How to Afford a Second Child?

[MiniLob]

My husband (late 40s) and I (late 30s) have one child and have been discussing a second but I'm not sure how we might afford it. We earn roughly the same, bringing home c.£3,400 and c.£3,300 per month (so £6,700 in total).

Our outgoings are:
£2,800 - mortgage
£340 - council tax
£300 - gas and electric
£100 - water
£700 - housekeeping (food, toiletries, bank account fee, window cleaning, any items we need for the house)
£600 - cars (fuel, repairs, tax, MOT, insurance for two cars, train fares)
£100 - nursery
£15 - TV licence
£83 - Virgin broadband and TV
£18 - Spotify
£13 - Netflix
£13 - National Trust
£3.50 - Woodland Trust
£3 - insurance for TV
£50 - home insurance (we set this aside to pay annually but it doesn't actually cover the full amount)
£40 - football for little one
Total: £5,178.50

Then we put aside:
£200 - holiday
£100 - savings for little one
£100 - clothes (for all 3 of us - husband gets through at least one suit and one wear of work shoes per year which eats into the budget quite a lot)
£100 - presents and Christmas (we spend £30-£40 per family member on birthdays and £75-£100 per family household at Christmas, £15 on Mother's Day/Father's Day, up to £100 on little one's birthday, then a main Christmas present and a stocking for little one at Christmas (probably up to £300 in total) - the budget also covers any other birthdays we have to buy presents for, as well as the cost of Christmas dinner and hosting over Christmas)
£100 - "fun money" in case we're invited to do something with family / friends or go to visit / stay with family or friends
£500 - me (personal money - charity contributions, mobile phone, gym / sports, alcohol, birthday / Christmas/ Father's Day gifts for hubby, basically anything that doesn't come from one of the other budgets, savings - I tend to try to put £200 aside each month in savings, donate £50 to charity and spend £250)
£500 - husband (personal money, as above, though I think his charity contributions are more than mine)
Total: £1,600

Total outgoings: c.£6,778.50

If I was to take maternity leave, I would receive full pay for 3 months, half pay for 3 months, statutory pay for 3 months and nothing for 3 months.

First 3 months: no issue
Second 3 months: £4,950 short
Third 3 months (assuming 13 weeks): £7,466.66 short
Fourth 3 months: £9,990 short

Total shortfall: £22,316.66

I would be able to use my accrued annual leave to receive a month of pay, so that would bring the shortfall down to £19,016.66.

We could obviously cut the holiday savings for that year, bringing down the shortfall to £16,616.66.

We could also ditch the "fun money", bringing the shortfall down further to £15,416.66.

We could reduce our personal money by £150 each per month, so £300 less each month, a further reduction in the shortfall to £13,016.66.

I think we'd struggle to cut down by any more. It also doesn't account for having to buy baby things (for example new car seats - the current ones we have for the little one were £650 each and we have two of them, but he'll still be in them for a few years so we can't hand them down - furniture for the baby's bedroom, clothes).

We don't have any savings.

So, any suggestions on how we can go about finding £13k to be able to afford a second child? Obviously, time is of the essence, given our respective ages!

I remember my friend being honest and saying she knew they could afford a child but she wasn’t sure she wanted to change her lifestyle that much and I think you might be in the same place.

You see mums looking exhausted partly because all the things that made them look and feel human have eked out of their life- I might go to the beautician and hairdresser once a year, we never go out to dinner, I don’t buy new clothes unless I literally have nothing to put on my body because the other has eg holes. I bring food/ snacks most places, haven’t been a member of a gym for the last ten years, subscriptions all gone except Netflix, sometimes use the kid’s shampoo or dh’s shower gel. It sounds grim but it happens over time and you’re too busy thinking about the things you have to think about to care that much! But I know people who would never ever let that happen and that’s their prerogative and maybe it’s right but I’m happy with my children choices!

That's really interesting advice.

My husband has a pension but money's worthless. We haven't always been in this position (I used to work a minimum wage job full time plus three part time jobs, we had a house with no furniture or curtains for a couple of years, no holidays etc) so I only recently started contributing.

We're in a very nice position now and after years of being very sensible - not travelling, while others were, running very old cars, no fancy possessions etc, no room to host family and friends - I feel like we're ready for this life. We both also have very demanding jobs and I think the offset is the comforts we now have.

We do get child benefit now, I actually forgot to put that £100 on there.

As for childcare, with the 30 hours of funding, it'll work out at roughly £100 per month, by which time our first born would be out of nursery and in school.

My husband is on his feet all day, hence the shoes get worn out. And his suits are absolutely done after a year - freying, shiny knees etc.

It's sad to think about stopping the charity contributions.

As for childcare, with the 30 hours of funding, it'll work out at roughly £100 per month, by which time our first born would be out of nursery and in school.

will you need wrap around care though?

My 30 hours funding only reduced my bill but I think it’s changed now.

@MiniLob are you not saving into a pension?

So the question here is how much of your current lifestyle you're prepared to give up to have a second child. You earn enough to feed, house and clothe two, but at the moment you are funding a lifestyle that doesn't afford you two children. And it's fine by the way if you decide you don't want to make those sacrifices, many do, including me. Your choice. But practically everything on the second part of your list (£1600) could go. Those are all things that many people who have children, especially multiple children, are not doing or have put on hold in order to afford children. So no holiday for a few years, park the savings for your existing child for now, your husband makes do with the clothes he already owns, get rid of the gym memberships, spending on presents reduces to £10 max, limit your trips to free parks and venues only, much cheaper/charity shop gifts for your son at birthday and Christmas, less socialising unless it's a coffee at your house.

Now you may consider that and decide that's not a life you want to live, and fair enough, but then you have to accept you can't afford a second. And be aware that many families are making those sacrifices to make it work.

You have over £1000 each money a month plus £200 holiday an £100 child and £100 fun money so that’s £1400

take 4/6mths off

car seats why 2 car seats - pic a car as family car and use that one or reduce the cost. I’m all for safety but think our 360 seat was £390

take a mortgage break or pay interest only while on ml

if you want a second child you will make it work

your mortgage is high. What house do you have for it ?

£100 childcare seem very cheap unless have free grandparents care

I think you are happy with how things are. And that is fine. Keep building up the savings though. £6 won't go far (jk, I assume that's a typo. Hopefully it's £6k)

If you desperate for a second child, I don't think you would be saying things like it's sad not to be able to give to charity.

It’s a small point, but do you have a prepayment prescription certificate if you need regular prescriptions? It would save a bit of money if you don’t have them.

I know it’s sad to stop giving to charities, but you need the money for yourselves if you want to be able afford another child. As others have already said, it means a change of lifestyle.

Yes you can afford a second child.

Yes you would have to cut back on non essentials to make ends meet. Definitions of non essential vary.

I don't think you want to do that by the sound of it.

And that's fine.

That's a lovely response, thank you.

The car seats are worth the money - they're the safest ones on the market and, as ERF seats which are also suitable for newborns, they save money in the long run.

The mortgage was the best available rate at the time - 4.04% and we're locked in for 5 years. The rates haven't come down anywhere near enough for us to consider changing it. We also can't really take a mortgage holiday because we're already at the maximum term.

I've shopped around on energy bills and we could possibly get something for £10 less per month but it's such a marginal amount it barely seems worth it. It's certainly not going to be the deal-breaker!

No, neither of us would consider a return to work full-time. From the financial side, we'd lose child benefit and have to pay for those two days of nursery so we wouldn't end up with much extra at the end of the day. We also both went to 4 days so that (1) our little one was at home more than nursery; and (2) because we both ended up ill as a result of work, so 4 days is the best way of managing our health.

As it stands, we only have to pay £100 per month in nursery fees and by that time, we won't have our first-born's fees to pay for. The funding is an absolute life-saver. We were paying around £1k per month, before it kicked in (lived in a different house, with a cheaper mortgage, then).

I'm really not worried about the costs after the first year - we have enough flexibility to move things around and prioritise which aspects of our current lifestyle we want to maintain. It's just that year of maternity.

The problem with that is the nursery fees because the funded hours wouldn't have kicked in so we'd have to find around £1,000 per month for the nursery fees.

We also hate the idea of putting a baby into daycare 😢

And, if the last one is anything to go by, they didn't sleep for more than 20 minutes until they were 8 months old. There's no way I could do my job on such little sleep.

That's really nice to hear.

We do absolutely love and adore our darling child, and very much appreciate the benefits of having one, but I think if money was no object we'd be going for a second.

I’m sorry but no one NEEDS a window cleaner.

I'm really not worried about the costs after the first year - we have enough flexibility to move things around and prioritise which aspects of our current lifestyle we want to maintain. It's just that year of maternity

But how come you can’t save before the 2nd child comes along then?

We're basically on the round of the people who already live by us, so we've piggy-backed off what they do. I think it's perhaps every 6 weeks, which helps, but it's not going to make a massive difference in the circumstances!

We only go to the cafe once per week and it's after his class, so it's with other Mums and their children. He starts school soon so we won't be doing it for much longer, anyway.

When I was on maternity leave, last time, I would meet up and go for walks with people most days but it's not an option in the same way at the moment (I've had surgery and can't walk very far). Also, we've had a seriously crap winter!!! I hate going out in the rain!!!

Do you actually really want a second...?

Because you sound like me and my friends when we are talking about a third... notionally we are keen and would "love another one" but we "cant afford it" except really, truly, honestly we could make it work if we wanted it bad enough.. but we dont and 2 is enough.

You can afford a second you dont want to cut back or give up x y and z in order to.
So maybe you want 1 child and the life you have and thats fine too....

@MiniLob
Just to add - when I was pregnant with dc1 and once they were here and for about 2 years after, until he got a promotion, my partner took a second evening job on and that money backfilled some of what I lost. I breastfed so couldn’t really leave baby a lot so he did it for us as a family. This massively helped us out those early days.
I think tho it’s just so expensive just living these days, you pop to the shop and spend £30 on afew bits if you’re not careful.

We're very fortunate on the job security front.

Income-wise, my husband's won't go up (save for the odd percent each year) as he's not going any higher up the ladder and he's at the top of his banding. I've just had a promotion but it'll be a few years before another comes along.

We've actually taken a leap of faith, moving to this new house, on the basis we can manage things for the first 5 years but then, hopefully, I'll get a decent pay-rise and we'll be a lot more comfortable.

Your broadband and TV is so expensive to then have Netflix separately. Would definitely enquire about that,also if you add up all your subscriptions from now until end of maternity youd save a lot. Could also ger an interest free credit card

Your nursery costs are tiny! Ours were over £900a month. - with the 30h!

You can definitely afford it. You have a lot of disposable income. If you halved the £1600 you are spending per month you could save 800 a month. So in a year you'd have £9600. Say you then had the baby your partner would continue to contribute £400 over the year of leave which would get you another £3600. So in total you'd have £13,200. It's not fun but it's more than doable. You can also shorten your leave or go back part time for a while.

With my first we were both earning a good bit less than you and I only got statutory pay. Saved about £8k.

the other option could be to look for another job now that has decent maternity pay. My second, I earnt more and I got 6 months at half pay +statutory. It made such a difference. Obviously you'd need to weigh this up with your timescale and when you want to try to cocnceive.

Yeah, we could strip back to a very, very basic life but with the sorts of jobs we have we really do need more than the bare essentials for our sanity.

As for where we could cut back, I still don't see how we could get to that £13k!

We need reliable internet for work (I sometimes work from home) and so we've gone with the best provider in our area.

The car seats are the safest and I won't compromise on safety. They also cover 3 stages so, in the long run, they're not much (if any) more than buying the separate stage seats.

As for other purchases like that, there aren't really any. We don't tend to buy "stuff".

Your mortgage and utility costs are huge compared to mine, as a family of four (DC 4 and 9).

You have a huge amount of disposable income that you could use to save up for another maternity leave. The reality is something has to give when we have children. Maybe the question is more do you want to make sacrifices in your lifestyle to enable you to have a second child?

Given all you've said then there's no way a second child is going to be affordable without compromises you're not willing to make or additional debt. It's really now about deciding how you're willing for this to cost you. Good luck. Honestly if you stick with one you can live a wonderful life but there's also things I'll never experience. There's no right answer

But you already have two car seats, presumably they can be moved so they are both in one car? And so used for your child and any baby that comes along?

It sounds like you don’t want anything to change, which isn’t realistic if you want another child.