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Miscarriage/pregnancy loss

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miscarriage at 20 weeks, advice please

50 replies

lemonsherbet · 12/05/2011 19:13

Went for scan and there was no heartbeat. Everything seemed to be going well before this. Heart beat was nice and strong at 16 week check. Have been given the first tablet and need to go to labour ward where they will give me pessary and further tablets on Saturday. This is my second miscarriage. Had an ERPOC in October. My due date from that one is only 2 weeks away. Can you please advise what do I need to take with me to hospital? Please can you tell me some positive stories am starting to think will never have a living baby. Thanks

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fifi25 · 13/05/2011 22:06

Lemon you are not rabbliing. Hope your bearing up ok. Make sure you have someone to talk to afterwards. I wasnt offered any councelling and only had family and friends. I dont think they understood how angry i wasx

Confuddled no one has mentioned Antiphospholipid Syndrome to me. I havent asked for investigation. When i was pregnant the last time and miscarried i hadnt planned the pregnancy then got all excited about it. I then split with the kids dad so didnt ask for any investigation as i am not planning anymore. I did think maybe i had some sort of condition where i couldnt carry males. I asked someone a long time ago but as i had only had one mc they wouldnt investigate. In my area they investigate only after 3 mc's. I will do a bit reasearch tommorrow. I am sorry to hear about the loss of your daughterx

sabine · 13/05/2011 23:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

confuddledDOTcom · 14/05/2011 00:26

It's my diagnosis and I have looked it up quite a bit because I like to understand things about myself.

It's something you're born with but the effects don't necessarily start straight away. In my case I have had Raynaud's since I was a child, I have had TIAs since going on the pill (bit of a d'uh when you look back! It was therapeutic use and we didn't know what was happening, just assumed I fainted a lot) at the age of 13, although looking at photos I think something happened earlier than that as my face is dropped on one side and predates the pill. I also have lots of the random symptoms although generally I'm not too bad with it.

It is the worst of the autoimmune diseases and I know plenty of people who have Lupus and Diabetes with it and call them "minor irritations". The reason it is the worst is that it works by attacking cells which is completely unique, most things attack a specific area - so eczema attacks the skin, arthritis the joints etc - the problem with attacking cells is that everything in your body becomes a potential target and even things you put in your body (food, drink, immunisations, viruses, infections) so you can end up with allergies suddenly developing or any autoimmune disease, most people with the condition have at least two. Because the antibodies are carried by blood your blood cells are constantly under attack so you have "sticky" blood, basically blood that clots too easily.

It also means that the baby is at risk in pregnancy and the antibodies are raised anyway so you're at higher risk just being pregnant. I had a TIA in the toilet after my 20 weeker was born, they made me keep the door to my en suite open because they were worried about me and had to pull me off the loo when I started headbutting the sani-bin!

It is possible to carry a baby with it, it's about 18% (about 1 in 5) chance so some people do have to have a healthy babies and it would seem from the group I use that people who manage it do go on to have a healthy baby again, although being treated is still a good idea because the mother is still at risk herself.

It's often said by doctors and MWs who don't know better (this is a big problem with the condition, HCPs really don't know better but won't admit it and resent the doctor who discovered it so won't refer to his opinion on it) that this is a pregnancy condition but it's really not and it's something that needs to be known about. It needs treatment forever because of it and the risk of family members having it goes up - my sister loves me, she's not been tested positive but she's not allowed the pill because of me so it's needle in the bum! My brother's daughters won't be able to have it and neither will anyone descended from my parents. It's a funny condition because it can appear from no where when there are enough risk factors. The fact that I have enough but we don't know anyone above me who has it means that my parents have likely created it and so anyone below them will have enough risk factors.

I believe and I know Prof Hughes and his team believe it too, that all pregnant women should be tested and all women who lose a baby should be too. Whilst it's hard to get tested for anything with less than three losses, if you've had late loss it's not usually considered to be "one of those things" so they're more likely to test you. You can still ask them to get you tested though.

I know that's a lot of information, I'm sorry if it's rambly but it's such a complicated disease that it's hard to condense it.

fifi25 · 14/05/2011 00:28

I have looked and although i have some of the symptoms - migraines dizzyness and a bad memory most of it i havent got. If you hadnt told me i wouldnt even have looked it up so now its makeing me wonder how many other conditions are out there that could relate to me and i havent even looked at or been informed of. Its quite worrying thats its not pointed out given some of the conditions relating to it.

confuddledDOTcom · 14/05/2011 00:41

The problem is it was discovered in 1985 which is still fairly recent and by a junior doctor on rotation in the rhuematology clinic which is why he's resented! So people don't really understand it and often don't want to. What happens is people present with things and are treated for what they present with, without looking at the fact they actually have three autoimmune diseases! Some of the symptoms you just ignore, like the fog, because you don't know the difference or just put up with because lots of people get like that. One never mentioned is the affect that shop lighting or car indicators have! I only know because I asked on the group and loads of people agreed, none of us had put it together before. The other difficult thing with it is that it affects everyone in different ways. One thing that comes up a lot is the relief of a diagnosis, people who are labeled "mad or bad" (mentally ill or a liar/ hypochondriac) before diagnosis who realise their symptoms are all tied together and they're neither.

Often it's not diagnosed until someone has a pregnancy loss and the obstetrician thinks to test for it, then family members get tested - women especially because of the pill, other family who recognise the symptoms in themselves.

The awful thing about miscarriage and later loss is it isn't always "one of those things" in fact a good portion of them can be explained. I honestly don't understand why Hughes Syndrome and a few others aren't routinely tested for. It would save a lot of lives - maternal, babies and even relatives.

fifi25 · 14/05/2011 00:56

I think testing after 3 is 3 too many losses. I couldnt believe it happend to me twice especially at 16 weeks after having 2 daughters. Then the 3rd time even though not planned i was totally shocked. I am definately considering asking for tests now given what i have read tonight.

confuddledDOTcom · 14/05/2011 12:56

It is and a lot of professionals are saying that now, especially when they understand how many have got reasons.

If a miscarriage is because the baby isn't growing properly the placenta will take the decision very early on not to put effort into this baby, once you're into the second trimester it shouldn't be happening, that's very late for the body to realise there is something wrong. It does happen but more likely when it's that late there is a problem behind it.

What harm does a cheap (because it is) test do? It could be negative and the woman feels confident that there's nothing wrong with her she'll be OK next time or it could be positive and she knows she'll be OK next time because she'll get a cheap pill that will protect her.

Have a look at Yahoo Groups for APLSUK, it's a good one for getting more information from. Because doctors don't know a lot about it we end up being our own advocates so often you can get more information from the collective than you can from your doctor.

sabine · 14/05/2011 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

confuddledDOTcom · 14/05/2011 23:00

The fact you've had a late loss should be looked into, not necessarily that it might be Hughes but there are other things that could cause it. It is possible, even if you have something that would have been present from birth, that as you get older it affects you more and that's why. Knowing why will mean you know that either you can be treated so it shouldn't happen again or that it's not something to worry about.

lemonsherbet · 15/05/2011 08:38

I just wanted to let you know I gave birth to our little boy last night. He was tiny but perfect. The midwives were brilliant. Thanks for all your help everyone.

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MandaHugNKiss · 15/05/2011 09:13

Oh, lemonsherbert you're in my thoughts. Please do not put any pressure on yourself over the coming weeks/months as to how you think you should feel (or indeed, don't let people around you influence that either). You've suffered a very real loss and need time to grieve. Be kind to yourself.

cece · 15/05/2011 21:59

lemonsherbert - unmumsnet like hugs to you

xx

lemonsherbet · 17/05/2011 08:26

I just wondered if there was anyone still reading this thread. Got told yesterday by work they felt I was very stressed the past few weeks and they feel that that caused the miscarriage. Am really upset by it. I remember having a couple of bad days but no more than that. My husband thinks I was fine in the evenings when I was at home.

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confuddledDOTcom · 17/05/2011 09:13

lemon, you can't cause a miscarriage by being stressed. People go through far worse than we ever could in the UK. Yes babies do pick it up and are affected by it - a study looked at 4/5 year olds in their first year at school who were New York foetuses during 9/11 and found they had unusual serotonin levels. The human race would have died out if our unborn were really that delicate.

Ignore the idiots. I know it's not easy but you will come across some stupid comments and you'll learn where to file them so they don't get to you too much. People mean well but they don't know what to say and end up coming out with stupid things. When you feel strong enough you could say something like "did you mean that to leave your mouth?" "did you think before you spoke?"

My my favourite one was "my friend had an abortion and... did that happen to you?" Bet you're not surprised I haven't been friends with him since!

cece · 17/05/2011 22:50

Lemon - stress will not have caused your loss. Ignore the idiots - people say all sorts of nonsense in an attempt to 'help' you ime. Unthinking idiots.

lemonsherbet · 19/05/2011 08:30

Am having a bit of a bad day. Realised the baby I had lost in October would of been due this Saturday. I had found it a great comfort that I was pregnant again for the due date.

Also I am feeling forced to go back to work. Have had it pointed out can only have 2 weeks off sick. So my scan showed no heart beat on Thursday last week. If I had made it to 24 weeks would be allowed maternity leave. It just not seem fair that I am going to have to go back to work next week.

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confuddledDOTcom · 19/05/2011 10:48

Speak to your GR or CMW and see if they can help. You're entitled to as much sick leave as it takes to get over your "illness" and physically I can't see you being up to it that soon - I know I wouldn't have been anyway.

I was in a similar position with due dates. I told myself it didn't matter I'd be pregnant then so I could handle it. Getting past that date was hard and I didn't feel I could relax or try to get over my grief until I'd passed that point.

cece · 19/05/2011 21:53

lemon, that isn't true about only two weeks sick leave. If the reason is pg related then it doesn't get counted in the same way as 'normal' illness. Get a sick note with pg mentioned on it by the GP. MIne siad late miscarriage and I had 6 weeks off in total with no loss of pay.

cece · 19/05/2011 21:58

Here

cece · 19/05/2011 22:06

Some small amount of relevant info here

cece · 19/05/2011 22:12

This might be more relevant.

PieMistress · 19/05/2011 22:28

Thinking of you lemonsherbet and hoping you are okay.

Ditto what the others have said about being off sick - you can be off for more than 2 weeks

lemonsherbet · 20/05/2011 12:49

Thanks went to my GP who will write a letter saying there is no way I am fit to go back to work. I think they were just fed up because I had a week off for my miscarriage in Oct and then this happens. Which obviously is another miscarriage.

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cece · 21/05/2011 14:59

Sorry you are having this trouble lemon - and pleased your GP is helping you out. I must have been lucky as my employer just accepted my sick note.

confuddledDOTcom · 21/05/2011 22:30

It's not like you've arranged it though! Angry Tough luck on them if they don't like it.

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