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DP appears determined to feel an 'outsider' after 14 years

42 replies

NotPurpleRaptor · 24/03/2024 08:56

DP and I met 20 years ago whilst I was living overseas. Our DD was born in DP's country of birth and is now eighteen. I returned to the UK in 2008, we had some difficulty getting DP a visa but finally he got one and joined us in the UK two years later. He is now a British citizen.

Even after all these years, DP's language is still always 'we' (people from his home country) and 'you' (people from the UK). He has no British friends and says this is because English isn't his language so it's difficult. He has been in the same back-breaking job for years because he refuses all promotions as he would have to talk to the public and contractors and he doesn't want to because, again, he maintains he doesn't want to talk to people in English as it isn't his language. He spends his time at home voice messaging friends and relatives from his birth country in his first language and watching films from his birth country. He has always refused for me to have friends round to the house or to go and visit my friends and relatives as a couple, because he doesn't want to speak English.

I've often thought that he's depressed but he disagrees. He's not introverted in his birth country - we lived there together for some years and he talks to everyone and has loads of friends. He goes back for a visit every two years for a month.

Our entire relationship together over twenty years, and his relationship with our DD, has been in English, DD and I don't speak his first language, so it's untrue that speaking English is technically difficult for him.

Now we're getting older he's becoming even more entrenched in his ways. He only wants to talk to people in his birth country. He may not be depressed but he certainly doesn't appear happy. I don't know how to help him. Suggestions welcome.

OP posts:
Moonshine5 · 24/03/2024 09:30

OP do you speak his native language

breakingmews · 24/03/2024 09:33

Some people has no desire to self develop and expand. You can’t change him.

I’ve been in the UK for 19 years (I suspect I’m from the same country as your husband) - when I arrived my English was next to zero.
Now I work in corporate, give training and speak to colleagues in English all day long. Before that I was a TA in reception and Y1 teaching kids English phonics.
My English is not perfect and I do make mistakes still and have an accent that is getting lighter and lighter but I still get self concious from time to time - but we have so many different accents in London so it is not too bad.

But anyway, at the end of the day you chose him, what signs did you miss abouy him not being into growing and learning?
I’ve been there (incidently with a British native speaker) and it was soul killing so I LTB.

NotPurpleRaptor · 24/03/2024 10:13

TitusMoan · 24/03/2024 09:12

He sounds like an obstinate pain in the arse. He lives in the U.K. and won’t learn English properly, plus he won’t allow you to have friends and relatives in the house? Not sure why you’ve had such a hard time from previous posters.

I need to clarify as my OP was factually incorrect - he doesn't want people in the house when he's there, when he's not there I can have whoever I want in the house. The only reason this doesn't happen in practice is because we both work full time M-F so I'm rarely in when DP isn't. Also, I can, and do, go out by myself to visit my relatives.

OP posts:
NotPurpleRaptor · 24/03/2024 10:21

breakingmews · 24/03/2024 09:33

Some people has no desire to self develop and expand. You can’t change him.

I’ve been in the UK for 19 years (I suspect I’m from the same country as your husband) - when I arrived my English was next to zero.
Now I work in corporate, give training and speak to colleagues in English all day long. Before that I was a TA in reception and Y1 teaching kids English phonics.
My English is not perfect and I do make mistakes still and have an accent that is getting lighter and lighter but I still get self concious from time to time - but we have so many different accents in London so it is not too bad.

But anyway, at the end of the day you chose him, what signs did you miss abouy him not being into growing and learning?
I’ve been there (incidently with a British native speaker) and it was soul killing so I LTB.

I often wish we lived in an urban multicultural area, I suspect things would have turned out very differently for DP. We live in a rural market town. We could never have moved, for reasons it's too long-winded to go into here. That and the bad luck of being in a profession where workers can be cruel to others in the name of 'banter' have mostly left to this situation I think. And probably me too, I haven't been the easiest always over the years.

OP posts:
Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 24/03/2024 10:34

OP, I m sorry you have had such a lot of judgemental responses ( I wonder how many of those posters could carry out even a basic conversation in a language other then English?). Just ignore all the ‘why didn’t you?’s. You are ( both) where you are.

I think you need to sit down and have a proper conversation about your joint futures. Your partner’s life is going to get more difficult and less enjoyable as he finds the physical demands of his work more painful, and his disinclination to learn and speak the language of the country of which he is a citizen is not going to help his mood.

Meanwhile you are sharing a house with someone with who you cannot share your more complex emotions and thoughts, and who is restricting your contact with friends and possibly family. That’s not tenable for either of you as a future existence. It doesn’t matter whose ‘fault’ this is, it is just a fact for you both.

Perhaps it is time think about separate and more fulfilling life plans.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 24/03/2024 10:47

I wouldn't agree to not have friends round if you want to.

VillageOnSmile · 24/03/2024 11:02

I’m an immigrant too and I feel like an outsider too, even after 25 years….

Where you are living will have made a huge difference.
Where I live, it’s impossible to make friends for me because they are basically so narrow minded (and before anyone says it’s not true etc… it’s a feeling that a lot if other foreigners share).
In contrast, areas that are more multicultural or simply have more ‘movement’ like university towns, are much more welcoming and easier to integrate into.

Ive never faced issue with people correcting my English but again, it’s down to preconceived ideas. People feel that my French accent, turn of phrase is cute and nice. They wouldn’t think the same if let’s say Polish people (again my area - this might be different in other parts of the country).
fwiw if he now has a British citizenship, this means his English is plenty good enough because he’ll have passed the English test for it!

The really big issue for him is that after 20 years, home isn’t home anymore. He will have been influenced by British ways. Things will have changed at home. If he was to ‘move back home’ he is in fir a shock imo.

Unfortunately, I dont think you can do anything.
I know moving isn’t an option fir you just now.
And i haven’t found a way to make it easier iyswim whilst staying in a more rural location

VillageOnSmile · 24/03/2024 11:05

Just to reiterate.

Your dh now has British citizenship.
This means he has passed the English test.

He is NOT unable to speak English etc…

His issue is how he feels about it, maybe issues with racism/xenophobia (esp if he hasn’t lost his accent at all).
But I really dint think it’s an issue with his English as such

VillageOnSmile · 24/03/2024 11:07

@RedToothBrush i doubt the dd will go and live in her dad’s country.

She doesn’t speak the language
She has no particular links to it
She has lived in the U.K. all her life.
Britain is her home.

easylikeasundaymorn · 24/03/2024 11:30

NotPurpleRaptor · 24/03/2024 10:21

I often wish we lived in an urban multicultural area, I suspect things would have turned out very differently for DP. We live in a rural market town. We could never have moved, for reasons it's too long-winded to go into here. That and the bad luck of being in a profession where workers can be cruel to others in the name of 'banter' have mostly left to this situation I think. And probably me too, I haven't been the easiest always over the years.

Yes but lots of these things he has the ability to change.
He could switch careers
He could practice speaking English so he feels more confident in it(albeit if he communicates exclusively in it with you and DD he must be fluent).
He could join the local associations for people from his country that exist.

But he hasn't been bothered to do any of it. He's a grown man who holds down a full time job, brought up a child, and has moved to a completely different country - if he can do those things, the much easier suggestions above are perfectly achievable

You sound very supportive, I'm sure if he'd actually said at any point, could we move closer to a major city, I think it would make me so much happier, you would have tried to make it happen. But I highly doubt it would have made any difference at all, because sounds like he is the the sort of person who would just make excuses no matter what.

Approximately 15% of the UK population were born elsewhere, and most of them don't live like your DH. They have friends, jobs they enjoy, integrate themselves in society...obviously they probably miss their home country and might still feel like an 'outsider' but they don't put their entire life on hold for two decades.

He doesn't want to be here, and he is punishing himself (and you and his dd - is she not allowed to have friends round while her dad is home either? - by extension) for making the 'wrong' decision 20 years ago, rather than trying to make the best of it. Sounds utterly miserable and tbh I couldn't manage the rest of my life living like that.

AlienatedChildGrown · 24/03/2024 11:30

I left the U.K. in 1989. I still say “we” meaning where I come from. I never said “we” meaning all of us who live in Italy until Codogno got Red Zoned and effectively my town did too, since so many people had in person, regular contacts there.

”We” is now context dependent as a concept. But that was decades and a pandemic in the making.

My Italian has taken several hits over the years. OPOL, minor brain damage from a TIA caused by Covid, peri-menopause, age. I’m nowhere near as fluent as I used to be. I’m not the easiest of people to live with, so a decline in my ability to communicate perfectly with DH isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s hard to take offence at something unsaid because you could remember the right verb, misunderstood because you mangled it, or didn’t understand because your brain went on strike with some great timing. 😬

The things I got right I think were steering we’ll clear of the expat bubble and making sure our son was as bilingual and bicultural as I could possibly get him, given that we don’t live in my country, and we are not surrounded by my mother tongue.

In my own personal experience expat bubbles took my small irritations and amplified them into proper unhappiness. And I was desperately worried about a language/culture gap between my son and I, because I’d seen it happen in other families and the outcome was not what I wanted for myself. I think it took me about the first 15 years to work out why expat bubbles were a REALLY bad fit for me.

From 21 years old to now in my mid fifties I have been an immigrant. I always will be. I can’t and don’t want, to rid myself of the influence of my formative years, the national and micro-cultures I grew up in. I’ve shifted my thinking over time in some areas. But only once I’d reached a point when I didn’t feel defensive, or outvoted by the majority. I had to get past that in my own time.

I willingly chose being a fish out of water, and wouldn’t have it any other way. But it’s not always the easiest of paths. For the transplant, and the people who love them. It’s not always a “want to be here” versus “want to be back home” thing. It’s just ongoing growing pains of adjusting to not being in the pond you were born in. Life comes in stages and Big Events, being an immigrant (or being married to one, as DH would point out 🤣) can added a little extra on top of the struggle of adjusting to all the curve balls and inevitabilities of the march of time.

Golden Hour helps.

DH & I have one hour a day that is just us (for us it’s the first hour awake, coffee in bed, before the world, duty, kiddo etc. intrudes). I’m that grumpy and uncommunicative by the evening that we have to use dawn to get the best of each other. When there are differences, language, culture, news sources, priorities … life rain and daily shit can turn a gap into a gulf. Leaving one or both partners feeling isolated and misunderstood. The first Golden Hours were not shiny. athey are now though. Some days we might not say much. But often we get to remember what all the extra complication it was all for. And if nothing else we get to hold hands and watch another day get born, which helps me keep my wibbles in perspective.

Reconnecting as “us”, even with few words, let alone any analysis of underlying issues, can be really helpful in kick starting the process of tackling any unhappiness, immigrant status related or otherwise.

breakingmews · 24/03/2024 11:37

NotPurpleRaptor · 24/03/2024 10:21

I often wish we lived in an urban multicultural area, I suspect things would have turned out very differently for DP. We live in a rural market town. We could never have moved, for reasons it's too long-winded to go into here. That and the bad luck of being in a profession where workers can be cruel to others in the name of 'banter' have mostly left to this situation I think. And probably me too, I haven't been the easiest always over the years.

I understand and although I have no experience living and working in the UK outside London, I suspect my life would have not turned out the way it did if I wasn’t here.

TheNewDeer · 24/03/2024 14:52

NotPurpleRaptor · 24/03/2024 09:16

Yes. He wouldn't have got a visa at all otherwise, we tried getting him one so we could come together but it was refused. The only solution was for me to come to the UK, secure us a house, and get a job which earned the minimum income to get a spouse visa. I did all this, with a toddler, and the first visa application from the UK was still refused. I worked hard to build a life for us in those two years, worked with an immigration charity, appealed the visa decision and the appeal was accepted. I cried in court with happiness that day and DP cried in happiness when I rang him with the news.

in that two years
when his wife and child were in another country… setting up roots, and a job and a home… how involved was he with, well, anything?

i imagine after two years he arrived and very much felt like a “guest” in the life you’d built

TheNewDeer · 24/03/2024 14:54

you and he simply do not sound happy. Together

Daichead · 24/03/2024 15:01

My Dad was like this, and he’s Irish, so spoke the language and was only an hours flight away from home!

But Ireland was always ‘home’. He only had Irish friends (bar one Jamaican guy he played dominoes with). He worked for an Irish contractor with majority Irish men, and only socialised in Irish clubs, pubs and at the Irish Centre. His interests were Irish politics, history and music. He read the Irish newspapers and mostly talked about Ireland.

He wasn’t rude, though. My Mum had non-Irish friends around and he was friendly and welcoming, but he clearly missed home and I felt it keenly all through my childhood.

He returned to Ireland after 30 years in London (he’d separated from my Mum years earlier) and he is so much more gregarious, outgoing and involved in the community there. He was homesick and it sounds like your DH is too.

VillageOnSmile · 24/03/2024 16:12

Not so long ago (I’m assuming you’re talking about the 1970s here) there was also a strong sentiment against Irish people.
Signs like ‘no dog, no Irish’ at the entrance of pubs.

If your dad arrived in that environment, there is no wonder why he stuck connecting to Irish people rather than English….

OnHerSolidFoundations · 24/03/2024 17:34

Your posts sound sad op.
Can you 2 maybe move somewhere more multicultural now DD is at uni?

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