erudio student loans

[mrsbug]

Hi, I have an old student loan from 1998 which I have been deferring since then as I have never earned enough to pay it back (there are some advantages to being poor )

I recently had a letter from a company called erudio student loans saying they have bought my student loan from the government. All very reassuring about how the t and cs of my loan won't change, etc.

Now I've had the regular deferral letter from them and it's much more detailed than before. They want my bank details which I'm not really happy to give, and they say my details will be checked with a credit reference agency, which I don't think they used to do - my loan has never shown on my credit file.

Has anyone else had this? Do I have to give them this info?

I received the Erudio Notice of Assignment pack today. The SLC covering letter acknowledged the Fair Processing Notice in the list of included documents but neither the SLC letter nor the Erudio/SLC FAQ page states that it must be signed. It is there, with a SAE.

It is called FPN on the covering letters but in the signature box it says 'Consent to share data on up to date accounts opened in or after 1998'

Below that

'In accordance with the terms & conditions under which the original loan was made available and with the Data Protection Act 1998, I hereby agree that with effect from this date, data on my loan opened in or after 1998 which relates to up to date payments may be shared with credit reference agency'

Further up the notice it says

'We will give details of your personal account(s) , to credit references agencies, including names and parties to the account and how you manage it/them, if you defer payments in the future, or if you borrow and do not pay in full and on time and are not eligible for deferment. Otherwise if your account is in order, data on your account will be shared only you do not make payments in accordance with the agreement' (sic - typed as written)

So unless your account is 'in order' they will share your info - so they are considering getting new deferrals as 'being out of order'?

I have 3 other loans that were sold to Thesis ages ago and have had no problems with them at all.

They must think people are daft enough to sign and return that.

Don't.

Or you use SAE to return your own version such as:

For the avoidance of doubt, I DO NOT consent to information about my loans or their status being shared with any Credit Reference Agency under any circumstances for any purpose.

@erudioed

It's not a crazy statement just an observation. Having a debt of £5000 or £6000 on your credit record won't harm your credit rating that much. For people who don't have that much credit at the moment then their credit ratings aren't going to be too badly affected. That was my point.

I also think Erudio would like you to believe it's going to badly affect your credit file as you are therefor more likely to pay off your loan even when entitled to defer. Everyone panicking on these forums about their credit ratings being destroyed I think is playing into Erudio's hands, I was just trying to add some perspective.

I'm well aware of how debt collectors work, I work in income collection myself, but i work for a social landlord so I like to think our actions are carried out in a moral fashion, I know very well how the industry works and I spend a lot of my time advising people.

Principals have nothing to do with it, we are not dealing with a lax government department anymore but the private sector. There's nothing any of us can do about the fact these loans were sold, and we are now in the process of finding out what can and what can't change. I dont like any of it anymore than you but I think eventually we are going to have to give some ground and that will likely mean handing out more info and accepting CRA disclosure. It seems to me after having looked into this as much as I can they are entitled to that, but that still leaves lots to be questioned, fight the fights you can win.

@ SacreBlue

I never returned it, you would be signing away all the protection section 12b offers for loans issued in or after 98.

From that perspective i see your point ichibodT, although I disagree still on a a couple of issues but we do agree on other things. I agree it certainly is what Erudio want people to think, worded confusingly as such, and that picking a good fight is very important.
I havent personally picked up major vibe though that so many are worried about it destroying credit ratings (although i certainly dont see it in anyway as the positive some seem to suggest) but more that people dont like the feeling of being attacked and that that is one of the hammers being used to let us know that things have changed for the worse.

The one thing I think Erudio will not want to do is take a 'valid deferrer' to court on a point of principle.

They are going through their armoury with us - testing and seeing what they can get away with.

Despite what Paul Lewis (I never realised the guy really was so wet with only a slim grasp on 'soft' money issues - this seems beyond him) kept moronically repeating on You and Yours - none of Erudio's admin procedures are 'law'.

The right to defer if your income is below the threshold IS LAW.

Erudio will fuck about endlessly (WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL PHONING THEM??? - they do have an email address and they do reply) but they will NEVER take somebody who has proof their income is below the deferral threshold to court because they will lose.

They will not get a judgment in their favour and it will create a 'precedent' that will influence any future court hearings.

Already, I suspect many people are settling their loans with Erudio, so they have turned 'worthless' debt into hard cash.

Paul Lewis was (unfairly I think) slagging off the SLC for not being more brutal in debt collecting - perhaps that's the baby booming voice of that generation who got everything for nothing (good old LEA grants for uni) and who are pissed off that 'their taxes' are making up the shortfall when our loans aren't repaid(like we don't pay tax!). It's the only reason I can think of for a 'financial journalist' going so easy on Erudio and repeatedly contradicting himself over what could and couldn't be done.

He sounded in a right muddle.

I haven't heard back about my application yet.

Haven't chased them and shouldn't have to!

If they take a DD (in error!!!) then I will be on to my bank and it will be reclaimed under the DD Guarantee.

The Information Commissioner may be receiving a request to look into the reasonable use of borrower data under the terms of the original loan agreements with a view to assessing Erudio's use of that data given their limited and specific requirements in relation to deferral and statements as to fair and proper usage of data on (for example) Experian's website.

If they had approached me with an honest/fair proposition for repayment then I would have likely accepted. I wonder if many others would say the same. They may even have got a better return on their investment that way!

a slight aside and im sure unconnected in any way other than paranoia but anyone see this on the bbc today, it seems like this very site has been hacked by someone but no one knows for what purpose:
www.bbc.com/news/technology-27028101

watch the video as well!

hello has any body had a successfull deferment yet that has not used the erudio forms, left sections blank or blacked out the horrible new t and c bit at the end of the form.

also my first year of uni was 1997 so from what i have read here they can already register this with cra, but my 98 and 99 loans will have the extra section 12 or was it 16 that protects you, but as my account started in 97 no doubt they will go with those t and c cos it will be better for them.

oh this is making me sick very sick, i get stress related illness any way and like to keep my life simple this is horrible.

can any body tell me how long you have to reclaim your money in the dd scheme, is it 24 or 48 hours ect, if they take my money i want it back but dont want to have to check my account every day!!!!

@iwillwin23

As far as I'm aware If you have loans pre 98 and post 98 Erudio have to treat each in accordance with the terms and conditions for each loan. They cannot take the terms and conditions for your 97 loan and apply them to your 98 loan.

If they register any of your deferred loans from 98 onwards with a CRA that will be a breach of the terms and conditions. They may well try this but they would then have breached the agreement. They obviously know this that's why they sent out the letters earlier this year asking for consent to share data with CRAs for post 98 loans.

The emails that BIS sent out also clearly stated pre 98 section 16 loans, in deferral, can be shared with CRAs. From 98 onwards only loans in default can be shared.

i am still not clear whether the loan data pre-1998 will be registered with CRAs, the way it reads to me right now, that is up to Erudio's discretion, with the likelihood being they will. But do state you wish this not to happen in your correspondence with them.

Do not sign ANYTHING Erudio sends you.

Also importantly, before doing anything, send them £1 and request to see "copies of the full original terms and conditions of contract and credit agreements that you signed with the Student Loans Company" in the first place, as under the "Consumer Credit Act 1974". If they cannot provide these signed agreements, then they cannot enforce your loan.

There's much more but I will not right it on here yet.

[quote]Q. Is this a change in my agreement, I didn’t think the Student Loans Company did this previously?

A. No, your agreement is not changing. The owner of the loans has always been permitted to use credit reference agencies (CRAs) for the purposes of data validation. The Student Loans Company has registered defaults with CRAs and the terms and conditions have always permitted the Student Loans Company to share data in the way detailed above. Erudio Student Loans will be processing and managing student loans on a system which will use and register the data in a manner which facilitates data validation and supports responsible lending and borrowing.[/quote]

If Erudio are using CRA information to verify the identity/status of a deferring student, this information should show up as a 'Table 2' search on your personal Credit Report.

Example: I applied for the most recent file through Equifax, prior to returning my deferment pack. The only search record currently showing is the one performed by Equifax themselves to verify my identity.

'Table 2' searches are not visible to any lender or other CRA reporting body performing a search on an application for credit.

However, any application for credit will be recorded as a 'Table 1' search, and will be visible to any subsequent lender. This means it may impact any future credit application, as the more records of searches that appear in 'Table 1', the higher the perceived risk of default or missed payment by the borrower.

The more of us that can get Credit Reports, as evidence for a possible formal complaint, showing a current status as a 'before' and any future addition by Erudio, as an 'after', the stronger the case will be.

If 'valid deferrers' refuse to follow Erudio's procedure (use their own letters, black out forms, refuse new T&Cs) Erudio will be placed in the dilemma of simply allowing the deferrals BECAuse they are Valid - the borrowers earn below the threshold - and not bothering about the CRA registration issues/not bothering about the defaced forms etc.

That would be the logical procedure - because the borrowers have valid entitlement to defer anyway - Erudio would not be so cavalier as to not defer them simply because they haven't filled in the form properly.

If Erudio refused me deferral in those circumstances, I would cancel my DD, they would be forced to go to court to get a CCJ - BUT in court I am very confident their case would be thrown out as spiteful/vexatious given that they already knew I was a valid deferrer and they had all the evidence to prove it.

They would risk losing the debt entirely at that point.
They will not want to do that.

So the alternative course of action for Erudio, is that after lots of acting the big man and generally being twattish (losing letters, not writing, taking DDs, repaying DDs and lots of general cocking about) - they eventually allow deferment for valid borrowers BUT they insist on registering the debts at CRAs and claim this as their right.

Obviously that puts the ball back in our court.

I would advocate accepting the deferral (duh!) but then launching a campaign to have the data sharing conditions investigated by the Information Commissioner (in the first instance).

I think it would only be at that point - when we have serious bargaining power, that Erudio would contemplate low value debt repayment.

At the moment, they haven't been forced to show their mettle, no deadlines have been reached, they're prancing about playing the hard man.

The real test for them will come as Repayment Dates loom - they have full evidence of low income in their hands and a defaced form - What will they do?

Take a DD - which is then rightfully cancelled by the borrower (a valid deferrer) - Take the borrower to court and lose? And risk having the Right to pursue the debt thrown out by the court.

Or allow deferral and be knobs with CRA notification?

Well i have had a response from Richard Bacon's office, who have kept the details should the Public Accounts Committee reinvestigate student loans, he has also passed the information on to my own MP, so i await further replies, so, seems we are stirring nicely! ;-)

Just re-read my last post and realised my thoughts came out a bit all over the place.

Essentially, I was just speculating that we're mainly in a bit of a dead-zone at the moment.

Erudio has sent out letters and generally tried to intimidate the pants off people.

All of those letters have a 'best-before' date - a date at which Erudio has said it will take a payment UNLESS it has approved your deferment.

In other words, nothing will happen, regardless, until that date.

If you have submitted your deferral application - then - on that date (or before) Erudio has to show its intentions - Erudio has to play its hand.

No more threats or implied jiggery-pokery - Erudio has to EITHER - allow deferral OR take a repayment.

Until then, all our worries are theoretical - they may prove entirely unfounded (yeah!!!).

The options for Erudio are:

1. Allow deferral + NOT report to CRAs
2. Allow deferral + REPORT to CRAs

1. Do not allow deferral

1. Delay decision - for up to 3 months with fecking about over details on form.

totally agree emptycoffers, we are indeed in the dead zone.

As an aside, i had to call the Death Star today to see why i have been waiting over a week for a letter i was promised concerning CRAs not being informed, and even though i have made a complaint, they didnt amend the deferral deadline date i got with the deferral pack. Its obviously a more complicated process that i imagined. In fact, the operator told me it hadnt been sent out...to which i was obviously not shocked based on others experiences but is quite outrageous considering this a company backed my massive multinationals with a supposed good track record. Lets hope Richard Bacon investigates BIS's due diligence process!
As such, to anyone who does call our beloved HQ and have a complaint in the oven, it could be worth making sure they have changed the deferral date to potentially put off the DD raid.

Got an email back from hmrc saying they will endeavor to answer my query within 2wks. So now my dilemma is do I need to give Erudio the 28 days they ask for to process my deferral? What has everyone else done?

i plan to try and send them something to try defer my loan as my current deferment period ends 14th May. I cannot fing my child benefit award notice as i got it several years ago. I really dont want to send them my bank statement to prove the amount i get for child benefit. what has everyone else sent them?

A bank statement with most transactions blanked out it seems, although I'm still pondering and my deferment date is 19 May. I reckon I will have to make a decision in a day or 2 ?

complain to erudio calise, it will take them up to 8 weeks to process the complaint, with your deferment date put back accordingly. Just make sure Erudio change your deferment date when you state your complaint.

Bear in mind Erudio don't 'guarantee' to process your application within 28 days (or is it 28 working days?) - and nor did SLC.

Don't they just state that they will aim to process your application withing 28 days - AND contact us if you haven't heard anything after 40 days.

Also, they have up to 3 months after that date (as do you) to claim and process deferral with deferment backdated to the original date.

And any repayments made refunded/not refunded?

Just saying .... I wouldn't go mental worrying about getting your forms in 'on time'.

Has anybody who objected to the change in T&Cs (in any way) actually been deferred yet?

I saw a couple of people earlier in the thread claim to be deferred but they said they had played it 'by the book'.