Has anyone retrained as a Barrister at 50?

[theclevercuttlefish]

I’ve been looking at the requirements and they don’t seem too onerous.

It's really competitive to get a pupillage, I know people who have been trying for years unsuccessfully, while working as paralegals. What do you do now?

I did my pupilage 20+ years ago -so appreciate my view is out of date - but I would say absolutely not.

Unless you’re a very niche exception (e.g. planning on practicing IP and have tonnes of relevant experience as a biochemist) I’d imagine you’d really struggle getting a pupilage.

doing the exams are easy peasy. Getting a pupilage is very hard. Getting a tenancy is all about your face fitting.

Thanks both of you who have replied!

Interesting and not surprising sadly .. but still..

@FebruaryUsername I’m a Psychologist. Self-employed. Pay is good, it’s flexible time wise. However I dislike it very much. Used to love it. Every day I work is tedious now.

What about psychotherapy instead of psychology?

God no. That’s the worst of it. Anyone seems to be ‘qualifying’ as psychotherapists these days. You don’t need a degree, Masters or doctorate in psychology to do a Psychotherapy qualification. Terrifying really. Too many unregulated ‘therapists’ about.

What type of psychology do you practice?

I have friend this who tried this at 50. He passed the exams without a problem but never came close to getting a pupilage. But he used the training to set up an HR consultancy advising mainly on the legal side and that was very successful

What appeals to you about becoming a barrister?

DH qualified in the 80s and as others have said, the pupillage and tenancy were the tough bits and it takes a while for the fees to roll in and to build a reputation, so I'd say you'd need 15 years to start making a proper go of it. DH's earnings didn't ramp up until he was about 35.

Have you thought about psychometric testing / consultancy for big corporates / alongside recruitment practices.

Can’t see how you would get a pupillage it’s hard enough for the youngsters

I'm a barrister, came from another career but changed younger (late 20s). I know some people who've joined profession late in life. All has exceptional careers first - senior civil servant giving advice to ministers regularly who went into administrative/govt law, consultant surgeon who went into medical law, professor of law who went into public law. I know a nurse who left the profession in her late 20s/early 30s and is now a very well regarded KC in an unrelated area, and a social worker who left that after about ten years and went into children's law. Most however join when they're in early 20s

It would be unusual to transfer in without an extremely successful career before. You're not, realistically, going to be compared to what other applicants (who are say 24) have achieved. You'll be compared to what barristers of your age have achieved, albeit in a different field. So perhaps if you're regularly published, that might be seen as similar to doing lots of high profile cases. If you have taught and trained others that might be pertinent. If you've won prestigious funding or awards that might be getting towards an equivalent of being a KC (50 is about the age where most people wanting to become a KC would be applying/appointed, perhaps a bit younger).

Also, perhaps it doesn't look onerous on paper, but you'd have to do a law degree (or at least a conversion course, 1 yr) then the Bar course (1 yr). You'd want to get the highest grades in both to increase chance of pupillage.

Then you'd need pupillage. This is where the bottleneck hits, there are way more applicants than spaces. For example we take 2 a year and we got about 400 applications this year iirc. Then you do that for a year and if you pass, you become a barrister. You also have to get tenancy, either at the chambers where you did your pupillage, or if they don't vote to keep you on, find another chambers and do another 6 months before a further vote!

Expensive and risky whether it would pay off. You could consider training as a mediator eg family cases

Well, to be fair, a psychotherapist does a very different job to a psychologist. I was a barrister but have retrained as a psychotherapist and love it and am very professionally successful. But you are right, I don't have a Masters in it, although I am professionally accredited. Definitely doesn't sound right for you though! Good luck.

Only a fraction of people who study law become a barrister. That is because it is very competitive.

@FrodoBiggins thanks for the info. Well done on making a successful career change work.

What made the 2/400 stand out in order to be offered a pupillage? I’m guessing most if not all had high exam scores.

Every single applicant for pupillage has exceptional academics. It’s all the stuff around the edges to make you stand out. I worked throughout my degree so had years of relevant experience. I worked abroad for a charity with poor prisoners. I took a gap year before bar school to make my CV stand out. In my day there were 900 applicants for 2 places. You need to be different and show real commitment. In 2002 one in 12 got pupillage.

I looked into retraining in law a couple of years ago in my mid-thirties. What put me off was the amount of law firms who want ridiculous A-level grades. I'm a qualified teacher, I have taught people to get As and A*s at A-level, I have quite a bit of postgrad, and have never, ever had my (perfectly adequate but not straight A stars) A-level grades held against me. I know they've got to filter people somehow but it seemed indicative of a system that doesn't actually value life experience, further qualifications, or the contributions of older adults. IDK if it's the same for barristers but I'd check carefully because otherwise if you were not a straight-A student at 18, you might find yourself unable to get anywhere due to something so silly and insignificant as your A-level grades from 30+ years ago. And even then they might hold it against you that you don't have A-stars when that grade didn't even exist when you were at school.

I went into tech instead.

I should add I now work for a firm doing a niche area of law. The trainee applicants all have firsts but less work experience as it’s harder to get nowadays but they still have done amazing things like represented their country in sport or ran their own businesses. It’s a big commitment of time to train a lawyer at the bar or solicitor from senior people in chambers or a firm. I would want to see evidence of your commitment to the law and believe you would stick around after we had invested so much resource into helping you qualify.

Thanks and you're welcome.

High exam scores wouldn't make someone stand out. We pretty much only get applicants from people with firsts and high 2:1s plus masters. Many have the BCL which is a specific masters level degree only Oxford offers. I would say our average applicant has a first, at least a merit at masters, a merit or distinction on GLD if they took that, and an Outstanding on the bar course. Contrary to poster above re A levels at law firms, I've never looked at A level results, don't care how good someone was as a child.

@Puppyteeth is* *spot on, it's what you do on top of that which sets you apart. Whether it's work or volunteering or publishing. We've recently had people who worked over summer or gap year on presidential campaigns, drafted Brexit legislation, worked in courts or tribunals as legal advisors, etc. I place more weight on paid work than voluntary because the former is more competitive but also more egalitarian.

Can I ask what makes you want to be a barrister?

High exam scores wouldn't make someone stand out

Absolutely, that’s why I asked, what did / does. Thank you for the additional tips. I’m aware it will be an uphill endeavour. But what worth having isn’t.

Why? I would like to make a more decisive difference to people’s lives, be a person they rely on to attain what’s best for them. Justice. On a personal level, still be self employed but be in a chambers environment. I’m thoroughly bored, and know I can’t slow down any more if it’s like this at 50. I’d rather speed up and learn, commit rather than wither away into a well paid but tedious (often annoying) and unchallenging / complacent wilderness for the next X years.

To be honest, even if you did get a pupillage you’d hate being a pupil ..

In the 90’s I spent an unconscionable amount of my time running errands that could patently have been dealt with remotely - so I do wonder how pupils and very junior tenants spend their time now, when AI must surely have taken over their roles.

If you can manage on your own money, not expecting to earn anything, you might find it an enjoyable adventure …

Our current pupils shadow their supervisor for the first 6 months, so do first drafts of pleadings/skeleton arguments, review evidence and present to supervisor, draft XX, and do research notes on the law. One was telling me the other day they did a research note for an ongoing Supreme Court case which supervisor used a lot of for part of the written submissions, which is cool. If you've seen any of the recent judgments about AI in the HC you'll see why we still do that ourselves!

In the second six they're of course doing their own cases too, so small claims and fast track trials and maybe some low value advisory work, or work through the Attorney General's JJ scheme

They're good reasons, and it is undoubtedly an interesting job. Given that you'll be 55 when you realistically qualify, assuming you get pupillage and tenancy basically immediately (which is difficult), and depending on when you want to retire, you are likely to spend the majority of your career at the Bar doing pretty boring low value stuff. I did do some work in the first 5 years I felt proud of but it was mostly slog. 5-10 years in it picked up, and now 10-15 I'm doing some extremely interesting stuff and it's likely to improve as time goes on. The pay starts shit/non-existent. At 5 years in I had a lot owed to me (aged debt) but very little in my account. It catches up but takes time.

Do you do clinical psychology work? If so, have you considered medico-legal work as an expert witness? It might be interesting in itself but also give you a closer view of the legal world.

Yup - all of that sounds pretty familiar, @FrodoBiggins!

But it’s a long time since I left the Bar - and I wouldn’t want to return at 50, for a whole host of reasons.

@ANagsHead Funny how things work out, isn’t it. One person’s meat is another’s poison. Treasure / trash. Ceiling / floor. Etc