Changes to Pension Credit.

[HelenaDove]

From 15 May Pension Credit couple rate will only be paid if both are over 65

twitter.com/JosephineCumbo/status/1084920673296961536

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2019-01-14/HCWS1249/

How can it be mean to say a person under pension age can't claim pension credit? Childless people can't claim CB, working people can't claim JSA so no different.

As for

For example, someone going abroad for 5 weeks will be unable to reclaim PC/HB on return to UK

If you are claiming you need pension credit to survive I ihighly doubt they will be able to afford a trip abroad for five weeks. If they can, then they don't need state help to fund the luxury.

And let’s be clear: people don’t become carers of family members to claim £64 a week carers allowance. They become carers because their loved has a significant disability and cannot cope without significant help. The level of help the disabled person needs usually means that the carer cannot go out to work. The £64 is given to the carer as long as they are deemed to be providing a minimum of 35 hours a week care (the majority provide many more hours than this).
Do people really think that carers give up work to replace their decent salaries with £64 a week because they are lazy and feckless? The vast majority of carers live in poverty but they continue in their caring role because the alternative for their loved one is very grim.
Carers getting carers allowance save the state an estimated £342 billion pounds a year! Imagine if they all suddenly returned to work and handed the caring over to the state because they were sick of being seen as feckless for the relentless tiring caring that they do on a daily basis.
Carers who are not caring for loved ones are usually doing so in an employed role and get paid at least minimum wage which is a hell of a lot more than £64 a week.

How can it be mean to say a person under pension age can't claim pension credit?

I don’t argue with that. But I think the person of pension age should get his pension credit and the younger person should get a working age related benefit.

The responses on the thread shows the different viewpoints on this issue. It is by no means cut and dried that this change is a bad thing in my opinion.

I think we can all agree however that wherever you possibly can try not to depend on the state if you possibly can.

Let’s rephrase the question from above:
Why should people of pension age get working age benefits?
If you don’t have children you cant get child benefit. If you are working you can’t gey JSA.
So why are we paying working age benefits to people over state pension age?

Thats fair enough @totallycluelessoverhere with low conditionality for carers At the moment i dont think the computer system can cope with a couple each having seperate claims.

And there will be others who still wouldnt be happy with what an age gap couple would get.

Then it would be "well if the age gap couple can have seperate claims why cant we"

UC etc was supposed to simplify things but people are complicated. Age gap couples. blended families etc.

My friend is healthy and in no way disabled. He is over 80 and his son undertakes no care. I know this because he is a very close family friend and he told me he was astonished when the Age Concern woman came to see him and even more surprised to get the allowance

@Coppersulphate, I think perhaps your friend is a more disabled than you think. Carer's Allowance is only payable if the person being cared for gets one of these benefits:

Personal Independence Payment - daily living component
Disability Living Allowance - the middle or highest care rate
Attendance Allowance
Constant Attendance Allowance at or above the normal maximum rate with an Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit
Constant Attendance Allowance at the basic (full day) rate with a War Disablement Pension
Armed Forces Independence Payment

None of these are dished out willy nilly.

*I wouldn't want to be called a career for caring for my child or DH. I'd be a wife or mum doing what is needed. Caring for a non relative, then yes I'd be a carer.

I do think many expect everything to be paid for and presumably that's why change was needed. A sense of entitlement grew very fast.*

@TheBigBangRocks just out of curiosity, do you have children. If so do you claim child benefit for them?

Bubblewire, I have asked him and he tells me he gets attendance allowance paid directly to him.
He is not more disabled than I think.
I know him very well. He comes on holiday with us and comes to stay with my kids.

@totallycluelessoverhere

How strange @Coppersulphate. He must have done some sterling fibbing when he claimed AA then, if he is healthy and not disabled. Shame, as it's just that sort of shitty behaviour from a minority of claimants that gives people the impression that everyone is on the fiddle.

bubble so it’s attendance allowance and not carers allowance as you said previously.
There is no requirement to pay the attendance allowance to anybody else. The 80 year old can spend it on whatever he needs and that doesn’t have to be a carer. If going to the gym helps him with his health either mentally or physically then there is no reason he can’t spend his attendance allowance on that. Just because somebody goes to the gym doesn’t mean they don’t have significant disabilities. Paralympians?

Although, yes a minority of claimants have somehow managed to get disability benefits when they don’t actually need them. I think it is much harder for PIP claimants than it is for attendance allowance due to PiP forms being more lengthy and the need to have a physical assessment. I would imagine most 80 year olds do have health problems though and those problems won’t always be obvious to others.

@totallycluelessoverhere hi cluless, I think you might have misread some of what I wrote - partly due to some bolding fail on my part. I just want to be clear on that.

It was @Coppersulphate who was saying that she knows someone who is perfectly healthy and not disabled and is getting AA and CA. I disbelieved this as I know from personal experience how hard it is to get these benefits, whioch is why I probed a little and suggested, as you say, that this person might have problems that she isn't aware of.

@Coppersulphate insists that this 80 year old is perfectly healthy and non-disabled gets these benefits, so either he must have been dishonest somewhere along the line or @Coppersulphate doesn't know as much about his health as she thinks he does.

Whichever it is, I hate the benefit bashing that goes on here.

That shoud be @Coppersulphate not sure where the asterix came from!

It was also @Coppersulphate who was going on about him visiting the gym etc, not me!

Sorry bubble I quoted the wrong person by mistake. I think you are I arenon the same page.

We are indeed, totally!

inews.co.uk/news/dwp-pension-credit-reform-benefits-universal-credit-pensioners-younger-partners-divorce/

A couple who fear they will be impacted by the Government’s benefit reform for pensioners with younger partners have said they will consider divorcing if it causes them financial hardship. Richard and Julie Lee have a 10-year age gap between them and by the time Richard reaches state pension age, so-called mixed-age couples like them will be prevented from claiming Pension Credit. But the changes being rolled out by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) means they will instead be forced to claim Universal Credit, leaving them hundreds of pounds worse off each month.

The reform means that Pension Credit, a benefit that tops up people’s state pension, will only be available for couples where both partners are of pension age. Campaigners have warned the reform could make pensioners with younger partners reconsider their living situation

‘Utterly heartbreaking’ situation Charity Age UK called the Lees’ situation “utterly heartbreaking” and urged the Government to rethink the reform, adding that it ended up punishing pensioners for having a younger partner. Earliier in January the Department for Work and Pensions quietly announced that the Pension Credit change for mixed-age couples, where one person is of state pension age and one is of working age, will be implemented from 15 May 2019
As Universal Credit is worth less than Pension Credit, couples like Richard and Julie could be left worse off by as much £7,000 a year simply because of their age gap, although the exact amount will depend on their individual circumstances.
The change will not affect any mixed-age couples already claiming Pension Credit before 15 May. These couples will continue to be entitled to the benefit as long as there has been no change or break to their claim. And mixed-age couples will still be able to claim Pension Credit if one person is of pension age and also claiming housing benefit when the rules change.
Both are medically retired due to disabilities and help each other to get by day-to-day. Julie, 54, is 64-year-old Richard’s carer. They said they had been getting by on their current benefits, receiving help from family members to cover any shortfalls.
The couple, who live in Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, hoped they would get some financial relief when Richard begins receiving his pension in January 2020. But knowing they might have to claim Universal Credit rather than Pension Credit means they are considering drastic measures, such as splitting up, just to get by.

“We’ve muddled by with the help of family on the level of benefits we’re getting at the moment,” Richard told i. “I’ve been looking forward to the fact there might have been a slight easing of the pressure on us once I did retire but now on the face of it, it looks as if it’s going to get considerably worse. I don’t think that is right at all.”
Divorce now a serious consideration Richard said he “100 per cent” felt like he was being punished for having a younger partner. “I didn’t realise when I married Julie that I had to marry someone exactly my age. You fall in love with who you fall in love with. The fact that my wife was 10 years younger is unfortunate. It’s not something that was planned.
i explained to my wife the other day, how do we feel about separating or getting a divorce? That’s how serious the issue is. That’s going to cause the Government more problems because they have a duty of care to both my wife and myself so that’s two lots of accommodation they’re going to have to make available. “It’s something that’s going to have to be seriously considered.” He said the Government had not thought through the implications of the reform, which had left him feeling “concerned and very disappointed”. “In fact I’m disappointed about so many things this Government has done to the less well off in society – not just pensioners.”

The likes of us are getting poorer’ Julie added: “The likes of us are getting poorer. It’s disgusting.” She said she was dreading what the future held regarding their financial situation. “We’ve been together for 27 years. If we have to separate just to pay the bills then that is wrong. We shouldn’t, after 27 years, even think about divorcing or splitting up

Julie pointed out that couples who split up over the reform could end up costing the Government. “I need Richard. I’m disabled. I need Richard to help me and he needs me to help him. If we have to get people in to help us its going to cost them [the Government] a lot more money then keeping us together to look after each other. It’s stupid,” she said
Richard added: “I just would like all the organisations to get together and try to get this Government to think again. This is going to cause so much hardship,” he added. ‘Absurd position’ Age UK’s charity director Caroline Abrahams said: “It’s utterly heart-breaking to think an older couple may be considering divorce rather than suffer the financial consequences of the Government’s Pension Credit changes
“By slashing the incomes of those affected by as much as £7,000 a year, the new policy will place many pensioners in the absurd position of being financially better off if they separate from their partner. And many of those that choose not to go down that path face being pushed below the poverty line – this cannot be an intentional move by the Government. “We are calling on the Department for Work and Pensions to look again at its decision, which threatens to cause heartache as well as financial hardship for all those affected.
Sally West, Age UK’s policy director, advised mixed-age couples like the Lees to get individual information about their circumstances before making any drastic decision. “It’s understandable that people are worried but we wouldn’t want people to rush into any hasty decisions. But it is a ridiculous situation that you could be better off on your own.
The difference of £7,000 is between basic Universal Credit and basic Pension Credit. The actual amount will depend on people’s individual circumstances and their state pension. People should make sure they are fully aware of how it will affect them,” she said, adding that the charity was awaiting more information from the Government about the reform.

People currently entitled to Pension Credit should check their situation now and put in a claim if you can,” said Ms West. A DWP spokesperson said:“This change was voted on by Parliament in 2012 and means, for new claims, only pensioners can claim pension credit. “If a person in the household is of working age we believe it’s fair that they should be in the same circumstances as other people of the same age, regardless of the age of their partner.” Age UK is urging the public to check their entitlements before the reform. You can contact the charity’s advice line on freephone 0800 169 65 65. Visit the website’s money page or check the benefit calculator here

Read more at: inews.co.uk/news/dwp-pension-credit-reform-benefits-universal-credit-pensioners-younger-partners-divorce/

Read more at: inews.co.uk/news/dwp-pension-credit-reform-benefits-universal-credit-pensioners-younger-partners-divorce/

Read more at: inews.co.uk/news/dwp-pension-credit-reform-benefits-universal-credit-pensioners-younger-partners-divorce/

Read more at: inews.co.uk/news/dwp-pension-credit-reform-benefits-universal-credit-pensioners-younger-partners-di

Isn't that like the tax avoidance the left despise however? Deliberately divorcing when they have not fallen out just to take more cash from tax payers? Is that morally any different from a couple forming a company to pay less tax and that kind of thing?

Fair point Xenia Although i dont think the tax avoidance crowd are the ones who will be worrying about how they will pay for food and things like parking for hospital appointments.

And we have a gap here that needs closing How come employers have the right to "medically retire" someone and yet the powers that be can deem the same person fit for work. If the latter is true then the former shouldnt be allowed.

I don’t think the majority of tax avoiders are avoiding paying their taxes because they are worried about being able to afford basic food and shelter.

YY @totallycluelessoverhere.

It is an interesting point. The newspapers fall into this all the time - they go on and on about lawful tax avoidance and then in their weekend money columns give people tips on... you guessed - lawful tax avoidance. Whether they approve of it depends if the person doing it is someone they like I suppose or if they are on their blacklist.

China , that bastion of freedom the left and communion, had an issue of a log ot long standing couples divorcing for tax reasons.www.reuters.com/article/us-china-property-divorce/till-taxes-do-us-part-chinese-divorce-to-skip-property-tax-idUSBRE9250CY20130306

Our tax and benefits systems are so bound up that it is quite hard to talk about benefits without including tax (or at least national insurance contributions which kick in at much lower incomes).

However my own point of view is that people have a right within the law to organise their affairs to maximise their income whether that be claiming all the benefits to which they are entitled or paying the least tax permissible under the law eg two in a couple working for £11k a year each than 1 for £22k (the former means no tax). I see no moral duty to relieve the burden of the state particularly if you pay huge amounts into it already in tax and NI and see people's primary responsibility to care for their families.

www.grandparentsplus.org.uk/news/changes-to-child-tax-credit-and-pension-credit-for-kinship-carers-with-children-from-1st-february-2019

Changes to child tax credit and pension credit for kinship carers with children from 1st February 2019

From 1st February 2019, people of pension credit age who become responsible for a child or young person, will received an additional amount called ‘child addition’ within their pension credit award. You will no longer be able to make a new claim for tax credits if you are state pension age.

The basic requirements are:

You are ‘responsible’ for a child or qualifying young person
The child or qualifying person lives with you
You do not already have an award of (and you are not treated as having an award of) a tax credit – ie, child tax credit (CTC) or working tax credit (WTC)

A ‘child’ is a person under the age of 16, or someone aged 16 or more but under 20 and who counts as a ‘qualifying young person’.

A ‘qualifying young person’ refers to young persons in approved training, or non-advanced education at school or college for an average of over 12 hours per week, until the September following the person’s 19th birthday.

If the above basic requirements are satisfied, an ‘additional amount’ will be included in the calculation of your pension credit claim.

The additional amount is £53.34 for each child (or £63.84 if the child was born before 6 April 2017), increased by further amounts if the child has a disability (£29.02) or severe disability (£88.34).

You can obtain further information about Pension Credit and Child Addition via the following link: www.gov.uk/pension-credit/what-youll-get.