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Multicultural families

Here's where to share your experience of raising a child or growing up in a multicultural family.

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Original poster

Explaining to three year old about not celebrating christmas

90 replies

alteredimages · 30/11/2013 12:47

Hello

We are a Muslim family living in France, I am from a white British background, DH is Egyptian and we have a 3 year old DD who is in the petite section of maternelle, which is like full time nursery in the UK.

Christmas is coming up and this is the first year DD has really taken notice. She has all ready decorated a christmas tree at school and made decorations and has taken a real shine to father christmas, though I don't know if she realises he brings presents.

I am struggling to explain to her that as Muslims we don't celebrate Christmas without conveying the impression that those who do are bad or wrong. All my side of thw family do celebrate and sometimes send presents for DD, though we don't tell her the presents are for Christmas. On the other hand, I don't want her to feel like she's getting a raw deal and that being a Muslim is second best. Anyone with any experience of this kind of thing or any ideas how to explain to a very hyper three year old?

OP posts:

nicename · 02/12/2013 14:14

I'm confused as to what a multicultural family would only want to celebrate (or acknowledge) 50% of their culture.

That's converts/born agains for you...

SirChenjin · 02/12/2013 14:20

It's the idea that one religion or culture should take precedent over another that really doesn't sit right with me. I would find it very difficult to accept that any of my DCs should marry someone who would require them to relinquish their entire background, culture, customs or heritage

nicename · 02/12/2013 14:29

How do you square it with the rest of your family - parents, siblings... the kids cousins etc? It's hardly teaching them tolerance is it?

"When mummy was little Santa came to visit with toys and we had carols and turkey and crackers and a tree... we had a lovely family time. That's all crap and that side of the family are all going to hell because they are completely wrong in what they do, believe, think, eat, drink...."

As I have said before, half of my family are muslim and they do 'do' Christmas (with other celebrations too). They have never said anything against other religions, and respect people of faith.

Its maybe cultural to refuse to have anything to do with any other culture/religion - some parts of the world are incredibly intolerant than others when it comes to religion. Some wouldn't even accept the OP as a 'real' muslim.

SirChenjin · 02/12/2013 14:36

The OP has already described Egypt - "quite apart from Egyptian society being incredibly judgemental and closed minded, especially with girls".

Why, why, why would anyone want to move their child to a culture that they see as close minded and judgemental, esp. with women? . I'd be running for the nearest hill...

nicename · 02/12/2013 15:04

It certainly wouldn't be top of my list of places to emigrate to, with the political situation as it is. All of the women I know who have visited there have had some pretty awful stories to tell of being pestered, goosed/groped, propositioned, insulted. I'd be wary of taking a daughter there (esp as the op states that her dd is pale/euroi in looks).

cornflakegirl · 02/12/2013 15:04

SirChenjin from the OP's posts, it sounds like she has embraced the tenets of Islam and decided that means she needs to put aside some things she used to do, not that her DH has required her to do that.

nicename · 02/12/2013 15:23

So where does multiculturalism fit in? Or does her new found religion trump that?

She will find it a different kettle of fish living in a muslim country. Not the religion but the culture. She will for ever be seen as 'the foreigner' and her children will be foreigners too.

I speak as a foreigner married to an even more foreigner.

WallyBantersJunkBox · 02/12/2013 15:34

Taking Islam aside - and referring your comments about moving to Egypt.

I've spent several Christmas periods in Egypt. There is a substantial population of Coptic Christians that very much do celebrate Christmas albeit not in the commercial way that we do in the UK. And there are plenty of inflatable Santa's wilting in the heat!

So moving to Egypt won't "eliminate" the issue so to speak.

I also feel very sad that you seem to be rubbing out half of your heritage.

cornflakegirl · 02/12/2013 15:40

Multiculturalism doesn't mean we all have to celebrate every festival. It means it's okay for other people to be different - the very thing the OP said she was looking to establish for her daughter.

TheDietStartsTomorrow · 02/12/2013 15:47

There are many Muslims living in non Muslim countries that don't celebrate Christmas. Your DC will get used to whatever is the norm in your family. We've never celebrated Christmas because Christmas is a religious festival even if some atheists and other non Christians consider it to be secular. Therefore, to be a Muslim and still observe the Christian festival does feel hypocritical.

We have gifts on other occasions throughout the year and not only on festivals. The children accept this and are more than happy with the arrangement. We don't have any other special traditions at this time of the year either although we do enjoy the holiday itself. This is what the family are used to and it suits us best this way.

That is not to say we are completely ignorant of Christmas. We acknowledge it with friends and neighbours around us and extend festive greetings to them. We buy gifts for a few neighbours who seem particularly lonely at this time of the year and occasionally send cards out. But we really give at Eid time. Not necessarily presents, but we give a lot of food out. I bake and cook a lot at Eid time and we share this with other non Muslim families too. It works well for all of us- we give to them at Eid, they give to us at Christmas. I can imagine it would be a bit of a pain for them if we expected them to bake some Eid goodies and send them to us mid week when Eid arrived, or to go looking for a present at Eid time when they were not celebrating Eid themselves.

Do what feels right and don't make it burdensome upon yourselves. My DD aged 4 was asking a lot of questions about Christmas a few days ago when we were out shopping. I explained the origin of Christmas and why Christians celebrate it and because Jesus is a prophet of Islam too, I also explained what we believe about Jesus and how we express our love and respect for the Prophet Jesus in our own way.

Children needn't be confused by differences in religion. You just need to explain it to them in a way that their little minds can understand without giving anything a negative spin and being clear on your own beliefs whilst showing tolerance for others.

SirChenjin · 02/12/2013 15:48

it sounds like she has embraced the tenets of Islam and decided that means she needs to put aside some things she used to do

Yes, it does - which refers back to my earlier point that it seems a shame (and far from multicultural) that one religion can demand that anyone converting to it must put aside their previous religion, culture, custom, heritages. I suspect though that this approach is at the more extreme end of that particular religion though.

TheDietStartsTomorrow · 02/12/2013 15:58

That's all crap and that side of the family are all going to hell because they are completely wrong in what they do, believe, think. eat, drink ...'

nicename, that's obviously NOT the way to explain things. Why would anyone want to be to antagonistic in explaining religion to a young child.

Would you explain Islam to a young child in the same negative way?

Grennie · 02/12/2013 16:02

Just explain that different people, celebrate different festivals.

Every Muslim I know in the UK, does celebrate Christmas by the way.

SirChenjin · 02/12/2013 16:12

Why would anyone want to ignore their DD's heritage TheDietStartsTomorrow? It might not be antagonistic, but it's baffling and negative - given that the OP has posted on the 'multicultural families' topic board.

SirChenjin · 02/12/2013 16:12

their DD's and their own heritage

nicename · 02/12/2013 16:17

The message is just that to small children. A child's view of religion is very black and white.

So my lovely mummy converted. She loves God and God loves her... hang on... what about Granny? She believes in something else... something that we are taught is just wrong. Will she go to heaven? If I pray extra hard, will God forgive her?...

My family weren't all fire and brimstone but I had a teacher who certainly was. I was only in primary 1, but remember being basically told that anyone who didn't believe/repent/whatever just didn't get into heaven (and you know the alternative) - end of. My grandfather has just died and I remember worrying if he had gone to hell because he had been in the war and had more than likely killed. She also told me that my recently departed dog wasn't in heaven either.

To teach a child that they are exclusively 'right' in their beliefs can indeed cause them to worry that 'granny x wont go to heaven, but granny Y will'. I would also worry (as a child) that since mummy had done things in her past that were now 'forbidden', that she would not be forgiven either.

Or maybe I was just an over sensitive and thoughtful child.

SirChenjin · 02/12/2013 16:28

No, I think you are absolutely spot on Nicename. I can remember my bible-thumper of a Head Mistress in primary school telling us all that if we wouldn't go to heaven if we hadn't been Christened. My parents hadn't Christened my sister and she came home from school very upset as she had been told that she wasn't going to go to heaven, so at 5 she pleaded with my parents to have her Christened (this was the seventies...education has moved on since then thankfully).

Children can - and do - believe what they are told by grown ups, so teaching them that one religion alone is somehow better in that it trumps all other heritages and cultures, requires you to give up any previous beliefs you held, and will guarantee you forgiveness and a route to the afterlife is taken literally.

nicename · 02/12/2013 16:40

I am proud to say that DS knows about the major religions, accepts that great-grandpa and great-grandma were Muslim, grandma and grandpa were Christian and they are all off in heaven.

I will not have him looking down on another persons beliefs/non beliefs and have taught him that a person may profess to be a good [insert religion of choice here] yet still be a bad/intolerant/bigoted person. Someone may have no faith but be a wonderful person, who does good for others, lives a good life and does no harm to themselves and others.

cornflakegirl · 02/12/2013 17:19

TheDiet - that sounds like a lovely accommodation that you've reached.

SirChenjin - the OP isn't talking about ignoring her DD's heritage. She doesn't want to celebrate the festival of a religion she doesn't follow. Just because other people are happy to hang on to the non-religious bits of Christmas doesn't mean that she has to. Multiculturalism doesn't mean sticking all beliefs, customs and cultural practices in a bit pot and giving them a good stir. It's fine to be selective.

fuzzywuzzy · 02/12/2013 18:00

We don't celebrate Christmas either, when younger I explained to my children it wasn't our religion.

I never bothered going into massive details about it.

We do however make very big deal over both Eid's and Ramadan as well which ends up being one month of festivities and going to people houses/masjids to break fast together.

When we were growing up my dad always made us send cards to people who sent them to us and reciprocate gifts which we did.

We also used to go see the lights in Oxford street. And we all enjoyed the two weeks Christmas holiday for school.
Now that I'm the grown up, I do use the time off to meet family and friends and have long lazy meals and catch up on gossip whilst the kids play together.

I've always maintained Christmas is my most favourite festival that I don't celebrate.

Explain it to your DD she'll be fine with it.

TheDietStartsTomorrow · 02/12/2013 18:22

SirChenjin the argument about ignoring her heritage is a lame one. Are you saying you would uphold all of the traditions and beliefs your parents had just so that you could 'honour your heritage'? People change, times change and families change. If you upheld all the traditions of the religions of your forefathers you'd be celebrating many religions at any one go.

Just because you were born into a family that believed and practised something, it doesn't mean you are dishonouring them if you chose to do things differently.

SirChenjin · 02/12/2013 18:55

Lame in your opinion TheDietStartsTomorrow - my opinion differs. The fact is that her husband's religion has required her to drop her previous beliefs, cultures, etc in order to become a Muslim - it's got nothing to do with families changing. Interesting that one religion seems to have the monopoly here.

And if we are talking about 'dishonouring' then presumably her husband and his family won't see it as being dishonourable to the Muslim faith if his DD or the OP want to celebrate Christmas/winter festival/solstice/whatever at some level.

EvilRingahBitch · 02/12/2013 19:11

The only opinion that matters is that of the OP, and she is very clear that God does not wish her to take part in any non-Muslim festivals - whether that is Christmas, Saturnalia, Winterval - or (depending on stance, Bonfire night or a two year olds birthday party). God's clearly stated opinion on the subject is going to trump any other view, just as any other strong moral conviction will trump routine considerations of good manners. Vegetarians don't eat turkey because it's traditional or to be polite to their hosts. I don't laugh at racist jokes even if it's my dear old grandma telling them. And the OP doesn't celebrate non-Muslim festivals.

SirChenjin · 02/12/2013 19:29

And reasonable vegetarians don't insist that everyone else gives up meat....

There have been a number of posts on here giving suggestions as to how the OP could deal with the matter without having to resort to hiding presents that her family send. I hope she'll find something amongst them that will help her without putting the fear of God (in whatever form he/she takes) into her DD.

kelda · 02/12/2013 19:40

The OP doesn't say she hides the presents family send her dd - she just says that she doesn't call them Christmas presents.

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