Paleo and primal

[Daughteroughter]

I have been reading about paleo and primal diets has anyone tried them?

Deary me, I'm ranting again...

No, you are not ranting, Raw, it's good to hear that I am not the only one with "conspiracy theories" ;)

Think about it, (Western) medicine is treating symptoms, looking at the parts, not the whole. With that kind of tradition, it's no wonder most of the Western population believes there should be a pill for everything.

Are you me?!

Drug companies are not going to spend millions of dollars to prove that eating a natural, ancestral "clean" diet will prevent, reverse or improve these conditions in most people!

They would never voluntarily spend money that way. Why would they? Pharma spends the money on proving their drugs work, often trialled in our hospitals. I'm more curious as to why the NHS doesn't ask to trial some drugs against diet as well as placebo.

The other day someone with coeliac disease told me that they heard that there might be a tablet (drug) in the pipeline for coeliac, so they can eat bread and pasta! Sad thing is, if this is true, that it will probably be prescribed.

Apparently, it's true. This is what the University of Washington (center for Commercialization) has to say :

^UW?s Promising Therapeutic for Celiac Disease featured in ?Chemical and Engineering News?

Celiac disease is one of several diseases involving intolerance to dietary gluten protein that causes serious health problems. UW researcher Ingrid Swanson Pultz and Justin Siegel of the University of California at Davis are developing a promising therapeutic for celiac disease and gluten intolerance that was invented using advanced computational enzyme design. The result, KumaMax, breaks down gluten under the harsh conditions of the human stomach in less than an hour. This enzyme has tremendous potential as a clinical therapeutic.

Celiac disease is estimated to afflict approximately 1% of the population, including over 3 million Americans. The market for celiac disease is estimated to be greater than $512M in 2017 and $664M in 2019. An additional 9% of the population is thought to experience other negative health effects upon ingesting gluten^

I wonder who is sponsoring the research Big Pharma or Big Agriculture?

Favadi, unfortunately, the drug companies have the money to pay for research- but getting (non drug company) funding to show non drug interventions prevent, cure or control is difficult, very difficult.

I had heard the coeliac pill one before, btw, it wont be the 1% of the population who are diagnosed coeliacs who will end up being prescribed this, it will be the 30-40% of the population who are either ceoliac and don't know it, are in the process of developing it (can take decades), or who have antibodies at a level currently described as "negative", the diagnostic boundaries will be changed... and it is just as crazy as the situation with diabetes...

Rather than being given dietary advice to stop eating the thing that has making them ill (grains, carbohydrate) and return to a more natural clean diet, people are given medication to reduce their symptoms so that they can continue as before, and eat "normal" food like everyone else, maybe will appalling consequences for their long term health.

I read a pretty horrifying report a few months ago, blood tests on thousands of American teenagers showed that just under half fitted the diagnostic criteria for diabetes or prediabetis!

It is hard to over emphasise how abnormal this is in any kind of animal, having that level of chronic illness (showing the whole metabolic system is in disarray) in the young of a species, in this case, humans, shows something is very, very wrong indeed.

The response has been a big push to get pre diabetics onto drugs to delay the development of full diabetes, while continuing to eat "normal" food. 50-60% healthy grains! Oh yes!

Unfortunately, few realise, maybe don't want too either, how they are manipulated large food corporations and by bad pharma. Ben goldacre's book of the same name is an eyeopener!!!

I agree. There is a member of family who suffers with severe IBD and the advice is to do a FODMAP diet for a while and when she is better to slowly re-introduce the offending foods (alongside medication)!!! Just mad!
Not all hope is lost! Last time I went to my GP he asked me how I've managed for the previous 3 years without ordering my asthma inhalers and ulcer tablets, when I told him I removed gluten, his response was 'You wouldn't be the first!'. From further conversations, I believe he's fellow paleo! (unless my GP is your Dh, numbers are growing!)
Also, having been borderline anaemic for most of my life and very/severely anaemic in pregnancies, I now have HB counts of a 20 years old (yes! I know...Nobody check my ferritin?!)!

On a different note!

Today I went to the yearly local Uni 'Fine art end of BA/MA degree exhibition' and, instead of standard sandwiches/cup cakes, there were gluten-free cup cakes and veg stick and berries.
The exhibition and speeches/performances were excellent too!

Well I remember the day after Ds4 birth, they tested my haemoglobin and it was 12.something... They tested as I had a large blood loss in delivery). MW asked if I eat a lot of red meat, and I said yes. I then got lecture about that being good for my iron but unhealthy!!!!

Oh yy, I don't need reflux meds since ditching the grains, neither does Dh, or either of my parents (who have not ditched completely but eat mostly grain free). And the dozens of other improvements to Health we've noticed... Reduced medications, painkillers, and minor bugs and sniffles.

I can buy raw cold pressed coconut oil locally now, I think that product is a marker for ancestral clean diets, so I think more people are eating this way even in the wilds of Scotland!

Slightly off topic, but I thought this Jay Rayner article about food miles was interesting. I haven't read the second bit about abattoirs.

It's useful as the emphasis on locally grown, grass fed etc. in paleo and primal can just work out really expensive. Also it's not always feasible for me to eat organically, but reducing the levels of chemicals is still relevant.

Don't get me started on the Big Pharma rant! The access drug reps have to medical staff really annoys me. Some of the diabetes Pharma companies were forever offering me money to employ staff or send people on training courses.

The argument is by no means new, I remember reading on Mother Nature Network, but I believe it has the potential to alienate people into not caring or expressing the concept in the form that 'it does not matter where the food comes from'.

Explaining this to people who have built entire patterns of behaviour around the idea of seasonality is tough. Nevertheless, they do need to be told
This infuriates me! I've spent years creating an attractive but edible back garden. I don't use any fertilizers (other than my chickens) and I don't use herbicides or pesticides or even poly-tunnels. During the summer and early autumn I do not buy fruit and very little vegetables. Maybe if more people put their gardens back into use... :)
I'm not going to stop buying apples, lamb or cheese from my local small farms and import them from New Zealand: It would be environmentally disastrous, not because of the food miles but because the local land would become disused to be transformed into yet another cement jungle, whilst deforesting somewhere else in the world under the false logo of 'carbon foot print friendly'! [grr]
Farmers have always grown what grows best on their land and not all are committed to the supermarkets! I couldn't care less how straight my asparagus is and my local farmer is not ashamed of selling me a perfectly natural wonky asparagus or a cabbage with caterpillar bites! Come the autumn his apples (or mine) are not all the same size!
I'm also not sure how much nitrogen you would need on the Cumbrian or the Welsh hills?! Who would cut all that grass without the sheep and cows?

The one point I agree with him is that 'it's not that simple'.

Sorry for the rant! I'm not sure I should read the abattoirs section?

Today we have enjoyed a beautiful lunch from the garden.

Fennel (herb not bulb), borage, garlic mustard, chives, wild rocket, mace, angelica and lemon balm leaves thinly chopped, served with chopped egg whites and dressed with runny yolks. My cheat: a couple of shop bought tomatoes to take the dryness away and to add some tang to an otherwise spicy but not hot taste. :)

If potatoes and rice aren't paleo or primal how come so many paleo/primal recipes say it is ok to use potato or rice flour in things instead of wheat flour?

misscph Would your DH eat these sausages?

Also Heck sausages

Graig all meat pork sausages

Graig 98% pork sausages

Waitrose chorizo style sausages

Waitrose pork and herb sausages

Oh and these but they do contain tapioca.

My understanding is that potatoes are paleo but they are less dense in nutritional value than other roots. Some people would argue that, although we produce amylase to break down the starch in potato, we are not that adept. Also, the potato is part of the nightshades family and some people think there might be a link between the nightshades and arthritis due to the capsaicin. Strangely, capsaicin is used in the treatment of arthritis. Medically, there are people who have defective capsaicin receptors but I'm not sure research has shown conclusive evidence to an 'arthritis' link.
Personally, I enjoy a potato or two but when I was loosing weight I severely restricted potato consumption because of its high starch (carbs) content.

As for the rice, I'll let Mark explain.

Oh right. I first heard about paleo here and so have always avoided rice and potatoes.

Has anyone tried this salt cured bacon from Ocado?

Found something similar at green pasture farms

Mark talks about the glycoalkaloid content of potato as the responsible culprit to joint pain.

I remember looking into it because ds can't stand the taste of sweet potato or parsnips, he doesn't like the fatty bits on meat- even when I make the crackling, he'll only eats the skin and scrapes off the fat. He doesn't like butter (unless in baking) and only eats cheese as cheese on toast (aubergines or courgettes slices, instead of bread).
Being a growing boy who is super active, I needed something to feed him and prevent him from eating all the honey in one go! There are only some many times one can eat coconut milk or cream in a week! :)

Just to put into perspective what a 12 year boy can eat: ds came back 1/2 hour ago from a weekend of rowing (16h +) and so far he has finished some walnuts (maybe 50g), one whole pineapple, two bananas and two oranges. I suspect he'll be wanting potatoes tonight, if he is still awake for dinner!

I think with both potato and white rice (white being a much better choice than brown!), you need to be guided by your own reaction to them, I tend to use them as fairly benign "cheat meal" options, regular consumption makes me sluggish and bloated but as an occasional thing, they are ok ( and so much better than anything grain based).

HOWEVER! While you are wanting to lose weight, or if you are not very active, you really need to watch the amounts - ok for occasional cheats does not mean a bit with every meal

Active kids though... Can eat a lot more carb than us adults.

I haven't tried either bacons, nappy but we tried some artisan bacon from a localish butcher and it was a bit too sweet for us. It is very rare that any of us crave bacon but on occasions I have cooked Parma ham. Parma ham and pork belly mix is great in recipes which would call for bacon, such as Carbonara or Amatrice sauce.

Raw I had to really cheat yesterday.
Ds was 'dying' for battered aubergines, borage leaves and flowers and dh was agreeing with him. I made the batter with some rice flour and dh's home-made beer (sprouted barley and malt). I didn't dare have any because I really react to tiniest amount of gluten these days but the boys loved it. Borage is gorgeus just fried any way (in walnut oil).

I had used coconut flour and egg batter before and it tastes okayish with aubergines and fish but it's a disaster with mushrooms, flowers and leaves.

Does anyone know a nice delicate paleo batter/tempura recipe?

Hi,

I've been reading this thread and want to join in! I am following Mark's Daily Apple recommendations for a primal life. I say following... we are on day 2! The whole family are doing it. My husband and I plus our 4 yr old son. The baby is already primal as she is exclusively breastfed still!

Until now we have been eating 'healthily', ie, lots of fresh veg, some meat, dairy and fish, and erm... plentlynof wholegrains! Alongside far too many treats in recent months. But we did have a new baby. We exercise just about enough, could do with more, especially dh. I do lots of walking and hiking. But neither of usfeel well. We are overweight, lethargic, dh has depresssion, we have aches and bloatedness and indigestion and constipation. We (embarrassingly!) are only on our late 20's!!

So we are switching to primal in a bid to feel healthly! Feel positive so far. We are doing the primal blueprint exercises too. Really highlights how unfit we are!

Had salmon with roast veg and rocket and avacado salad for dinner. Am planning pork tonight. Ds ate everything but the rocket. Does anyone have any tips regarding children and also breastfeeding? Ds' s favourite meals are pasta based! And he can be a bit fussy at times...

Hi ballby and welcome aboard. :)

The famous pasta turns up again! Courgette ribbons (using a potato peeler), cross cut julienne greens, cabbage or even lettuce are great substitute to use with pasta sauces. Cauliflower rice is also lovely with pasta sauces and curries alike.

Saying that, ds saw a lot of pasta being served whilst away and this morning asked me if I could invent a paleo one. As I am no culinary genius...I'm going to try this one.
Assuming I can find the ingredients, the only question is whether I'm I going to make salmon and asparagus ravioli or the pork sugo using the fennel herb, (before it over takes my garden!) and hyssop (Thyme still recovering from the snow).

Of to the shops in search of ingredients!