Holidays from hell...

[sal13]

I have just got back from a short weekend break to Pisa and I am exhausted! My dh loves travelling, and has taken me to some wonderfull places during the last two years. This time last year we had one child with us, our ds was 3 months old and a total gem. This year he is 17 mnths old and his brother is 5 months. All they did was scream all through the flight, and each evening in the room. We didn't dare eat in the restaurant, we took room service instead! Now I am terrified because dh had already booked a three week tour of some of the states - NY, Boston, Vegas, LA, and (wit for it) Death Valley!!!! I knew when he wanted to book it, that it would be difficult, but based on last weekend, I am soooo scared. Please, somebody, give me the benefit of your past experience on how to get through three weeks of possible hell.

Is your dh insane??? A moving around holiday that involves crossing several time zones with a baby and a small child is a challenge, to say the least. To be perfectly honest, if I were in your position I would refuse to go, but then, I always was a stroppy cow. If I did have to go, I would try very hard to keep some kind of routine for the children and make sure that they get some play time at some point each day.

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I know it's mad, and I made it really clear at the time of booking. His theory was that (cringe) the children went free, and it would be the last 'goo' -ha,ha holiday we could have for a while! He's lovely really, but bear in mind that he has come into fatherhood in his early forties and has some kind of misconception about having perfect kids. The last couple of holidays we had, we took either his mother or one of my teenage children with us. they has a seperate room and took the older boy. This worked brilliantly, and we had no trouble. But of course that would mean taking someone else with us again, and he wants a holday on our own. I have no idea how we will cope- or more to the point -how I'll cope! When my first children were young, I never went away, so this is all new to me. I know it's a stupid idea, believe me, but, can you give me more ideas on how to make the best of it. Please

the thing is, one sets the other off crying, which is how seperating them at night really worked. I managed to keep some kind of routine and sense of calm going. it's when one crys....

How about 2 rooms - you have one baby with you, and dh has the other with him? That might make him think about how difficult it is with 2 little ones.

that would be a great idea, but unfortunately, it's all been booked and paid for, we're talking of about five different hotels. ...anyway I went out today and did some holiday clothes shopping to cheer myself up

I hope you found some lovely things.
A friend of mine was telling me today that her dh's life has not changed one jot since their ds was born, and he has no idea just how much her life has changed to look after a baby. It sounds like your dh is a bit like that. Could you get him to babysit for a whole day so that he gets an inkling of just how demanding looking after little ones is at home, let alone on holiday?

oh, I would love to, believe me. I'm smiling just at the thought of it, but I would worry too much. I know they would be in good hands in one respect, but at the same time, I just know that he would ring me every five minutes for something or other. Yesterday, when I went shopping, he rang me at least five times! I never go out you see. Well rarely. I moved here ( to his home town) shortly after the older boy was born, and all my family are up North. Didn't get out much on my own at first, then fell pregnant again quickly. Love it though (having them so close together), but I think he secretly likes the fact that I don't get out, and when I do, I think it unerves him a little. men can be quite insecure too. I'm trying to diet for the holiday ( and because I need to after two babies), but he often 'forgets' and brings the cakes out. I think actually, this holiday may actually be a blessing in disguise, because he will have no other option than to help me, or look bad! Really, he is soo lovely, and would do anything for me in every other respect. I think this may let him see beyond the rose tinted glasses!

ps - I took the boys shopping with me !

Now that is brave. I find shopping with one little one quite hard work - the supermarket is fine, because she loves whizzing round on the top of a trolley, but clothes shops are tricky because she tries to grab everything.

It was really interesting one afternoon last week, 'cos I left dd with dh for a couple of hours. His first words when I got back through the door were "thank god you're back - she's hard work, and I had to entertain her!"

Do you find things get quite lonely, at home with the boys? I'm not working at the moment, but I find I need to go out, mostly with dd, for my sanity if nothing else. So we go for lots of walks, with the dog too.

definately, although it was worse when I was pregnant with the little one, because we live at the top a a big hill, and walking down to the park was fine, it was just impossible to get back up again! It's bad enough now I'm not pregnant. When I added that I took the boys shopping with me, it was because my previous post read back to me as though I'd left them with him and that was why he was phoning so much. No, they go where I go.I love them so much, almost every moment with them, it just gets hard sometimes. I need to join a playgroup, but it's just getting up the nerve to walk in cold. I've heard so much about how judgemental people can be. Do I make an effort and look too self absorbed, or do I wear jeans, and risk looking like I don't care about myself. lol- so I just don't do it. but yesterday we took the older boy to get new shoes, and he was sooo loving playing with two other toddlers. He came out so happy. I know that I have to make the effort soon.
As for the holiday, oh my god, I had a row with dh this morning, and we're barely speaking now. He's gone to the diy shop. I told him he was selfish.

I didn't pull my punches too much. I said that nobody in their right minds would choose to take an 18mnth old and a 6 month old on a trip like that. He was moaning about money, so that was my opening, lol, along the lines of 'yeah but you can easily blow thousands on a holiday that only you want to go on. I mean, Death Valley!!! I do think I will be refusing that trip on the day! I imagine he's on the phone to his best buddy as I write!. So how old is your dd?

My dd is nearly 9 months. She has not long perfected the art of crawling, and now wants to be mobile all over the place. I find it hard work with just the one to look after - I can't imagine what it must be like with 2, who have completely different needs, but probably at the same time. We've been going to baby massage organised by our hv, and on Friday I took her to a play group for the first time, as she really enjoys playing with other children. It was a bit nerve wracking walking in, although I did already know one mum who goes. We were made very welcome. Everyone was really laid back, the only thing that made me feel a little bit strange is that I am the oldest mum there by a good 10 years. But that won't be an issue unless I make it one!

I hope you've made it up with your dh. Mine is capable of sulking for days if we fall out. I'm with you on Death Valley, though. I wouldn't want to take dd somewhere that could end up being quite dangerous if something goes wrong like the car breaking down. But then, I wimped out of going on the corporate jolly my dh has been on over the holiday weekend, because the idea of taking dd and all her equipment to Lisbon for 3 days, and then leaving her with a baby sitter I didn't know to go to a gala dinner just didn't appeal to me. Plus, Ihave nothing to wear to a gala dinner - my pre-pg clothes don't fit anymore !

yes we made up - we always do, but I'm pleased I managed to finally get through to him about my feelings on the trip. I just have to make the best of it now. We decided to take two single buggies rather than a double. It seemed to work well in Pisa. We got through small doorways and could slot the babies into tables just by removing a chair at each side. So that's one area sorted out! I love having the boys so close together, but it was also because my dh is an only one, and his parents live an hours' drive away, and all my family are up North, so we knew they woud play (or argue) together. I will do the playgroup thing, I just need to find a local one. I looked in the paper last night, but none were local. enough.I think the older mum bit won't be too bad. I went through that at Uni, and , like you say, others don't seem to have that problem, so I didn't.It's a huge change though, isn't it. You describe you previous life, and it sounds a little like mine. I used to earn more than dh once upon a time! I wouldn't swap my life for anything, but I do really, really miss having my own income, where now I have to justify (to myself) what the money goes on.

It's sensible to take 2 buggies - the other day I watched a couple struggling to manoeuvre (sp?) a double buggy into a cafe where my single one goes no problem. You know, you sound scarily similar to me - I used to earn more than my dh, too (he never said anything but he hated that). However, dh wouldn't organise a holiday without consulting me - he usually decides what he would like, I find something to suit both of us, and I book. Except this year we're going to a cottage in Devon with my parents, because they want to be in on dd's first holiday!

Dh's family live in California, so we are going to have to go and visit at some point. I am dreading an 11 hour flight with a baby, especially as she can't digest milk protein and is on special formula that can't be made (and tested) in advance. Please can you let me know what US security were like about baby food.

I stopped working early in pregnancy because I needed to get a manager to run our business and the right person came along, but it was really strange at first, because I had always worked before. So I did an OU course while I was pg, and now dd is a full time job in her own right, and I would not give that up for anything. I'm just eternally greatful that I don't have to work right now.

we are alike- spooky!! as for the US security, I went to New-York for Christmas (I know, him again) and I found the the security was the tightest at Heathrow. I had to taste all the milk and baby food, but the states were on form but not as bad - certainly not as I expected. They do make you take your shoes off though. heathrow make you take babies out of buggies, but Stanstead and Gatwick leave them in if they are sleeping.You can book a sky cot as long as dd weights less than 33lbs. Were you self employed? I spent seven years training to be a Criminal Psychologist, but found I could make more money running my own business. I wish I'd trained as a child psychologist now. lol!

I trained as a solicitor, practiced for 4 years, got really fed up with trying to solve people's problems and disillusioned with law firm politics, so dh and I bought a business which we ran together for 3 years or so until he decided he hated it, then I ran it on my own for another couple of years (you wouldn't believe the rows we had about it), and now we have a manager running it while dh has another business, a start-up which is costing us a fortune, but I grin and bear it . He's having one of his paranoid fits about money again, which drives me up the wall, bearing in mind he won't set a proper budget for his business, and bearing in mind that his latest jaunt cost £150 more than it should after he put unleaded in his diesel car by accident and didn't realise until the car conked out... Aaaagggghhhhhh - MEN!

Criminal psychology sounds very scary.

Personally, I would cancel. Speaking as a former traveloholic who had 3 children close in age. You're not going to really enjoy it. What you'll remember is the horrors of the long flight with 2 babies, plus the jet-lag which buggers up their sleep for the holiday, and then again when you get home. Plus the exhaustion and the stressy bits.

Just speaking from personal experience of trying to do exciting holidays with 2 or 3 very young children. It sounds negative but IME it's better to be really not very adventurous with several small children (self catering in one place, for instance), and wait til they're bigger to do those exciting travelling things.

sorry to sound really negative but for a trip like this i would either take a nanny (can't afford it), leave the children at home (wouldn't really want to for a long trip) or not go. Sorry. But I am the opposite of a traveloholic and have happily decided never to fly again which is not so much a green decision, just that I loathe flying and with kids i think it is about 18 times as horrible.

Might possibly be worth sitting down and going through a typical day on holiday and who could potentially do what - though many boyfriends I have had would regard this as some kind of female control freak thing, as opposed to attempting to ensure that you get some sort of holiday as well.

Actually, (sorry), are you planning to do this in a campervan or RV or whatever they call them? That could be good - a good friend of mine who is a lot tougher than me did this with her 3 under 5 a few years ago and they had a ball rolling around the States.

i can't cancel the holiday, but what I have done since, is have a long talk with dh and I have made sure we stick to the UK for the net couple of years or so. I think he finally gets the picture- a little late- but he understands now. I just have to make the best of it, I guess.I imagine it won't be a fabulous holiday, but who knows. I need some practical tips now if anyone is wiling ... Roskava - do you ever wonder how you did it? lol. Your field was similar to mine, but much more exacting, my goodness, I'm impressed! Have you found it difficult to adjust? It's taken me at least 2 years to relinquish my old life. Piece by piece I am leting go, but I sometimes feel that my dh thinks I'm stupid at times. His attitude to me is very loving, but much more patronising since I've become a sahm. for example - the CD player in the car wouldn't play, so I tried three times to put the disk in and out of the player,(carefully) to no avail. It just wouldn't pick up. So he then pulled over, got out, came to my side and tried the same thing himself before he was satisfied that it actually was not working! Aggggggh! Is it a man thing?

I don't know how I ever found time to work, Sal! Well, actually, I do: the house was a pit, I never seemed to have time for anything that didn't involve work, and my nearest and dearest took to ringing me at the office to check I was still alive, 'cos they hadn't heard from me for ages... I spent the first few months of not working constantly thinking I should be somewhere else and at the same time feeling mildly paranoid that I wasn't 'doing anything' although the house was cleaner than it had been for years, the dog was in heaven because he got regular walks instead of pestering me or dh when he was so desperate he could barely walk, and people started commenting that I looked well! I don't know how people with dcs work, though: it feels like a monumental task to get dd and her luggage ready to go anywhere, especially as I have to park the car quite a long way from the house, and she has a 6th sense for knowing when we have a deadline to get somewhere, and just doesn't co-operate. I still quite frequently feel that I'm not doing anything, though, never mind that now dd is getting mobile, she needs constant supervision.

After reading that, I can remember feeling constantly on 'high alert' (that's the only way I can describe it) when working. the more places I had to go to, and the more work that I had to do, the more organised I was. I would lie awake until 3 or 4am, just because I couldn't switch off. It wasn't worry, just that I was so highly wired I think. You're right. It's different now. I also have a much more organised house, although the conservatory is now a playroom . I have also mellowed. My dh says he likes the person I am now better than the one he met. I'm happier too, although I'm awake at night because of little lungs now. The baby has just started sleeping through until 4.30am, when prior to that he has been waking at 1am. However, the toddler is cutting his back teeth, so he is waking several times a night with pain - poor boy. So funny!

...had to answer the door! I meant it's so funny that just as you think you can get some rest, something else decides otherwise. My toddler is a happy little soul though, and makes the best of it.

The whole rhythm of my life has totally changed, and is now dictated by a small being who is scarily dependent on me! I do things slower: I walk to the shops with dd in the buggy rather than drive, I cook food rather than eat out or rely on ready meals. Dd has been a little angel, and got the hang of sleeping through the night at 9 weeks . We had a rough few nights this week because she's had a cold, and kept waking with a snuffy nose, and she has got teeth coming through, but mostly she sleeps at night. She doesn't usually sleep much in the day - a short morning nap and an afternoon one if I am lucky, and that can be quite hard going because she is incredibly active, but I can live with it if I get enough sleep! The main feature of our lounge at the moment is a playpen full of toys, but at least she plays in it happily.