bringing up 2nd child as a muslim

[allybongo66]

Hi,
Where do I start!!!
My eldest daughter (26) is pregnant with her second child - she split up with the father of her 1st child when her daughter was about 1 - she has been in a relationship with her muslim boyfriend for 5ish years and her daughter calls him daddy - she is basically not religious just does the normally xmas, easter etc. He is a practicing muslim though not devout but does the usual religious stuff - mosque on a friday etc. She has told me that the baby is going to be brought up a muslim and is going to have a muslim name aswell ( we are white british). I know it makes me sound racist but I'm defininately not. I have issues with her decision- how can you bring one child up basically atheist and another muslim? How will that play out with the older sister? Is she going to feel pushed out, different? I would prefer that its not brought up with any religion and for the child to make the choice when it's at an age where it can understand the cultural and religious differences and not be forced to follow one path or another. Is one child going to be allowed to eat what she wants and the other only Halal? One child eating pork the other not! It seems like its going to be a total minefield! Also in all the years she has been with him she has not met one member of his family - which I find strange but have been told that they are only introduced to the family when they plan to get married! I feel it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to us as her family that it won't be brought up like us but I suppose I'm just being selfish in that respect, but I do feel that she hasn't thought it through properly. Is there anyone else who's been through this dilemma? Advice and reassurance would be greatly appreciated!

[merrymouse]

I'm glad the parents are nice and his family tolerant.

Not 'tolerant' enough to meet his pregnant partner apparently. Again it sounds like the cultural issue is a red herring and he just doesn't want to be honest. It's ridiculous to suggest that he is following any kind of cultural tradition that parents don't meet partners unless they are going to get married when his girlfriend is pregnant. They might disapprove, but then ultimately he or they will have to make a choice whether it's more important to maintain appearances or raise a child.

A 'good dad' has equal responsibility for their child, would take complete responsibility if necessary and puts their child's needs first, so I am sceptical about how you are defining 'good dad'. A 'good dad' at the very least acknowledges his relationship. Maybe you mean he behaves like a family friend. That's fine, but it isn't the same as being a father.

Again, I think his faith is confusing the issue. It sounds as though your daughter has met one of the many men who are happy to string somebody along for occasional companionship and sex, but really don't want the commitment of being part of a family. (At least not part of any family where they can't be an eternal child).

These men are all over the relationships pages of mumsnet.

[merrymouse]

I didn't stop caring for my parents when I had children.

Presumably you didn't have to provide care for your parents to such an extent that you couldn't live with your children. Presumably you didn't have to deny their existence.

It's true that teenage girls sometimes try to hide pregnancy, but we expect more of 27 year old women.

[Whattodo23]

She hopes to miscarry? Have I understood that correctly? Wtf

[MaryTheCanary]

" It sounds as though your daughter has met one of the many men who are happy to string somebody along for occasional companionship and sex, but really don't want the commitment of being part of a family."

Yup, this. The religion is a complicating factor, but the main problem here (flakey guy using a woman and offering nothing in return) is something you do see even without the religious issue.

She needs to find out what is going on here. In particular, she has to clarify the financial issues. Is she getting support from the father of the older child? Lots of things to sort out here.

[MrsPeelyWaly]

OP, you should track down the blokes family if they exist.

[usefultoken]

The whole situation makes quite a lot of sense to me as someone with a lot of Pakistani friends. There are huge consequences for his parents of siblings of him having this relationship, including his siblings marriages. It's wrong but it's the way it is. I'm slightly thrown now you've said his siblings are already married to white people though. That suggests that he could have married your daughter had he wished to.
In terms of bringing children up, I think children are very accepting and the fact that there will be a 5/6 year age gap will help. And things could change further down the line. I know more than 1 person who agreed to bring children up as Muslim and later became Muslim themselves (and more pious that their husbands).

[ShineyNewName]

I don't see how the kid will be Muslim past the name. It's hardly like he's going to be able to raise it since it's secret and she's not Muslim herself to teach it anything. I doubt it will be raised Muslim when it actually comes down to it.

[muhajaba]

No decent practising Muslim man would have a relationship like this. No decent man of any religion would keep his pregnant girlfriend secret.
In our religion this is a completely unacceptable relationship, your daughter is being treated like a whore. The idea that if she expressed an interest in marrying him he would tell his family what he's been doing for the last 5 years and everything would be fine, is absolute rubbish. I don't want to sound mean but she needs to open her eyes and get a grip.

[ShineyNewName]

muhajaba I think op sort of knows that but whenever she speaks to her daughter he daughter won't hear a bad word about the "relationship"
Really sad. I've seen it happen a few times. Much, much worse when a kid is involved too. Just so selfish of him! No decent man of any religion you say, no decent man full stop I say. What man genuinely likes a woman and wants to keep her secret? And what sort of man would get her pregnant and still keep it secret? It's messed up. I don't think any good man would do that, religious or not.

Just hopefully, for the mother and both the kids sake, he's gone sooner rather than later. Imagine that kid growing up and finding out it's a secret. If he just goes the family can get along with raising the child without all the mess he'd inevitably cause eventually.

[muhajaba]

ShineyNewName Completely agree with everything you said. I've seen various relationships like this too and the fallout has always been awful, especially for the children.

My comment might have sounded a bit harsh but what I was trying to say is that a feisty independent woman would never put up with this kind of treatment. No kind of woman should, it's disgraceful. I think she's kidding herself and it will end in disaster unfortunately.

OP if your daughter is defensive about the relationship then maybe just suggest to her that since she will be raising a Muslim child that she looks into Islam. She would soon learn that his behaviour is unacceptable even in his own religion and it might make her think a bit. I would also try to steer her towards choosing a name that both Muslims and non Muslims use (there are loads, especially for girls) as it seems unlikely this child will actually end up being raised Muslim.

[Bestthingever]

I've known people in blended families to cope with this but I think your dd has a bigger problem than that. My dh is a Muslim. He's not very strict (he drinks alcohol). However no decent Muslim man would allow his child to be born without marrying the mother. It shows he has zero respect for her. He sounds dodgy.

[originalbiglymavis]

If she is doing this for him - whatever he reason - he needs to step up and be the dad. Not keep her and the baby a little secret from his parents. The parents who will be wondering why he isn't married and possibly keeping their eyes open for a suitable woman for him.

It's sounds like he is more muslim with a small M than a particularly practicing one.

So why bring the child up in a religion that the mum does not practise, nor is it the main religion of country/community in which the child will live, just on the basis of 'dad is a muslim'? Has he asked that this be the case? Or does she think that this will make him and his family more accepting?

[emelsie]

me and my partner (daughters dad) are around the same age as your daughter and her partner , Im white British and my partner is also a muslim, there can be numerous issues that come up, are you sure they are not already raising the 1st child muslim?
maybe they have cut pork out of the household , she could even have been married to him secretly (I know a few women who have done so , an Islamic marriage isn't recognised here and its not compulsory to have a civil marriage ). can I ask where his family originate from? as this can make a difference sometimes in how the culture effects religion etc.

[Bobbins43]

Marrying in secret is really frowned upon culturally speaking.

[howrudeforme]

I cannot at all understand how you'd bring up children in varying ways. I'm mixed and my parents took me to births/deaths/marriages for their different faiths. I was not brought up exclusively on one or the other.

This used to be a multicultural country and now I'm old I cannot understand the exclusivity around bringing up 'mixed' children. What happened?

[Voice0fReason]

This has got disaster written all over it.

[Macarena1990]

Bestthingever - my dp is muslim, I'm christian (well born one), we aren't married but have been together for 13 years and have 3 kids. I think he is decent!!!!

We are leaving our children to decide their own faith, but they do partake in both.

[originalbiglymavis]

Exactly. I think that unless one parent is especially religious then one shouldnt trump the other. Especially if it's mum doing all the heavy lifting and dad flitting in and out as he fancies.

[Mumski45]

OP I think you are right to be concerned about this from the point of view of the refusal to marry or live together as a proper family. However I think the practicalities of bringing the children up within different religions are less of an issue.

If she genuinely wants to co-operate in bringing her child up as a muslim out of love and respect for her partner they can find a way to make it work through compromise and discussion, by working out what is important to them and what is merely a cultural tradition that they choose not to follow.

I am a Christian as is my oldest DD. My DH and my 2 younger DS's who are all muslim so I am aware of the issues and we have managed this successfully over the years.

However this co-operation is based on a strong commitment to each other and the acceptance by both our families of our marriage and decisions.

I think many PP are being a bit harsh on your DD's partner saying "he wants to have his cake and eat it" and I can see how this looks if you are more familiar with one culture than the other. The way I see it is he has not yet made that break from being part of his birth family to being responsible for his own family and putting them first. He is trying to keep everyone happy and avoid difficult confrontations. I can't see this working long term and to create a stable relationship with your daughter he needs to make a decision to put her first when needed even if this upsets his family.

This does not appear to be a result of parental expectations as you mentions his siblings are already involved in relationships with white (presumably no muslim) partners and must therefore be a reluctance on his part to make that final separation from his parents.

Making this decision with a baby already on the way is not easy as it creates an added pressure and may result in the wrong decision out of guilt but I think this is the more important issue that you need to be advising your daughter on although I appreciate that this won't be easy if she is fiercely independent.