhile living there?

Good question Suzy.

In the long run I would like to go back to my own country, which is why it's so important for me not to lose touch with my own culture. I do not want to retire to some boring English town on the coast when I am 65 and drink PG tips with other old ladies on rainy English days!! The tought is too depressing !!

There are many, many wonderful things about England. Despite the bad press, I still think it has one of the best education sytems in the world and it has an open, relatively liberal society.

I have experience of living in several other European countries and I think the UK is still the least rascist of them all. This makes life for an expat. much easier. The lack of explicit rascism here in the UK is actually the main reason I am still here.

Very few of us natives want to do that either, ghollam

ghollam - one of my top reasons for being proud that to be british is that we are complete food whores and assimilate recipes and ingredients from around the world easily - lamb with mint sauce is an example, but my favourites are dishes that are foreign in origin/ingredients, but british in invention: kedgeree and chicken tikka massala in particular. Not to mention that international foods are more widely available in Britaoin than any European country i've been to (errm that'll be France and Spain )

Anyway I think you're right: to go native is to lose part of your own cultural identity - not necessarily all of it though. I never used to worry about this before I left the UK, but I do now.

snafu - I do! It'll be lovely. cream tea every afternoon and strolls on the pier. I may have to have some holidays too though.

snafu - quite - hence the reasons so many middle aged English people sell their houses here in the UK and go and retire in the South of Spain, etc ?

Indeed, many English people do not like the same things that I do not like here as a foreigner !!

Hmm, without bothering to learn Spanish...