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Jehova Witnesses

42 replies

Dodsey · 27/10/2005 23:39

DS1 has just started school & had a birthday party today with some of his new(& old!) friends.One Mum phoned to say that as they were J.W.'s they didn't celebrate birthdays & he couldn't come. Now my response was( & still is ), no problem we'll arrange a play date at a later time. But now I'm curious. If DS1 had been invited to a classmates religious festival eg. holi or diwali, I would have had no problem sending him to learn & experience something new. Why is this situation different.Are birthdays sinful in some way? I'm just really curious & I can't ask the other Mum as I don't want to upset or offend her, she's really lovely & I do think we'll get on well when our boys play together. Can someone enlighten me without shooting me down in flames. I'm just really curious about this.

OP posts:
spooklymieow · 28/10/2005 15:48

Thanks Alicesmama. Its surprises me just what I remember, I do believe in God as does DH, but we struggle with regilion.

suzywong · 28/10/2005 16:03

Now I don't want to offend anyone....but may I suggest, as in all religions, a sense of "otherness" is essential in order to instill cohesion and the concept of being special. Just like circumcision, allowing divorce or fasting it is the True Christians, taken from the "True Christians give gifts and have good times together at other times during the year" guideline that I used to make this point.

What I mean is that all religions need taglines and club membership rules and is one.

Please, please understand that I don't meant to single out JWs or disparage ther religion, I am just suggesting it be looked at from an anthropological POV

Dodsey · 28/10/2005 19:44

Really interesting info. Sorry MarsLady this is the first thread I've started & got caught up on the festival side of things. I understand all that's been said but now i'm really nosey, Spooklymieow what did you feel like when party invitations were going out & you as a small child were excluded. I guess that's the bit that dismays me, in a way I wish I'd known not to invite this little boy so he didn't have to get upset (if he did!)

OP posts:
spooklymieow · 28/10/2005 19:46

It didn't really bother me that much as I knew that I couldn't go anyway IYSWIM. We had parties with the other witnesses all the time, so never missed out in that aspect.

Nightynight · 28/10/2005 20:01

I do find it a bit odd though, not to let her son go to a birthday party. We have some differences in our family traditions from people around us, but I cant imagine refusing to let my children go to another child's party, even if it was for another religion or a saints day celebration, or anything else that we dont celebrate in our family.

I think it is possible to maintain ones own religious/cultural traditions, while letting children participate in others.

littlerach · 28/10/2005 20:10

DD1's friend's mum is a Witness.
She doesn't have bday parties for the children, but has a teddy bears picnic in the summer and a going back to school party in the autumn. This is her way of doing it for them.
WRT other people's parties, she won't take the girls herself, but is quite happy for their dad or gran to take them.

A girl that worked with was a Witness, and she told me that she celebrated the day that she became a Witness, rather than er bday.

NotQuiteCockney · 28/10/2005 20:22

The Calvinists (I think it was ... some sort of Luther-era early Protestant group) believed the 144000 people thing. They weren't sure whether or not heaven was full yet, but they were going to be good anyway ...

(I'm going on memory here, may not be entirely right.)

colinandcaitlinsmommy · 28/10/2005 21:50

Ok, maybe I shouldn't post this, because I don't want to come across like how could you do this, I'm just genuinely confused. I've read this thread and others and I just honestly don't understand. In fact I wander around the house because I just can't get my mind around things.

I guess 1st I should say I was a witness for the 1st 25 years of my life.

When I was growing up I and my friends were never allowed to go to friends houses after school or any parties. The 1 party I had was all Witnesses with no "worldly" people allowed to be invited. This policy wasn't just in my family or in 1 congregation, it was the same in the few states we lived in.

Once I and about 1/2 of my work colleagues had to work overnight to reset the entire scheme of my job. In the morning my boss took all of us out to a quick breakfast before we went home to thank us. I was seen by someone in the congregation and at the next meeting was given a "gentle reminder" by 2 of the elders in a room about curbing worldly association.

And my friend, whose house book study was in, was showing an elder their new computer afterwards. The elders saw that he was a member of an online techy type chat forum and talked to him later using an article about the dangers of internet chat rooms and how just as we wouldn't associate with worldly people IRL we wouldn't online either. I heard the same information given as a talk during the local needs portion of the TMS in a different state that I was working seldom worked territory in.

My family won't have anything to do with me after I made it clear I wasn't coming back, except for discussing major health issues (I'm not DFed) and I know other families who have done the same thing to their children.

Like I said, and I know it will probably be taken this way, I'm not trying to bash the religion (my entire family are members, and I still love them)or question other Witnesses for what they have done (especially when i don't see how it is "wrong" at all) , but reading things about how others got to associate with their friends after school, or go to coffee with their friends now, or are even able to be on here just blows my mind. I can't believe that other people actually got to do this when I got in trouble for it. I've wanted to post this on other threads, but don't want to be taken the wrong way. I don't know why I'm so confounded, or why it even matters, I just literally cannot comprehend being able to do that. Sorry for the ramble, I guess I just needed to post to try to give my head some peace.

And please don't take it the wrong way.

Dodsey · 28/10/2005 23:59

littlerach now I'm more confused. Why is a teddy bears picnic or a Going Back To School party more acceptable than a birthday party? They are all man made too.

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HRHQoQ · 29/10/2005 00:02

"You shall not partake of the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood."

I take it they don't celebrate/believe in Holy Communion in any shape or form then? As that is symbolising the blood of Jesus.........

JanH · 29/10/2005 00:06

Surely "partake of" in that context means eating? I mean there would have been no concept of blood tranfusions when that was written.

And yes, Dodsy, I agree completely about there being no diff between a back-to-school party and a birthday party - the distinctions are completely arbitrary. Crackers. (Sorry, JWs)

Mojomummy · 29/10/2005 00:16

Dodsey, perhaps it's because teddy bears picnics & going back to school parties aren't banned in the bible

FWIW my dad ISN'T a JW & yet he hasn't been to either of my DD's birthday parties.

colinanscaitlinsmommy, didn't you have friends within your religon to play with ? How old were you when you left ?

RnBlood · 08/11/2005 12:39

I was brought up as a JW too. My mum is still a JW and my dad was until he died (he was considered one of the 'annointed 144000).

They are generally lovely people, but I have to agree with what you have said Alux. It is not true that JWs cannot read the bible, but unfortuately it is true that no free thought is encouraged. The correct answer to a question is the one you are told, not something you reason yourself. This is a fact and the reason I would never be a JW again.

Rhubarb · 08/11/2005 12:48

ColinandCaitlinsmummy, that is a very sad story. I'm equally stunned that you never got to do any of these things yourself. Can I ask you if this has caused you difficulties with your own children? Do they get invited to parties? Do you see them doing things that you never got to do? How does that make you feel? Do you still feel as though you are somehow doing wrong?

I would hazard an opinion here and say that what the JW religion did to you was wrong. One of the things a cult does is to cut you off from everything that is not related to their religion, so you are effectively brainwashed. I know the JW religion is not classified as a cult, but this story shocks me and highlights how some strands of the religion are shockingly cult-like.

I hope you can reconcile yourself with your childhood one day. It must be very difficult for you with all of your family still JWs, do they ever see your children? I feel for you very much.

likklemum · 13/11/2005 01:36

My DP's aunty and cousin are JW's. I have a real difficulty in getting my head round it as I have experienced all the JWs I have known, contradicting what they preach.
For instance, my DP's family will not give Christmas presents, but will receive them.
Children in my class cannot go to assembly, but were allowed treatment in hospital after an accident.
Did they not predict the end of the earth to happen years ago?!

Funnily enough, JW's arrived at our door. Instead of wondering what to say etc, DP asked (from top window -this was before DS and was late morning Saturday - need I say more?!) if they knew his Aunty. He then informed them that any further info he needed, he would get straight from the family! When asked if he read the Bible, he replied "I'm getting there mate...Its a long old book!!". I have never seen JWs scurry away faster. NOIntended

kaansmum · 17/12/2005 00:17

I sit opposite a JW at work and often have discussions with him about his faith. He is generally a nice enough guy but it is shame to see someone so utterly taken in by what I consider to be a very controlling cult.

He is really nothing more than an automoton, who, as far as I can see has been guilt tripped and brainwashed into spending all his free time studying what is printed in the Watchtower and regurgitating it at JW meetings. Ironically, I'm sure he sees me, and his other "wordly" colleagues as disadvantaged by not being a JW.

He knows that I am far too open minded and strong a character to ever be likely to be vulnerable to the JWs particular brand of brainwashing but I like him as a person and respect his rights to practice whatever faith he chooses.

Unlike many religions, JWs seem to have no charitable side. Sure they do help people but I consider they are extremely disingenuous and without question always have a hidden agenda and ulterior motive for heping non JWs - always to lure in potential new adherents and swell the ranks of the "other sheep" as the non annointed "chosen" JWs are called.

I often have discussions with my colleague about JW children and their inability to celebrate things like birthdays and Christmas. He always maintains that they do not miss out or feel sorry about this in any way.

I'd like to know then how the JWs explain away the fact that so many children brought up as JWs shun the faith as soon as they are able to escape parental control.

I wouldn't mind betting that by far and away the greatest proprotion of committed JWs are those who came to the faith as vulnerable adults with a gaping hole in their life which the JWs were able to fill.

RnB · 17/12/2005 01:01

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